Entry level game sizes?

[Wargamer]

Quick and easy - what's the lowest points cost where, in your opinion, 30K is worth playing? For reference, the people who are likely to take part are probably going to all play Legions (possibly even all Loyalist Legions!) without much in the way of auxilia, Mechanicum, etc. Armies are almost certainly going to be using Calth or Prospero as a core.

 

This is being asked because I have a circle of friends who are interested, but all put off by the price tags of Forgeworld. :P

[ProsperoStands]

IMO 1500 points is the minimum level for HH. That said the Centurion game format is great and is good for 1000 points.

[Hesh Kadesh]

The entry level plastic box sets from GW are fantastic for starting the game. Combine with the free Zone Mortalis rules (expanded in Book 1 and Book 3) and you have an excellent baseline for fast, quick games.

 

Each set split 50/50 gives you a decent set of kit. Most of it is useable also,at higher levels of play. I'd honestly set up a Tail of X Painters competition between you all. Each month, increase your army by 250pts a month say.

[Brofist]

Our league plays Tactical Strike where you end up with 10-20 models and 250-400 points worth of stuff. If you're looking to get people into the game it's a good way to start!

[Wargamer]

It's not the rules they need selling on. We're all long-term 40K fans who started in 3rd and 4th. 8th Edition has brought us all back to 40K, and with 30K being a lot easier to enter with Calth and Prospero there's been mutterings on Facebook about picking it up.

 

Really, price is the only issue. We can still remember when £60 got you a 3,000 point army, the paints, the rulebooks and the bus fare to the store and back (uphill both ways, naturally!), so £60 for a 5-man Legionary unit seems a tad steep! 

[Hesh Kadesh]

Zone Mortalis, or Victory Is Vengeance is where the game works best with small armies. Any half of the GW plastic into sets gives you plenty to play either.

 

Points per £, a Primarch, a pair of Terminator Squads, and some Spartans gets you 2000pts, but it kinda sucks.

[Qkhitai]

You can just about squeeze 1500 points from the Betrayal at Calth box set (not sure about Prospero), but I'd also recommend 500-1000 points Zone Mortalis as a start - Blood in the Void in particular is super fun for recreating some iconic battles. Forge World prices (and resin) are also something that deter me, but there are plenty of bits you can pull from the main 40k range to add to your Heresy army; Chaos Possessed as Gal Vorbak, Black Templar upgrades for Imperial Fists Templar Brethren, Sanguinary Guard jetpacks for Assault Marines etc. So don't let Forge World prices put you off starting a Horus Heresy army, you can totally still do it on a budget!

[Brad_hutcho]

If you're not offended by a little swearing, I'd suggest checking out the Outer Circle on YouTube. He's doing a series at the moment on getting started with each legion by legion number. Ultra marines just dropped yesterday so he's up to XIII (and since the World Eaters have already been done that's all that matter lol). The whole emphasis is on building a legion on a budget, and most of his builds revolve around the Calth box set

[Wargamer]

Yeah, I've discovered him recently. :)

[Noserenda]

Yarrr plastics have made getting into things a lot simpler a box (Or half) plus some upgrade kits and maybe a special unit or tank will give you a solid start and you can expand from there :) 

[Laughingman]

If you're not offended by a little swearing, I'd suggest checking out the Outer Circle on YouTube. He's doing a series at the moment on getting started with each legion by legion number. Ultra marines just dropped yesterday so he's up to XIII (and since the World Eaters have already been done that's all that matter lol). The whole emphasis is on building a legion on a budget, and most of his builds revolve around the Calth box set

 

I find some of his positions elitist and contrarian for the sake of being contrarian... But the actual stuff about HH is ok...

 

Cityfight, Strategic raid, ZM, etc are all reasonable alternatives to big point games.

 

The OP appears put off by forgeworld prices... Fear not, You can build a viable army with as little forgeworld stuff as possible, Possibly just the Books and a handful of upgrade sprues. Many vehicles can be converted to look like there 30K counterparts with relatively little effort, with conversion kits out of places like Blood and Skulls industries (my experience is outside of official GW sponsored events, stores, etc  nobody cares if its 3rd party, rule of cool reigns supreme).

[Quixus]

Our league plays Tactical Strike where you end up with 10-20 models and 250-400 points worth of stuff. If you're looking to get people into the game it's a good way to start!

Would you mind telling me where I can find that game mode?

 

It's not the rules they need selling on. We're all long-term 40K fans who started in 3rd and 4th. 8th Edition has brought us all back to 40K, and with 30K being a lot easier to enter with Calth and Prospero there's been mutterings on Facebook about picking it up.

Don't forget that the HH rules are based on 7th ed. and not 8th. 8th editions is a lot simpler (some say dumbed down) than 7th.

 

If you're not offended by a little swearing, I'd suggest checking out the Outer Circle on YouTube. He's doing a series at the moment on getting started with each legion by legion number. Ultra marines just dropped yesterday so he's up to XIII (and since the World Eaters have already been done that's all that matter lol). The whole emphasis is on building a legion on a budget, and most of his builds revolve around the Calth box set

Sounds interesting. Too bad I will still have to wait for the legion I am most likely to use in HH

 

The OP appears put off by forgeworld prices... Fear not, You can build a viable army with as little forgeworld stuff as possible, Possibly just the Books and a handful of upgrade sprues. Many vehicles can be converted to look like there 30K counterparts with relatively little effort, with conversion kits out of places like Blood and Skulls industries (my experience is outside of official GW sponsored events, stores, etc  nobody cares if its 3rd party, rule of cool reigns supreme).

Most of the 40k patterns of armor and vehicles were around during the heresy, too. So Mars pattern Rhinos or Indomitus TDA and PA marks up to VI (not sure about VII) can exist in the HH if you are on a budget. It is more likely that stuff you buy for the Heresy cannot be used in 40k than the other way around, however such relics can even be used in 40K if you jump through a couple of hoops (IIRC no more relics in a detachment than regular units of the same battlefield role).

[Wargamer]

 

Most of the 40k patterns of armor and vehicles were around during the heresy, too. So Mars pattern Rhinos or Indomitus TDA and PA marks up to VI (not sure about VII) can exist in the HH if you are on a budget. It is more likely that stuff you buy for the Heresy cannot be used in 40k than the other way around, however such relics can even be used in 40K if you jump through a couple of hoops (IIRC no more relics in a detachment than regular units of the same battlefield role).

 

Lets be fair though, you won't get Mk II, V or VI on a budget. I had to carefully arrange a lot of people's Christmas gift lists to get myself a single Mk VI Devastator squad! Why oh why did I decide my Chapter is supposed to use Corvus!

 

...Anyway, sideline over. :P I don't know why, but I really don't like Indomitus, especially not for Heresy. I'm not sure how viable Cata are in HH rules though. I may have a squad with completely the wrong loadout for 8th (twin Lightning Claws!) that I'm hoping would work in HH / 7th.

[Hesh Kadesh]

Units you categorically cannot represent with a plastic 40K kit basically is relegated to vehicles, Primarchs and the occasional legion unique unit, and a few 30K specific upgrades.

 

Between Predators, Land Raiders, Box Dreadnoughts, Rhino's, Drop Pods, Land Speeders, and access to other 7E Imperial Armour vehicles as a Lord of War, you're pretty much good to go.

[Quixus]

Lets be fair though, you won't get Mk II, V or VI on a budget. I had to carefully arrange a lot of people's Christmas gift lists to get myself a single Mk VI Devastator squad! Why oh why did I decide my Chapter is supposed to use Corvus!

There are quite a few Corvus parts in the various marines boxes, well legs torsos and helmets mostly, I am not sure about arms and backpacks though. Not enough to make them exclusively but still. Spread some ravenguard bits around and you should get more models out of it than you are supposed to.

  

...Anyway, sideline over. I don't know why, but I really don't like Indomitus, especially not for Heresy. I'm not sure how viable Cata are in HH rules though. I may have a squad with completely the wrong loadout for 8th (twin Lightning Claws!) that I'm hoping would work in HH / 7th.

I'm not saying that you should use Indomitus in HH just that the pattern was available back then and I understand not wanting that pattern in 30K.

Before GW made the Cataphracti and Tartators models there were quite a few conversions for Cataphracti armor which already existed in the artwork.

I used these pads and helmets 1, 2, and 5 from this batch on indomitus bodies to make them look cooler in 40K. I bet if you added some plasicard to the legs and maybe some GS pteruges you could make a decent cataphracti substitute, but the savings are reduced. Unfortunately the anvil pads aren't available at the moment.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Quixus

[Laughingman]

 Even forgeworld only vehicles can be reasonably proxied/converted  via kits/bits from Kromlech, Blood and Skulls industries, etc. I've seen several effective conversions for Phobos deimos  pattern predators, Storm-hammer Storm blade  super heavy tanks, Whirlwind scorpius tanks, etc. That look the part, without costing a kidney or two.... 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Laughingman

[Quixus]

Phobos? Don't you mean the other Mars moon for the Predator pattern?

Edited March 11, 2018 by Quixus

[Gorgoff]

Quick and easy - what's the lowest points cost where, in your opinion, 30K is worth playing? For reference, the people who are likely to take part are probably going to all play Legions (possibly even all Loyalist Legions!) without much in the way of auxilia, Mechanicum, etc. Armies are almost certainly going to be using Calth or Prospero as a core.

 

This is being asked because I have a circle of friends who are interested, but all put off by the price tags of Forgeworld. :P

800 points to starts. Basically what you find in the Betrayal at Calth box.

[Qkhitai]

Don't forget the old RT/2nd edition era Rhinos/Land Raiders/Predators etc - they double up fantastically as Heresy vehicles. I picked up a fair few myself off eBay, they're not as pricey as you might imagine.

[Spiritual Liege]

Zone Mortalis, or Victory Is Vengeance is where the game works best with small armies. Any half of the GW plastic into sets gives you plenty to play either.

 

Points per £, a Primarch, a pair of Terminator Squads, and some Spartans gets you 2000pts, but it kinda sucks.

I don't think it sucks, Primarch-wings look awesome. 

[Hesh Kadesh]

 

Zone Mortalis, or Victory Is Vengeance is where the game works best with small armies. Any half of the GW plastic into sets gives you plenty to play either.

Points per £, a Primarch, a pair of Terminator Squads, and some Spartans gets you 2000pts, but it kinda sucks.

 

I don't think it sucks, Primarch-wings look awesome.

Gameplay is :cuss though. Get kited by a decent player, can't play objectives, and ruins the fun for less competitive players who lack a Primarch themselves.

 

Primarchs should never be taken unless you're playing primarch vs primarch, and at that stage you're left with Power Creep Primarchs dicking on Book 1's.

 

Primarchs are as damaging for a meta as Custodes, Knights or a Thatguy mechanicum player spamming bigbots.

 

By the time it is said and done, primarchs essentially make the game un fun, and overcentralising, and any decent meta leaves them on the side, making the Primarch as an expensive paperweight. Don't be the first guy to ruin the game for the sake of being cheap.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Hesh Kadesh