GK vs Hive Fleet Kronos aka I need more Venerables

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So, had a game against one of the club regulars. He's been playing Tyranids since forever, and by pure happenstance painted his entire army in Kronos colours way back in 7th. Needless to say, he's pretty happy with the new codex.

 

My list:

Battalion:

- GMDK w/greatsword, heavy psycannon, gatling psilencer, 'Sanctuary', Warlord (First Into The Fray), teleporter

- GMDK w/greatsword, heavy psycannon, gatling psilencer, 'Gate', teleporter

- 10x Strikes w/falchions, 'Hammerhand'

- 5x Strikes w/falchions, 'Vortex'

- 5x Strikes w/falchions, 'Hammerhand'

- (2) Justicar w/falchions, 4x Purgators w/psilencer, 'Astral Aim'

Vanguard:

- Brother-Captain w/relic hammer, 'Gate'

- Doomglaive

- 2x Venerable Dreadnought w/twin lascannon, missile launcher

 

His list (roughly)

Battalion:

- Flyrant w/twin heavy devourers, rending claws, Paroxysm+Catalyst, Warlord (Soul Hunger)

- 2x Flyrant w/twin heavy devourers, rending claws (one had Psychic Scream I think, didn't matter much)

- Malanthrope

- 5x Zoanthropes w/Psychic Scream

- 6x Hive Guard

- 2x Exocrine

- (3) 15x Gaunts w/fleshborers (roughly, one of them might have been 10)

- 3x Biovores

- Big pod (transport for Zoeys)

 

Mission was one objective worth 3VP each, placed in our DZ

Deployment  was Dawn of War, I made him commit to the left side first (as I had less drops) and then deployed my on-table stuff on the right flank (around my objective). 

Slay the Warlord, First Blood and Linebreaker were in effect.

 

I won roll off for Turn 1, he failed to Seize.

 

Turn 1 GK:

 

One Venerable has line of sight to Biovores, other one is safely behind a big hill so I opt to go for 'Astral Aim'. Purgators, Brother-Captain and Doomglaive spread a bit more to deny more landing space (as nothing is in range for them).

Alpha comes down, daisy-chaining the GMDK's between the Strikes to ensure everyone has re-rolls. I'm concentrated on the left flank, trying to blow through the screening Gaunts so I have charge lanes on the Exocrines.

 

Psychic phase is meh, I fail 'Vortex' and 'Sanctuary' (the latter due to his 'one dice to cast' strat, which I'm forced to use my other strat to push to 'two dice pick highest'). I burn all but two Command Points putting out 'Heed' on my Warlord (so he's at least on a 3+ against the Exocrine fire), and turning on 'Psychic Onslaught'. Brother-Captain successfully 'Gates' himself into position to help the Smite range go up at least.

 

Shooting is hilariously bad, I do 2 damage to a single Exocrine and massacre one Gaunt screen with storm bolter (they also tanked all my Smite). The Venerables kill one Biovore between them (I think I rolled triple 1's to wound with one of them). Malanthrope is such value, it honestly denied so many 3's to hit.

 

Turn 1 Kronos Nids:

 

His alpha lands behind me (I successfully blocked him out of anywhere near my objective at least). 

 

Exocrines, Hive Guard and Smite kill both Grandmasters...I use 'Only In Death' and kill one Zoey. He tries to snipe the Brother-Captain, but I deny the one Smite that goes his way, and pass the saves from devourers. Gaunts on right flank cautiously advance, trying to stay out of range of the Purgators that keep moving up.

 

Turn 2 GK:

 

At this point I'm playing to draw, because I have no way to get onto his objective with so many gunbeasts in the way. I turn around and move in on the Flyrants and Zoanthrope brood.

 

'Vortex' fails again, Soul Hunger triggers and eats 3/5 of the squad. 'Hammerhand' goes off on the 10-man Strike squad at least. Shooting goes amazingly well for a change, I down two Flyrants with the Venerables+left side Purgator squad, plus Doomglaive helps as well. Warlord Flyrant takes a few wounds from shooting. Charges go really well, I get the Brother-Captain and a couple of falchions hitting the Warlord Flyrant, while the 10-man unit dogpiles the rest of their attacks into the Zoey brood. Melee doesn't go quite as well, I do nothing except 2 damage to one Zoey. In return, Flyrant puts the Brother-Captain down to 2 wounds.

 

Turn 2 Kronos Nids:

 

Warlord Flyrant backs out of combat, flying over the melee to get a snipe on the Brother-Captain. Zoey's back out of combat to do the same. 

 

Shooting and Smite clears away all the Strikes and the Brother-Captain...Doomglaive eats some Hive Guard shots and is put down to five wounds.

 

Turn 3 GK:

 

Doomglaive advances, looking to charge the Zoeys if he can (turns out he's 13" away still after moving so no dice). Purgators on right flank shift up into a ruined building to whittle away at some Gaunts. 

 

Shooting is mediocre, I kill one more Zoey and a handful of Gaunts.

 

Turn 4 Kronos Nids:

 

He moves up Flyrant to annihilate my left side Purgator squad, which he does. Hive Guard beat Doomglaive. 

 

Turn 4 GK:

 

Left-flank Purgators hold their ground and keep whittling away at Gaunts. Venerables take aim and kill Warlord Flyrant, bringing us to a draw on points.

 

Turn 4 Kronos Nids:

 

Biovores kill two Purgators, and the Hive Guard eat one of the Venerables. 

 

Turn 5 GK:

 

Venerable does nothing (whiffed all my rolls), Purgators kill a few Gaunts I think.

 

Turn 5 Kronos Nids:

 

Last Venerable is still mostly screened by terrain/out of range of Hive Guard, so he survives but his Purgator brothers die horribly.

 

We roll for a game end and don't get a Turn 6. 5VP each draw (as we both got Warlord, he had Linebreaker and I had First Blood, and neither objective was taken by opponent).

 

 

Such a brutal game, and I had some truly abysmal rolls. I am strongly considering ditching all the guns off Grandmasters, they're kinda useless most of the time to be honest. I am also changing out the Purgators and Doomglaive for my four Venerable build. I was severely lacking the multi-damage output necessary to kill the gunbeasts, and they remained safe from melee all game (or shot anything that came into charge range down). I hate D6 damage rolls though, they can just fail horribly sometimes.

 

Kronos is definitely the best fleet. The anti-psyker Warlord trait and strategem just shut me down a lot, 'Shadow' cancels the Brotherhood bonus for casting (although not for Denying I believe). Exocrines are disgusting, hitting on 3's firing twice and re-rolling 1's to hit if they stay still. Hive Guard kept getting a 'fire twice' strat applied to them, which made them insane value.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Brother Tyler

[Gentlemanloser]

Welcome to the club.

 

Just one thing to point out. The nid cast on 1 dice strat is worded so that even if we use our extra dice strat, we still only get to cast on 1 dice.

 

Be thankful he didn't try to troll you with the anti psyker fleet just for his warlord.

 

We're constant surprised nids don't feature in tournaments. They're solid and have every tool necessary.

[Ninjoe42]

I think you did REALLY good considering you lost both GMNDK's right out of the gate before they could do anything!

 

Curious how your Purgators did, they lived quite a while, and I've not used them much

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Just one thing to point out. The nid cast on 1 dice strat is worded so that even if we use our extra dice strat, we still only get to cast on 1 dice.

 

Yeah we had real trouble figuring it out. I checked the FAQ's and we agreed to it being 'two dice pick highest' when both our strats are used. Has there been an official ruling we can reference next time?

Be thankful he didn't try to troll you with the anti psyker fleet just for his warlord. 

 

We're constant surprised nids don't feature in tournaments. They're solid and have every tool necessary. 

 

The Kronos Warlord trait is pretty good in and of itself, also fluffy cos it was his actual force. He's not a big tournament guy, but he has been tweaking his list a lot in 8th.

 

Yeah I agree, they're extremely good. Lots of redundancy, very good shooting, their psychic is quite solid as well (especially defensively). I think it may be due to the cheese builds that lock most people out of the top tables. Nids have strong armies, but nothing cheesy in my opinion.

I think you did REALLY good considering you lost both GMNDK's right out of the gate before they could do anything!

 

Curious how your Purgators did, they lived quite a while, and I've not used them much 

 

It was extra depressing because they literally did 2 wounds with shooting between them, and that psycannon round was from the one I didn't buff with 'Psychic Onslaught' :( 

 

Quite well actually. For a cheap backfield drop, they're fine. They prevented any attempt by his Gaunts to advance on my objective, and even helped bring down a Flyrant (the D3 damage is good when you sneak some wounds past enemy saves). I'll probably keep using my two squads. I am retiring the Venerables for Armigers ASAP though. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Faced nids last night, Mawlock MW spam this time.

 

Thought it was over T1, when 2 exo's shot my GMNDK off the board and he did 7MW with two smites to one of my Shield Captains on Dawneagles.

 

Managed to slog it out in CC and if game ended T5, Nids would have won 7-1.  I tabled him my T7 though.

 

Needed the Bikes to tie the Exocrines up in CC.  Would have been different without them.

[Danarc]

Faced nids last night, Mawlock MW spam this time.

 

Thought it was over T1, when 2 exo's shot my GMNDK off the board and he did 7MW with two smites to one of my Shield Captains on Dawneagles.

 

Managed to slog it out in CC and if game ended T5, Nids would have won 7-1.  I tabled him my T7 though.

 

Needed the Bikes to tie the Exocrines up in CC.  Would have been different without them.

what did you play?

[Gentlemanloser]

My current GK/AC list (testing the FW Achillus);

 

Supreme Command

HQ: Shield Captain on Dawneagle, Warlord - impregnable Mind, Relic Bike

HQ: Shield Captain on Dawneagle

HQ: Shield Captain on Dawneagle

 

Vanguard

HQ: Shield Captain in Allarus, Axe

Elite: Contemptor Achillus

Elite: Allarus Custodians x3, Spears

Elite: Vexiliia in Allarus, Magnifica, Misericordia

 

Vanguard

HQ: GMNDK, Gattling Psiliencer, Sanctuary

Elite: Doomglaive, GoI

Elite: Doomglaive, GoI

Elite: Doomglaive, GoI

 

The Contemptor Achillus wasn't worth the 245 points.  It's overcosted and out performed by Doomglaives.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Faced nids last night, Mawlock MW spam this time.

 

Thought it was over T1, when 2 exo's shot my GMNDK off the board and he did 7MW with two smites to one of my Shield Captains on Dawneagles.

 

Managed to slog it out in CC and if game ended T5, Nids would have won 7-1.  I tabled him my T7 though.

 

Needed the Bikes to tie the Exocrines up in CC.  Would have been different without them.

 

Yeah I'm pretty concerned about how to deal with the Exocrine+Hive Guard gunline. Melee is impossible without Fly, and even then they can deny landing space with good placement. Hive Guard also don't require Line of Sight, so they can be hidden all game potentially and you can't avoid their firepower if they are in range. GK lack fast or cheap chaff to tie stuff up in melee.

 

Currently (assuming I do integrate Armigers into my list), my plan is to massacre the Exocrines first, then take out the Hive Guard after. I'm gonna be taking three of them, so I expect one will get into melee with the Hive Guard and blender them. Thermal lances look solid for anti-tank/monster requirements, even with the Malanthrope -1 aura. 

 

How are you finding Custodes+GK btw GML? I would have expected (besides the Biker Captains) that our issues get a bit exacerbated. But it sounds like they go together pretty well.

[Gentlemanloser]

To be honest the AC mostly outclass us.  I'm only still using my GK for Psychic Denial, as I don't have Greyfax yet.

 

I've got Rex (2 of him!) so will add him in.  Would probably like a Supreme Command of Rex, Greyfax and Eisenhorn.

 

I don't use Paladin any more as the AC are simply better.  But the bikes, they're a godsend!

 

Fast units with fly, Hurricane Bolters for chaff and durable enough to hold up problem units in CC.

 

I made very good use of HI last night.  He popped his Mawlocks up and after they did their MW thing I simply HI'd my Custards into them and ripped them apart in CC.

 

I miss 40 Stormbolter shots from massed Strikes, but they always died the turn after I DS'd them anyway. 

 

Doomglaives are legit. ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah I got the impression pure Custodes have similar issues to us, but they at least bring the pain. 

 

It is somewhat depressing that my big alpha punch is mostly S4 spam :( it just feels like 7th in that regard. 

 

I'm gonna get some autocannon arms and test out my Venerables with them while I wait for Armigers to come along. My other thought was swapping out for Doomglaives, as they're cheaper.

[Gentlemanloser]

Doomglaives!  They always perform well for me.

 

Forgot to mention, one got hit by a 5 or 6 Smite that game, and I finally remembered Truesilver Armour.

 

Between that and their native 6+++ I didn't take a single MW. ;)

 

Another reason I went Vehicle heavy for the GK units I bought.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Doomglaives!  They always perform well for me.

 

Forgot to mention, one got hit by a 5 or 6 Smite that game, and I finally remembered Truesilver Armour.

 

Between that and their native 6+++ I didn't take a single MW. 

 

Another reason I went Vehicle heavy for the GK units I bought.

 

 

Yeah I should have used Truesilver on my Grandmaster, as he died mostly in the Psychic Phase :(

 

Our Venerable Dreads are pretty good IMO. Still somewhat overpriced, but they at least do what they're supposed to and losing one isn't GG.