Deredeo + Predators / Wisdom of Ancient + Killshot

[9x19 Parabellum]

Ok, so I really want to try a 3x Autocannon Predator list to push out that sweet dakka in conjunction with Killshot.

 

One of the things I've heard about/concerned with is a single predator getting taken out too quick to leverage the stratagem.

 

So that got me to the Deredeo dreadnought with Atomantic Pavaise shield for a standing 5++ 6" invuln save.  I play RG so that Deredeo would get a -1 to be hit in addition to his 5++, so hopefully he'll last the first round of shooting too. 

 

My HQ's would be a Lt. to reroll wounds, and 2x Techmarines (going for a Spearhead and Battalion for 7 CPs, so need 3 HQs) to repair all my armor.

 

Anyone have any thoughts on this? 

[The Unseen]

You'll want a 4th predator to ensure you still have killshot if you don't go first.

Also, adding a bare bones captain is better than relying on wisdom of the Ancients each turn.

The deredeo giving the invuln save is still a good idea, but when a captain is 77 pts stock, and you split that price between 4 preds, its kind of a no-brainer thing to add.

Would you pay 20 pts a predator to natively reroll 1s?

Yeah, probably.

[9x19 Parabellum]

You'll want a 4th predator.....

 

ugh. I have 2. Considering getting a 3rd just for this trick. But 4? Aye yai yai....

 

The other issue is that I play a lot of smaller games, like, in the 1k to 1.2k region.

 

4 Predators + A captain won't work, points wise.  I can barely get 3 to work, but yes, otherwise, i agree a captain is a better investment than the Wisdom of the Ancients stratagem.

[The Unseen]

Don't take lascannon sponsons if your running 3 or 4 specifically for killshot.

 

Heavy Bolters with +1 to wound and 2 damage are basically 3 shot autocannons vs T7.

So they remain effective at killing big targets with killshot, but are much cheaper.

Some people will even say to run them with just the predator autocannons, but I feel that's a bit of a waste.

 

Running 3 preds in a 1k or less game I wouldn't recomend.

Killshot is more of a 1750 to 2k strat.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Right, I was not planning on running Lascannon Predators for killshot.  I think you get more bang for your buck with Autocannon and Heavy bolters.  With storm bolters, they come to under 500. I can't get a Deredeo in there, but I could get a venerable dread and just ignore the 5++.  At 1 - 1.2k, there's a good chance there won't be enough AT dakka to take down a Predator in 1 turn.

Edited March 12, 2018 by 9x19 Parabellum

[9x19 Parabellum]

OOoooh. I just looked in Chapter Approved again and saw the Predator autocannon went down 9 pts. I can do this at 1k points :-)

[Captain Idaho]

It's viable. Sure if someone takes out a Predator it's ruined the Strategum but you do still have 2 Predators ;)

 

I think Wisdom of the Ancients combo is good since it allows you to use cheaper HQs or even spread your Captain about.

[TheDecay]

Fully endorse this strat!

The core of all my Iron Hands lists are 3 autocannon + Las sponson preds and the 5++ Deredeo.

They are so killy, it's amazing. Between the invuln and the techmarine you won't need 4 Preds, even if just two preds survive they're going to blow stuff up.

Do you ever play Shrike? Rerolling all your misses on the tanks ups their firepower significantly if you end up playing higher points.

Very interested in this heavy bolter version though...never considered it, and with the LT to reroll wounds of 1 they'll probably push some damage through.

I usually use my LT as warlord with storm of fire so that the +1 to wound from kill shot triggers the additional -1ap on wound rolls of 5.

Edited March 12, 2018 by TheDecay

[9x19 Parabellum]

Fully endorse this strat!

The core of all my Iron Hands lists are 3 autocannon + Las sponson preds and the 5++ Deredeo.

They are so killy, it's amazing. Between the invuln and the techmarine you won't need 4 Preds, even if just two preds survive they're going to blow stuff up.

Do you ever play Shrike? Rerolling all your misses on the tanks ups their firepower significantly if you end up playing higher points.

Very interested in this heavy bolter version though...never considered it, and with the LT to reroll wounds of 1 they'll probably push some damage through.

I usually use my LT as warlord with storm of fire so that the +1 to wound from kill shot triggers the additional -1ap on wound rolls of 5.

 

Nice! Great to hear someone has tried it out.

Yes, I do play Shrike, I have a nice conversion for him.  I'm just trying to leverage the Deredeo as much as possible, as a double aura buffer for hits and invulns in this small list.   Plus...I frekking LOVE that model.  Indeed, i was going to use the Lt. Storm of Fire warlord trait for an additional -1 AP :-)

 

For RG, my Devastators are outfitted with Lascannons (I have 2 units of 4).  They wouldn't make it into this list at 1k points, but I would use them in higher point games of course, so no Lascannons on Predator sponsoons here, I'm afraid.

[Brother Crimson]

Deredeo is relic you can use relic of ancient glory for a full hit reroll !

[9x19 Parabellum]

Deredeo is relic you can use relic of ancient glory for a full hit reroll !

 

I don't know anything about Relic rules/data etc. Where do I find this?

[Brother Crimson]

 

Deredeo is relic you can use relic of ancient glory for a full hit reroll !

 

I don't know anything about Relic rules/data etc. Where do I find this?

 

 

Forgeworld index.

[9x19 Parabellum]

This is the one I want, right?

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Index-Adeptus-astartes-2017

[Brother Crimson]

This is the one I want, right?

 

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/Imperial-Armour-Index-Adeptus-astartes-2017

Yes, until they update it post-codex XD

[crazyterran]

Might want to hold off on the index, since Cyraxus should be soon, especially now that the Tau codex has dropped.

 

Or it wont be, Cyraxus seems to be caught in development hell or something.

 

Its also available on tablets/mobile devices if you dont want to get dinged by customs if you live in the US/Canada. I know the CBSA loves dinging books.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Yeah i managed to scrounge up enough info that I don't need Astartes Armor and will hold off until/unless they make a new book.

[Solrac]

Having a 4th Predator for redundancy is the safer bet.

 

The latest Space Marine Forgeworld FAQ changed the Automantic Pavaise to having to be wholly within 6" of the Deredeo to get the 5++. Not sure if you can fit a Predator wholly within 6" of a Deredeo, never tried it.

 

It has been a common theme with a lot of the Invul Auras (Azrael, Shield Generator) so that they no longer give vehicles invuls they shouldn't have.

[Claws and Effect]

Having a 4th Predator for redundancy is the safer bet.

 

The latest Space Marine Forgeworld FAQ changed the Automantic Pavaise to having to be wholly within 6" of the Deredeo to get the 5++. Not sure if you can fit a Predator wholly within 6" of a Deredeo, never tried it.

 

It has been a common theme with a lot of the Invul Auras (Azrael, Shield Generator) so that they no longer give vehicles invuls they shouldn't have.

You can probably make a Predator wholly fit within 6" of a Deredeo. You'll have to set them up basically touching, but it should be doable. Preds aren't that big.

[Solrac]

 

Having a 4th Predator for redundancy is the safer bet.

 

The latest Space Marine Forgeworld FAQ changed the Automantic Pavaise to having to be wholly within 6" of the Deredeo to get the 5++. Not sure if you can fit a Predator wholly within 6" of a Deredeo, never tried it.

 

It has been a common theme with a lot of the Invul Auras (Azrael, Shield Generator) so that they no longer give vehicles invuls they shouldn't have.

You can probably make a Predator wholly fit within 6" of a Deredeo. You'll have to set them up basically touching, but it should be doable. Preds aren't that big.

 

 

True but can you fit 3? Because if you can't your opponent will just shoot the one not in 5++ and there goes Killshot anyway.

[CCE1981]

This weekend I am going to try out 3x Contemptor Dreadnoughts with 2x twin lascannons using Dark Angels. The math works out that these guys do much better than all lascannon predators before Killshot, with Killshot the Predators edge out the Dreadnoughts by about 0.25 damage per shot.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Cool, let us know how it goes.  I'm almost done with my Deredeo, so I'll be trying him out soon and we'll see how he does!