Countering your Super-Heavies

[Frostglaive]

A buddy of mine and I are going to have a 6k Apoc game this week. I know for a fact that he is bringing his 3 super-heavy tanks, however I don't know which variants yet.

 

I know he has a Baneblade with a swappable Hellhammer turret, a Shadowsword, and a Stormlord. That's how they are all assembled. However, since our local meta is pretty loose with the count-as models, he may bring different variants.

 

My questions are: Can someone please explain the differences between the various Guard lords of war (codex only)? Me being an AdMech player, I feel as if my best bet to counter them is simply shoot them down with neutron lasers. But at the very least, I'd like to know what I'm up against and if there's any other viable strategies to counter them.

[librisrouge]

Our super-heavy tanks are basically Tanks+1. All of the weaknesses of tanks are basically still present in our super-heavies, with the exception that we can shoot if still in melee.

 

With that in mind, countering them is basically a task of shooting them. Lots. We may have a nice number of wounds, but no invulnerable and no way to get one (that I know of.) This means that we don't like things like neutron lasers one bit but we also can't really be locked in combat.

 

What will likely surprise you though is how good in melee they are. The Crush Them stratagem means they'll likely be hitting you on 2s, with S8 and -2 to AP...on 9 attacks if they're whole. I've killed quite a few things in my deployment zone before. It's fun.

 

If he's bringing 3 super heavies, bring nine neutron lasers.

[Jolemai]

 

What will likely surprise you though is how good in melee they are. The Crush Them stratagem means they'll likely be hitting you on 2s, with S8 and -2 to AP...on 9 attacks if they're whole. I've killed quite a few things in my deployment zone before. It's fun.

 

 

 

Cheers for that tidbit. Going up against a bunch of Guard SHVs in a few weeks and was going to charge them with my BA...

[Feral_80]

I think your best bet is to go Stygies VIII. -1 hit massively (excessively) hurts Guard, and it is your best way (although quite unfair, in my opinion  ) to counter 3 superheavies. Your opponent will really hate you for turning them into super-expensive but very inaccurate, BS 5+ base platforms. They will not dish out as much damage as he expects, for sure. And once damaged past half wounds, they will simply be useless.

 

That's why, if he's smart, he'll run them forward and just try to crush you in melee/shoot at you under 12" from turn 1. Slow them down with cheap units and everything that you can think of, and keep something that he'll be afraid of enough to think twice before throwing the tanks towards you. I'd try a couple of units of 2 Kastelan robots each, armed with fists. They really hurt in melee and can be hidden relatively easily.

 

And obviously, leave Knights at home. There are high chances that he'll bring a Shadowsword, and you don't really want to do him a favour by offering the ideal target.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Feral_80

[Frostglaive]

So here's what I've learned from him. All 3 tanks will be run as Banehammers. He wanted to try something different out and I was completely okay with him doing Mark of Dave(miniwargaming reference) on them. Can anyone tell me the statline of its main gun? If you're allowed to, I don't know if stats can be posted on these forums.

 

The way the table is going to be set up is 2 4'x6' tables arranged so they're 6'x8'. 24" deployment zones Dawn of War style, so a 24" no man's land. I can 100% guarantee he'll have all three tanks sitting as far away from me as possible. He LOVES his super heavies and is terrified of losing them. So he won't run them in CC. He'll have them behind layers of Guard and whatever cover he can. Plus he knows I enjoy running alpha strike-style lists so he'll be prepared for my deep striking units (not just AdMech, but Custodes and even a few inquisitors as well for this game)

 

And while I would love to have 9 neutron lasers going against him, I unfortunately only own 4....... for now :)

DEFINITELY going to be running Stygies VIII. I'd be a fool not to. That -1 to hit against me has screwed him over so many times now. And with the exception of his deep-striking scions and me deep striking stuff right into his face, he's no way to counter it with the way he plays.

[patchestheclown]

The banehammer uses a tremor cannon which is 60" range 3d6 shots, S8, AP -2, D3 damage. Nothing much to write home about but its special rule is what makes it really fun (and a great counter to Magnus and Morty) Units hit by this thing HALVE their movement speed AND cannot advance in the following movement phase!!!

 

The other notable thing about the banehammer is that it can carry up to 20 dudes and 10 of them can fire out of the hatch. This makes it an ideal platform for say a spearhead detachment of 3 x 3 HWT  all with lascannons and a company commander. All 9 of them can shoot out the back!! Also people can load up with plasma platoon squads or SWS

 

It feels strange to wish you luck in killing guard but good luck :)

[Frostglaive]

Thanks. I have a bad feeling I'm gonna need all the luck I can get. We both just exchanged our final army lists for Saturday....... there are a lot of lascannons aiming at me and I don't think I'll be getting Turn 1 unless I get lucky with the dice.

 

Thanks for the advice, guys! I'll let you know how it goes!

[ImperialSquishiness]

Whatever you do, if you're going to charge them in combat aim for charges against multiple tanks. We have a stratagem to Overwatch on 5s. Last night My Hellhammer got charged by a custodes shield captain with storm shield, valoris, the 3+ invun jetbike and a single alarms terminator. Only Valoris made it to combat, but with 1 wound left.

[MrZakalwe]

Yeah if he's going Mordian with another vehicle nearby and using the strat he can overwatch on 4s for one of them which if damaged it will actually be more accurate on overwatch than on his own turn.

[Frostglaive]

I'm 80% sure I know how he's going to split up his regiments. Super heavies will be Catachan to get that reroll 1d6 when determining shots. His Brigade will be Cadian so he can reroll 1's (because I know he'll barely move an inch, at least for the first few turns). He has a scion Patrol, so militarum tempestus obviously. And he's also bringing 2000pts worth of marines that I would not be surprised if he makes them Raven Guard purely out of spite.

[Frostglaive]

Won the game. Ended turn 5 with him calling it due to time constraints.

Three objectives on the table. I held one, he had the second, and I knocked him off the third while killing his warlord. We ignored first blood and linebreaker. Took out 2 of his Banehammers, crippled the 3rd, and destroyed most of his army. Granted, I lost a ton as well, but I was still sitting in a much better position than him at the time. It was a brutal match, but so much fun.

 

Figured you guys would like to know how it went. Thanks again for the advice!