Getting Started

[Buggane]

Hi All

 

I've recently made the decision to switch from Raven Guard to Blood Angels for the army i 'started' last year but haven't made much progress on (don't have kids)....i've decided i'm much more inclined to the in your face aggression of the blood angels playstyle, plus they have some amazing unique units.

 

Anyway, I had a few questions as I am starting fresh. I'm going to reuse almost everything (sorry ironclad dreadnought) i'd picked up for the Raven Guard, but wanted to check a few things:

 

- Should I keep my start collecting space marines? I won't be running tacs so the squad would be reinforcements for devastators so I don't mind if they aren't all in nipple armor. And the dread might be useful as fire support, even if BA can't run vens.

 

- I have a stormtalon/stormhawk. Is it worth running as a stormhawk or would the ground support be more useful?

 

- Can you run sanguinary guard and death company and still maintain a playable list? I see a lot of lists with one or the other. I like the idea of using the death company to carve a hole in the enemy line and then the SG going in for the killing blow...

 

- I have some aggressors, do these mesh well with BA playstyle? I didn't know if they would be too slow, inceptors seem a better fit.

 

I would promise some pictures of my first blood angel but i'm super slow...

 

Cheers

 

Bug

Edited March 8, 2018 by Buggane

[Brother Crimson]

1- tactical and devastators can always fil some gaps you have in the list.

 

2- if you can remove the face plate of the dreadnought and buy a furioso dreadnought kit you change his face plate and arm to make a librarian dreadnought and build a furioso in addition. Furioso are just ok as unit but still fun and librarian dreadnought is as cool as a dreadnought gets.

 

3-i dont really like flyers but lots of people do.

 

4- you can definitely field DC and sanguinary Guard in a 2000 points list.

 

5- agressors with the relic banner are annoying as hell however they are expensive and in that manner leaves less place for DC and sanguinary guard.

 

Blood angels plays well both as super aggro melee and as standard marine with countercharge power or herohammer. The important thing is to find the play style you want and choose the characters for that specific style. You can easily play lists with drastic differences that will play differently.

[dread05]

What do you mean by "should I keep the start collecting space marines" exactly? Do you have the option to trade it for a start collecting blood angels? Or trade it in general? If not, building 2 5 man tactical squads isnt a bad idea.

[Thoridon]

The Tacticals from the Start Collecting set will still come in handy even if you don't want to actualy run Tacticals. As you said, you can use them as extra Devastator bodies. The same applies to any other Marine unit - if you buy a Death Company box and then want more of them, their kit comes with so many extra bits you never use them all on a single squad of 5. You can use extra BA shoulder pads and weapons from that kit to add to the Tactical bodies and get yourself extra DC that way. Jump Packs would be the only issue there if you want them flying but the point remains... as Marine kits are interchangeable, extra bits are always useful I have that box myself still mostly unbuilt and keep 'borrowing' bits as I build units (I took the Terminator Captain's sword for my JP Librarian the other week). The Ironclad will be built for an allied detachment unless I convert it into a BA variant.

 

I han't really comment on the Stormhawk as I have no fliers.

 

Some people think there's only room for one, as both units benefit most from being in a large squad with character support. It can be hard to squeeze that in smaller games and still have space for other stuff. There's no universal answer and it will depend on what your opponents typically use but they can certainly work in the same list. I ran a large squad of each at the weekend and both did great - 10 SG with Dante, Sanguinor and a Priest tanked an insane amount of attacks and tore through a significant portion of the enemy force that was thrown at them after starting on the table and charging into the centre to act as a magnet. I then had 15 DC with Lemartes in reserve who waited until the table opened up and then dropped in to charge and nuke a key enemy unit. The rest of my army was mostly on the sideline that game providing a distraction or chipping in with some supporting fire, as those two big units did most of the work.

 

That said, I could try the same setup against a different army (or even the same opponent on a different day) and it might go horribly wrong, but this time they worked brilliantly together. I also don't play competitive tournaments, so I'm not facing top end min-maxed lists.

 

I've been tempted by Aggressors and they certainly could be used, it just depends what you want the feel of your army to be. I decided I want my BA to stay focused as a fast moving force so I'm not going to run any (for now) but I am building an allied Imperial Fists detachment where they would feel more thematic. That's just the same personal reason as not running Devastators in my BA force at the moment, not that they're bad for us.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Thoridon

[Buggane]

What do you mean by "should I keep the start collecting space marines" exactly? Do you have the option to trade it for a start collecting blood angels? Or trade it in general? If not, building 2 5 man tactical squads isnt a bad idea.

I was going to sell it and buy the start collecting BA instead, its still in the box so i would probably get almost retail for it. I think that i've been convinced to keep it to mine for extras for my devs and death company, etc

 

 

Some people think there's only room for one, as both units benefit most from being in a large squad with character support. It can be hard to squeeze that in smaller games and still have space for other stuff. There's no universal answer and it will depend on what your opponents typically use but they can certainly work in the same list. I ran a large squad of each at the weekend and both did great - 10 SG with Dante, Sanguinor and a Priest tanked an insane amount of attacks and tore through a significant portion of the enemy force that was thrown at them after starting on the table and charging into the centre to act as a magnet. I then had 15 DC with Lemartes in reserve who waited until the table opened up and then dropped in to charge and nuke a key enemy unit. The rest of my army was mostly on the sideline that game providing a distraction or chipping in with some supporting fire, as those two big units did most of the work.

 

Do you have the rest of this list to share? I've been playing around and managed to build what i thought looked like a decent compromise having SG, DC and some supporting characters with a bit of firepower to anchor off of, i'd be interested to see yours to compare

[dread05]

I mean, if you can get retail for it, do it. The tactical bits have a lot more iconography on them, and the baal predator is better than a random dreadnought.

[Buggane]

I assume I could also do the trick with the furioso faceplate on the ven dread in the start collecting box to get two ba dreads out of the furiso/librarian box

[Calistarius]

I can say that the Stormhawk is a nice source of anti-flyers.  With 7 Flyrant lists out there, or anything else that relies so heavily on <FLY> *cough* like myself *cough* it can be good to have.  I know it's frowned upon by most, but hitting ground units on 4+ isn't really all that detrimental if its coming from  just one model.  Hell, there are armies that would love to have BS 4+.  I used a Stormraven, 'hawk, and 'talon in my last game.  It wasn't ultra competitive.  It was fun though.  

 

I feel like the others have addressed your other questions enough that anything I have to add is just redundant.  That being said, you're making the right choice!  Red one's go faster and we hit harder ;)

[Buggane]

I can say that the Stormhawk is a nice source of anti-flyers.  With 7 Flyrant lists out there, or anything else that relies so heavily on <FLY> *cough* like myself *cough* it can be good to have.  I know it's frowned upon by most, but hitting ground units on 4+ isn't really all that detrimental if its coming from  just one model.  Hell, there are armies that would love to have BS 4+.  I used a Stormraven, 'hawk, and 'talon in my last game.  It wasn't ultra competitive.  It was fun though.  

 

I feel like the others have addressed your other questions enough that anything I have to add is just redundant.  That being said, you're making the right choice!  Red one's go faster and we hit harder ;)

And obviously red flyers look the best...

[Paladin777]

And go faster!

 

Wait... wrong forum...

[Calistarius]

Red flyers looks so good. But may I suggest a Black Death Company themed Stormraven as a break from the red vehicles. It looks excellent when flanked by the other two.

 

I used painters tape to get my red lines straight on the wings. I’m quite pleased with it.

[dread05]

I've seen black DC vehicles again and they look indeed nice next to the red ones, but; Do Blood Angels actually paint them in DC colours? Never read it in the lore. Tho there was a black rhino in 7th edition codex I think.

[Thoridon]

 

Do you have the rest of this list to share? I've been playing around and managed to build what i thought looked like a decent compromise having SG, DC and some supporting characters with a bit of firepower to anchor off of, i'd be interested to see yours to compare

 

It might not compare too well as we both kept things relatively simple. I ran no vehicles at all and the Ork opponent ran mostly infantry with light vehicles (bikes, buggies etc.). There were no fliers or heavy vehicles in this game. We also played without command points and stratagems as it would be unfair to unload all our fun extra stuff before the Ork codex is out but it would've fit as 3 detachments (Battalion, Supreme Command and Patrol (Flesh Tearers)). That said, here's roughly what I used:

 

Dante

Sanguinor

Priest with JP, power fist and storm bolter

10x SG with swords, 4 inferno pistols and 6 angelus

 

Lemartes

15x Death Company (5 hammers, 5 bolter+sword, 5 bolter+chainsword)

 

Mephiston

Corbulo

 

3x Tac Squads (1 grav cannon, 1 missile launcher)

 

Gabriel Seth

2x Tac Squads (1 dual plasma special+combi, 1 heavy flamer)

 

It wasn't built to a set round number like 2000 or 2500 points, it was to match the value of what the Ork player wanted to use. If I was to replicate it for an exact 2000 there'd be some adjustment, and I'd also likely adapt it if I had no idea what I'd be facing or knew there'd be less bodies and more heavy stuff to face.

 

I mostly used it as a test for the two big groups together (SG and DC) and in this game at least they couldn't have performed any better.

Edited March 9, 2018 by Thoridon

[Xenith]

Personally, I'd keep the marine box set - I prefer some of the more plain marines in my units. The TDA captain and dread are also useful - if you get a furioso dread kit, then you can mix and match arms to do what you like with them both. Same applies to the ironclad.

 

I'd go with the stormhawk - the assault cannons and heavy bolters shoot troops as normal. It puts out more firepower than a Baal predator, moves faster, and costs fewer points. 

[Brother Crimson]

I've seen black DC vehicles again and they look indeed nice next to the red ones, but; Do Blood Angels actually paint them in DC colours? Never read it in the lore. Tho there was a black rhino in 7th edition codex I think.

In the official paint guide there is a black stormraven and rhino with DC markings when they present the lost.

[dread05]

 

I've seen black DC vehicles again and they look indeed nice next to the red ones, but; Do Blood Angels actually paint them in DC colours? Never read it in the lore. Tho there was a black rhino in 7th edition codex I think.

In the official paint guide there is a black stormraven and rhino with DC markings when they present the lost.

 

 

Yes, that. I thought it was in the 7th edition codex, sorry.

[Buggane]

Personally, I'd keep the marine box set - I prefer some of the more plain marines in my units. The TDA captain and dread are also useful - if you get a furioso dread kit, then you can mix and match arms to do what you like with them both. Same applies to the ironclad.

 

I'd go with the stormhawk - the assault cannons and heavy bolters shoot troops as normal. It puts out more firepower than a Baal predator, moves faster, and costs fewer points. 

 

Aren't they shooting at the -1 for moving with heavy weaponry? The Stormtalon shoots troops as normal because the +1 strafing run counteracts the -1 heavy weapon, i'd probably run it with lascannons instead of the heavy bolters though to provide some more anti tank

[Karhedron]

I've seen black DC vehicles again and they look indeed nice next to the red ones, but; Do Blood Angels actually paint them in DC colours? Never read it in the lore. Tho there was a black rhino in 7th edition codex I think.

There was a black Storm Raven shown in 7th (it might have been in the Angel's Blade book). I have a pair of Stormtalons that are black simply because they were cheap and already sprayed black when I got them. Rather than faff about stripping or repainting them, I just added a few red details and here and there to make the Death Company.

 

Now obviously you don't want suicidal nutcases piloting your aircraft but my justification is that they were painted black to honour the loss of their pilots to the black rage and their machine spirits are still in mourning.

 

If in doubt, always remember the first rule of modelling. "They're my models so I'll paint them how I like!"

[Karhedron]

The Stormtalon shoots troops as normal because the +1 strafing run counteracts the -1 heavy weapon, i'd probably run it with lascannons instead of the heavy bolters though to provide some more anti tank

Agreed Lascannons and Assault Cannonns provide some serious firepower. It costs about as much as a Predator and is more mobile. The reduced toughness is really only relevant vs S6/7 weapons. Lascannnons, missile launchers, Brightlances etc will wound both on a 3+ regardless. And the -1 to hit for being Supersonic can be better protection than the extra point of toughness against these weapons.