Summoning - is it actually useable?

[sneakybamsen]

Hi Guys,

 

I've been wondering about summoning the last few days. I've read the rules once or twice in our dear codex, and it's made me think that even though you have to allocate points for what you want to summon in matched play, it does provide options, if you have the models. Yes, there are certain restrictions, and I'm not thinking super competitively here, but summoning feels fluffy and does provide flexibility, as you can choose what you want to summon, as long as you roll high enough.

 

Facts:

Has to be a Thousand Sons character performing the summoning

Must not move or having counts as moved (no deep striking/webway) in the movement phase

Roll a number of dice up to 3d6

Doubles do 1 mortal wound

Triples do d3 mortal wounds

Not working like perils of the warp, so no killing a sorceror meaning mortal wounds to nearby friendly units.

Can summon equal to or below the dice total in PL, so if you get a 12+, you could get for instance 30 horrors.

Unit summoned must arrive within 12" of the summoner and more than 9" from an enemy.

 

Why, with all the restrictions and the risk of doing damage to a character, potentially even rubrics or scarab occult, if you use a character from one of those units for the ritual, would you want to summon? You have to put points in reserve too. Well, I think the flexibility of getting what you might need when you might need it (hopefully) will serve it's purpose. Imagine rolling 12+ on 3d6 and have 9 flamers come down without paying CP for deep striking them. Even 6 is nasty (8+ on 2d6/3d6). It's 12" flamers with AP -1, so they can drop and barbecue something properly. Or 6-9 screamers, if you need the odd melee deterrent.

 

I kind of like the flexibility, but I haven't played TS yet, and it will be a while before I get to do just that, as I've only recently started collecting them.

 

Please do let the rest of us know what you think, but keep in mind I'm not thinking super competitively here.

[Nym]

I always keep 175pts in reserve in my lists in order to summon Tzeentch Flamers (6) or Pink Horrors (25). I think summoning is totally worth it for the versatility it gives you, but needs to be used with caution. Don't base your whole strategy around it because it can (and will) let you down sometimes. I rolled a 5 or 6 more than a few times and ended up with half the unit I was expecting.

 

Usually I summon with Ahriman because I use him as a support Character and he's got a huge range for his Psychic Powers. Last game I played there was an annoying Valkyrie in my lines. I summoned Flamers of Tzeentch and took it down with the help of Flickering Flames and a bit of luck on my dice (6 wounds).

 

PS : Rubrics and Scarabs cannot use Daemonic Ritual.

[sneakybamsen]

What makes a scarab occult sorcerer for instance unable to use Daemonic Ritual? What did I miss?

[C@BA]

He isn't a character, only characters can summon.

[Raven1]

It's something I wouldn't use in a competitive game but for fun yeah i would. It's a good risk/reward system because of the flexibility and not requiring CP to deepstrike, but I wouldn't build a strategy around it.

[Re'Koleq't]

I'm toying with the idea of a back field sorcerer, obj camped, summoning 10 horrors with split (230pts) in a fun game.

 

Sorcerer sitting with cultists looks like a soft target, so the enemy sends just 1 squad after them and then - blam! 10 pinks instantly materialise in front of them, which potentially totals 50 models!

Then if you roll a 1 for the daemonic icon (use gaze of fate if not already used) that's d6 pinks brought back!

These can't split (unless you paid even more points) but it's hilarious anyway.

 

Opponents' not likely to shift that lot without dedicated effort. Hehe

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Hi Guys,

 

I've been wondering about summoning the last few days. I've read the rules once or twice in our dear codex, and it's made me think that even though you have to allocate points for what you want to summon in matched play, it does provide options, if you have the models. Yes, there are certain restrictions, and I'm not thinking super competitively here, but summoning feels fluffy and does provide flexibility, as you can choose what you want to summon, as long as you roll high enough.

 

Facts:

Has to be a Thousand Sons character performing the summoning

Must not move or having counts as moved (no deep striking/webway) in the movement phase

Roll a number of dice up to 3d6

Doubles do 1 mortal wound

Triples do d3 mortal wounds

Not working like perils of the warp, so no killing a sorceror meaning mortal wounds to nearby friendly units.

Can summon equal to or below the dice total in PL, so if you get a 12+, you could get for instance 30 horrors.

Unit summoned must arrive within 12" of the summoner and more than 9" from an enemy.

 

Why, with all the restrictions and the risk of doing damage to a character, potentially even rubrics or scarab occult, if you use a character from one of those units for the ritual, would you want to summon? You have to put points in reserve too. Well, I think the flexibility of getting what you might need when you might need it (hopefully) will serve it's purpose. Imagine rolling 12+ on 3d6 and have 9 flamers come down without paying CP for deep striking them. Even 6 is nasty (8+ on 2d6/3d6). It's 12" flamers with AP -1, so they can drop and barbecue something properly. Or 6-9 screamers, if you need the odd melee deterrent.

 

I kind of like the flexibility, but I haven't played TS yet, and it will be a while before I get to do just that, as I've only recently started collecting them.

 

Please do let the rest of us know what you think, but keep in mind I'm not thinking super competitively here.

Don't forget Sorcerous Pact for 1cp.  You roll 4d6 and doubles/tripples no longer hurt you.  That opens up way more options since you could combo this with Gaze of Fate and command point reroll for really high average rolls.  You could summon something quite large.

[sneakybamsen]

Don't have the codex with me, but I was certain there are fairly limited options to what you can summon. Flamers, Horrors and Screamers afair. Maybe even a DP. So I don't see much point in trying to go past 12 on the roll, which is fairly doable with 3d6, though of course ignoring doubles and trebles is sweet.

 

Sorry about Aspiring Sorcerers from Rubric or SoT squads, I surely remembered them as being characters.

[Panzer]

Don't have the codex with me, but I was certain there are fairly limited options to what you can summon. Flamers, Horrors and Screamers afair. Maybe even a DP. So I don't see much point in trying to go past 12 on the roll, which is fairly doable with 3d6, though of course ignoring doubles and trebles is sweet.

 

Sorry about Aspiring Sorcerers from Rubric or SoT squads, I surely remembered them as being characters.

 

You can summon everything you want from the Daemon Codex as long as you roll high enough. Everything there has the required Daemonic Ritual special rule except for the Feculent Gnarlmaws and Be'lakor. Even Kairos Fateweaver has the Daemonic Ritual special rule but rolling a 19 or higher is kinda difficult lol. Even the Soulgrinder is summonable if you roll a 12 or higher.

Edited March 14, 2018 by sfPanzer

[sneakybamsen]

I remembered it as only being entries in codex Thousand Sons with the rule, but it seems I misremember a lot

 

So with the stratagem you could go for something big, but therein lies a problem. The higher PL value, the less likely to succeed, meaning more points that won't likely hit the table. Personally I don't think it's worth aiming at Kairos or something about his level (not very good with daemon units), as the risk is too great. You could, potentially, have 5 attempts in a game which means a character is stuck in the same spot for all those 5 turns (if the game lasts that long and doesn't get extended), but 19+ on 4d6 with stratagem is not easy. And if you did it 5 times it could be 5 CP spent with no gain. Now, that is quite unlikely that anyone will want to do that, if they've done the calculations on it, but still. Imagine spending 5 CP to not have 200+ pts (or whatever Kairos costs) come on the board...

[Panzer]

The points don't disappear if you don't reach the needed PL to summon the big guys. You can just summon a second unit next time.

 

However yes, summoning is an extremely situational rule and usually not worth gambling on it. Just take a cheap Daemon detachment, enjoy the Daemon Codex benefits and gain some cheap CP as well.

[Paladin777]

Also bear in mind that you do not have to pick the unit you intend to summon until after you roll. This makes this less of a pass or fail check, more like how big can you summon this time.

[sneakybamsen]

Yes, I just meant it would be silly to have something big as your only summoning option, as that might reduce the ability of your list considerably, if you don't get the desired result.

[Archaeinox]

Flamers of Tzeentch. There is absolutely no reason to put them in a detachment (much less deploy them) unless it is a Tzeentch Vanguard or something. If you have 84 pts to spare, might as well summon them because at least they can pew when they arrive.

[Raven1]

Flamers of Tzeentch. There is absolutely no reason to put them in a detachment (much less deploy them) unless it is a Tzeentch Vanguard or something. If you have 84 pts to spare, might as well summon them because at least they can pew when they arrive.

Just flamers that's true, but if your looking for a more robust ally or dependable army wide strategy I think a detachment is the best way to go.