9x19 Parabellum Posted March 11, 2018 Share Posted March 11, 2018 Ok so here's a little nugget I came up with while trying to think up ways to use my guys differently, both for my own fun and to surprise opponents. Take a 10 man unit of Devastators with 4x whatever heavy weapon pleases you. Preferably a long range weapon (lascannons, missiles, heavy bolters) that will obscure their true purpose, since part of the fun of this is an exercise in misdirection (read: STEALTH!). Give the sgt a melee weapon and combi...probably a combi plasma. Take an armorium cherub. Now you're going to StfS these guys...when you deploy them, put them on a flank, I'd recommend, although not necessarily. That part is up to you, but you'll want them about 12" from the enemy. Now on your first turn, you're going to pay the 1 CP to combat squad them. The 4 heavy weapons guys and 1 other dude go backward into cover or elevation (or both) or some generally more useful position out of the way. But the sgt and 4 other guys and the armorium cherub go forward! You're going to shoot overcharged, using signum and armorium cherub to support your alpha striking sgt...hitting on 2's, that's 4 rapid shot plasma shots. And then...you're going to charge with Sgt and 4 dudes...maybe tie up an enemy vehicle or whatever is most advantageous. But the overall point of this is that I think it's VERY unexpected. Oh by the way, my original intention for this was to have a melta bomb on the Sgt and do the same thing except with melta bombs. But it seems Devastator Sgts can't get this, which made me very sad :-( But if anyone knows of an errata or FAQ that gives it to them, let me know. Because double shooting meltabombs with signum would be AMAZEBALLS Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 You're right. No one would expect an alpha strike consisting of FOUR plasma shots. You could try a different version of this tactic. You take 4 lascannons in your dev squad and place them in your back field next to your captain/LT/banner. Then you get FOUR lascannon shots for less points and less CPs. You wont have to make a 9" charge(28% chance). You guys wont be in range of the entire enemy army. Alpha strikes only work if you are all in with it. If you do it half assed, you wont do any damage and lose all your guys on the bottom of turn 1. If you want your idea to work you need to add a few ingredients to it. I would add AT MINIMUM, 1 Stormraven filled with guys that do tons of dmg at close range and a dread. multiple 5 man squads of vanguard vets with shrike dropping in, plasma pistols and power swords work well here Optional Extras 1 Bannerman with the relic banner that sits in the middle of your alpha strike bomb. You want to make removing your guys as painful as possible storm talon gunships doing what they do backfield devs, the longer the range the better imperial guard allies to give your army bulk and firepower that doesnt require LOS. Infantry blobs with mortars are great I like that tactical flexibility idea though. Very hipster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5030008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) He doesn't have to make a 9" charge though. If he uses SFTS it's a 3" charge he needs to make, because the unit can still move. Bloody hell, that just gave me an idea. 10 Sternguard with combi-flamers. SFTS and hit a chaff unit with 20 bolter shots hitting on 4s and 10d6 flamer hits...... Edited March 12, 2018 by Claws and Effect Race Bannon, 9x19 Parabellum and SanguinaryGuardsman 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5030127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 (edited) And that’s what makes Aggressors the badboyz of backfield disruption for Primaris. :D Edited March 12, 2018 by Inquisitor Dracos Race Bannon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5030141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted March 12, 2018 Author Share Posted March 12, 2018 He doesn't have to make a 9" charge though. If he uses SFTS it's a 3" charge he needs to make, because the unit can still move. Bloody hell, that just gave me an idea. 10 Sternguard with combi-flamers. SFTS and hit a chaff unit with 20 bolter shots hitting on 4s and 10d6 flamer hits...... I frekkin' love this. Don't know why I didn't think of it before :-) You're right. No one would expect an alpha strike consisting of FOUR plasma shots. You could try a different version of this tactic. You take 4 lascannons in your dev squad and place them in your back field next to your captain/LT/banner. Then you get FOUR lascannon shots for less points and less CPs. You wont have to make a 9" charge(28% chance). You guys wont be in range of the entire enemy army. Alpha strikes only work if you are all in with it. If you do it half assed, you wont do any damage and lose all your guys on the bottom of turn 1. If you want your idea to work you need to add a few ingredients to it. I would add AT MINIMUM, 1 Stormraven filled with guys that do tons of dmg at close range and a dread. multiple 5 man squads of vanguard vets with shrike dropping in, plasma pistols and power swords work well here Optional Extras 1 Bannerman with the relic banner that sits in the middle of your alpha strike bomb. You want to make removing your guys as painful as possible storm talon gunships doing what they do backfield devs, the longer the range the better imperial guard allies to give your army bulk and firepower that doesnt require LOS. Infantry blobs with mortars are great I like that tactical flexibility idea though. Very hipster. I don't think I ever suggested that this should be the ONLY element to an alpha strike, if in fact one is going to alpha strike. It's really just a way to throw something unexpected down, particularly on a weak flank or against an objective being contested by something fairly flimsy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5030177 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 I love you guys with such tactical talk ... in that Astartes kinda way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5030239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 Prinarily Primaris Advice SanguinaryGuard puts forth much the same advice, mine is just tailored to Primaris units. Never leave a flanking unit unsupported. Actually ever leave any unit unsupported but that’s another apple. I am building two 5 man units of Reivers to serve as support units at the 2k level. One is dedicated to the Aggressors the other to the Inceptors. I’ve actually thought of using SftS for the Inceptors but the Reiver support is the same as for the Aggressors just potentially delayed a turn depending on circumstances. Aggressors are to shoot soft units and charge hard ones while the Inceptors are to shoot hard units and charge softer units. They both operate as 5 man squads at full stength. Both are supported by captains. Shadow-Grav Captain with the Aggressors and Kestrel <Shrike> with the Inceptors. You have to be a badass to want to mix it up with almost 15 powerfist attacks but they can get over ran with numbers and unlike the Inceptors they can’t fly out and shoot. To that effect the Reivers are to either intercept units trying to reinforce the bad guys in melee or provide fire support and bubble the Inceptors from real assault units. I’ve thought real hard about using bolt pistol and blade for the Reivers but the carbine just seems more useful responding all the other potential situations that might arise while harassing an opponents backfield. Enough rambling for now back to rl. jpwyrm and duz_ 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5030371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 He doesn't have to make a 9" charge though. If he uses SFTS it's a 3" charge he needs to make, because the unit can still move. Bloody hell, that just gave me an idea. 10 Sternguard with combi-flamers. SFTS and hit a chaff unit with 20 bolter shots hitting on 4s and 10d6 flamer hits...... Youre right, I was wrong. Three inches is better than nine inches. (insert lewd joke here) Im not sure the element of surprise even exists in 40k since it is a game of complete information. You know the entire board, and the enemy army. The only time surprise occurs is at the list building stage or when rolling dice and having something absurd happen like quadruple 6s that then alters your gameplan drastically. Dumping unsupported units on the side of the board with a tactical nuance thrown in will not help you win games. Prinarily Primaris Advice SanguinaryGuard puts forth much the same advice, mine is just tailored to Primaris units. Never leave a flanking unit unsupported. Actually ever leave any unit unsupported but that’s another apple. I am building two 5 man units of Reivers to serve as support units at the 2k level. One is dedicated to the Aggressors the other to the Inceptors. I’ve actually thought of using SftS for the Inceptors but the Reiver support is the same as for the Aggressors just potentially delayed a turn depending on circumstances. Aggressors are to shoot soft units and charge hard ones while the Inceptors are to shoot hard units and charge softer units. They both operate as 5 man squads at full stength. Both are supported by captains. Shadow-Grav Captain with the Aggressors and Kestrel <Shrike> with the Inceptors. You have to be a badass to want to mix it up with almost 15 powerfist attacks but they can get over ran with numbers and unlike the Inceptors they can’t fly out and shoot. To that effect the Reivers are to either intercept units trying to reinforce the bad guys in melee or provide fire support and bubble the Inceptors from real assault units. I’ve thought real hard about using bolt pistol and blade for the Reivers but the carbine just seems more useful responding all the other potential situations that might arise while harassing an opponents backfield. Enough rambling for now back to rl. That sounds really cool. Just a giant blob of primaris in your opponents face. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5030396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted March 14, 2018 Author Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) Ok so I finally broke down and got my first squad of Aggressors. Building them as full dakka, no flames. I guess the preferred method of insertion is to SftS 15"-18", don't move, get double dakka and enjoy our chapter tactic while we're at it? I love the models so far...the whole primaris range is just so easy to model and work with. Can't way to paint these bad boys up and try them out. so...22 melta bombs gets me 56 str 4 shots if I don't move. That's under 2 pts per shot...which beats out even the Company Vets with stormbolters and chainsword idea I had...on a T5 platform no less! Edited March 14, 2018 by 9x19 Parabellum SanguinaryGuardsman and duz_ 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5031893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I wonder when we will see Raven Guard Aggressor + Hellblaster spam hitting tournies list? Joke ... mostly :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Ok so I finally broke down and got my first squad of Aggressors. Building them as full dakka, no flames. I guess the preferred method of insertion is to SftS 15"-18", don't move, get double dakka and enjoy our chapter tactic while we're at it? I love the models so far...the whole primaris range is just so easy to model and work with. Can't way to paint these bad boys up and try them out. so...22 melta bombs gets me 56 str 4 shots if I don't move. That's under 2 pts per shot...which beats out even the Company Vets with stormbolters and chainsword idea I had...on a T5 platform no less! Do a full squad of six. 84 shots minimum if they don't move, and up to 144 if you roll perfect. Remember they have the fragstorm launchers too that they can fire at the same time. 2d6 shots each if they stand still. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I've been running RG aggressors most of 8th so far its great :D The other day playing against my Necron opponent I fired a heavy warrior squad(?) And rolled 5x 6s and a 5 for the double tapping 6D6 shots that was on top of the 32 other shots ;) Killed 7 annoyingly he passed his leadership then brought 3 back. I forgot about re-animation and didnt focus fire enough. Still won bottom of T3 when he conceded Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Yeah, I'm succumbing to the Aggressors Bandwagon too. Will playtest them next time I can play, but it looks like it's one of these units you can't afford to sideline with RG Chapter Tactics. I like Inquisitor Draco's tactic of a double drop to maximize pressure on the opponent. I'll be giving this a try, even though it's hard to squeeze everything at 1500 pts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032737 Share on other sites More sharing options...
varchilde Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 SftS Aggressors are really good! In complete agreement with everyone I'm contemplating Sfts Hellblasters as a complement backed up with Jump Pack Cap (and possibly Jump Pack Lt); why those HQs? Deep strike the buff characters to conserve CPs. Use those spare CPs for the "shoot twice" stratagem on the Hellblasters (who should be overcharging, re-rolling 1s to Hit and wounds). Yummy. duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Shoot twice strategem? There's an attack twice in combat one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I’m just deflashing the mold lines on my Aggressors this week (Scouts were last week) so hope to have WIP pics of both up this weekend. Yeah at a 1000 up couldn’t imagine not using Aggressors. The Reiver support squads are designed specifically for the 2k tourney list. I’ve been watching local games and ALOT of online battle reports and I see a common factor with players who think a particular unit of Primaris isn’t performing as expected. Whether it’s Intercessors not being studs, or Interceptors being “too expensive”. They are usually disappointed because said unit was left to perform on its own. Now maybe it’s just me but I find it strange when people complain about Primaris not being the generalists that Tactical squads are then upset when they perform like specialist. Specialist need support. Primaris are all specialist and if you’re going to play primarily Primaris you better design your list so they support each other. Intercessors supported by heavy Hellblasters Interceptors and Aggressors supported by Reivers ... and HQs designed to support each. It’s my believe that in most games/missions if you review it carefully, there will be three points on the battlefield that determined the outcome of the game. Identify those points during deployment and focus the majority of your battle plan on “winning” those areas. Be willing to sacrifice units when needed as either road bumps or distractions and always keep in mind your most beloved unit is going to likely be your opponents primary target Turn 1. No one is scared of your Intercessors. Use that to your advantage. Come the end of Turn 3 they will be scrambling after realizing while they were focuseing on the Redemptor and Hellblasters the first two Turns, your ObSec Intercessors have become 10 wounds sitting in cover with 2+ saves and those damn Scouts (I said primarily not all Primaris ;)) moved over to become a road bump. Whew uh yeah I need to pick up the pace on modelling. I really want to start doing batreps. jpwyrm, duz_ and Race Bannon 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
varchilde Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Shoot twice strategem? There's an attack twice in combat one? Doh. I was convinced Honour the Chapter allowed attacking or shooting. I confused myself with "Only in Death". Ignore me. Going back to the Shadows with the big old Dunce's cap. duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Common mistake apparently ;) I had the pleasure of losing a Repulsor which then took out a full wound 3 man aggressor squad and 5 scouts. :ermm: varchilde 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345162-strike-from-the-shadows-lolz-plasma-suicide-mission/#findComment-5032984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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