Hyped for Russ - guessing at the rules :-)

[Guest Triszin]

as long as he isn't riding the wolf.**

[Guest]

as long as he isn't riding the wolf.**

Wolves are companions not horses.

[TiguriusX]

 

as long as he isn't riding the wolf.**

Wolves are companions not horses.

 

 

Thanks now I have this playing in my head!

[Gherrick]

I like the sword/axe combo he has in 30k, and wouldn't mind if he kept it (the style, not necessarily the weapons themselves). It was a unique style amongst the primarchs IIRC, and spears haven't really been a SW weapon in a LONG time. A two-handed axe is treading a bit too close to Logan's weapon, so I'd rather not see a repeat of it (even it it has better rules). As for combat stats, I don't think there is enough granularity in the system to differentiate between Guilliman and Russ. A 2+ with rerolls works well enough for most things, and perhaps an additional attack (although I would much prefer any rules-space be spent on enhancing the army, not his own martial prowess). And I also agree he needs a decent gun, even if it is just something like a S5/-1 storm bolter.

 

As for Geri/Freki, it would be a bit interesting if they got warped into a two-headed monstrosity that Russ couldn't get himself to put down.

[Guest]

There is a theory his wolves are really psyker familiars. They we're larger and tougher than any other wolf, and most important they were extremely long lives. These were supposedly the brothers he grew up with so you are talking several hundred years old, plus they had their head shattered by Magnus but still return.

 

It is possible that after his time in the warp the wolves have manifested themselves into Morkai himself.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Oh dear God, if they come with a two headed freki and Geri.... at least the Cerberus jokes will be better than the santa jokes.

[MaveriK]

Not sure how I would feel about a two headed wolf. Morkai should remain in our myths/legends and imagination. But I’d love to see Freki and Geri come as spirit wolves. One as ice and another as fire. Representing the polar extremes of Fenris itself.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Not sure how I would feel about a two headed wolf. Morkai should remain in our myths/legends and imagination. But I’d love to see Freki and Geri come as spirit wolves. One as ice and another as fire. Representing the polar extremes of Fenris itself.

 

we did use to have a cool psychic power that did that. So sad it was lacklustre even if it was cool back in 5th-7th.

[Guest]

I feel as though Ishagu guess takes away to much from Russ survivability for a few awkward quirks and 1 extra strength. especially the armour is exceptionally low for a Primarch that has now resurrect ability. My Jarl has a 4+ invulnerability save, with just being a Wolf Lord while Guilliman has a 3+ along with a revive. The 5+ for only mortal wounds is so limiting that I can't see it being that useful. I do like the spear stats though, the gun however could probably remove the psyker ability. Even after his return I don't see Russ having good range skills, also anti-psyker gun just feels odd.

 

 

I would like to see some anti psyker aura or psyker power like Howl of the Wolf where every psyker with x inches on *dice roll* takes 1 mortal wound.

[Jackalwolf]

So hyped up. Amazing rules guys! I definitely want him with the spear and the Odin vibe!

 

As for the transformation, he could turn into Morkai himself rather than being a simple werewolf thing.

[Ishagu]

I feel as though Ishagu guess takes away to much from Russ survivability for a few awkward quirks and 1 extra strength. especially the armour is exceptionally low for a Primarch that has now resurrect ability. My Jarl has a 4+ invulnerability save, with just being a Wolf Lord while Guilliman has a 3+ along with a revive. The 5+ for only mortal wounds is so limiting that I can't see it being that useful. I do like the spear stats though, the gun however could probably remove the psyker ability. Even after his return I don't see Russ having good range skills, also anti-psyker gun just feels odd.

 

 

I would like to see some anti psyker aura or psyker power like Howl of the Wolf where every psyker with x inches on *dice roll* takes 1 mortal wound.

I felt the best thing for Russ to do would be to actually help units get into Assault or surprise the enemy with faster than normal movement. Guilliman's 3+ invul doesn't save him as often as you'd think- if an enemy commits to out-maneuvering my Ultras (not that hard to do) so they can attack the Primarch, they typically do so with mortal wound dealing damage. The rules I came up with could allow a unit of wulfen to charge on turn 1 without getting targeted whilst they move across the board, and also allow Russ to surprise the enemy with a quick move across the table and a charge - I think movement is so, so important and focusing too much on maximising auras takes away from an army. It's why the Ultras haven't performed at the highest level since most armies got their codex :-(

[Guest]

That's the thing you only focused on a single unit, and a very controversial one at that, the Wulfen. What about the Ironwolf Deathwolf, Firehowler, Blackmane players that don't utilize Wulfen. If I was the only one that disliked the Wulfen, then yeah it would be okay. Except there is a good amount of people out there opposed to Wulfen for whatever reason. It would be like telling UM's "Guilliman is focused for Centurions".

 

Less unit oriented rules and more generic unit rules with some unique quirks for himself. To be honest I am not sure how GW will pull it off, as SW are so diverse between each Great Company.

[Ishagu]

Oh there's no easy way to do it, I agree. GW's rules could be exciting or boring. It would be disappointing to see a Russ that encourages a static army, and equally so if we got a big loyalist version of Angron.

 

My rules ideas aren't limited to Wulfen - they just really stand out, rules wise. Visually they'll never be everyone's cup of tea.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

The "Hidden Wisdom" ability doesn't specify Wulfen. If you wanted to use it for TDA or another infantry unit that is your prerogative.  Wulfen would be the most effective unit for that ability though.

 

The Spear of Russ is a fluff thing. Apparently he hated the thing but there is a legend that he will come back wielding the Spear. It is a little garish. It looks more like a gold Custodes weapon than a Wolf King's weapon.

[The Saint Ragnar]

I feel it would be interesting if he got an increase to his heroic intervention, pile in, and consolidate moves. Possibly doubled to 6" instead of 3"? Would make him a real threat in combat as units charging near him would not be as safe as if they were charging near a regular character.

His armor should have a few additional rules akin to the -1 to hit going to a max of -2 in combat or increasing his invulnerable save to a 3++ against melta, flamer, or plasma weapons of any type. Having both of them would be a little over the top as I am not sure he has the Armour Elavagar anymore (unless GW forgets the Space Wolves found his armor).

I feel like for a ranged weapon he would still have Scornspitter as he held it (and its creator Vulkan) in high regard so I doubt he would have lost it or discarded it during his time in the Warp. Its stats could be:

Range 12", Assault 3, Strength 5, AP -3, Damage D3
Special Rule - For each wound roll of a 6+ increase the weapon's AP by one and change the damage to 3

 

He also might still have one of his old weapons lying around, either The Sword of Balenight or The Axe of Helwinter. Stats could be:

 

The Sword of Balenight -  Strength User, AP -4, Damage 2

Special Rule - For each unsaved wound from this weapon roll a D6. If you match the target's toughness the weapon generates an additional mortal wound in addition to the damage done. If you beat the target's toughness the weapon instead generates an additional D3 mortal wounds in addition to the damage done.

 

The Axe of Helwinter - Strength +2, AP -4, Damage D3

Special Rule - When targeting a VEHICLE re-roll failed wounds rolls against it. In addition, when targeting a VEHICLE roll 2D3 for damage instead of one and discard the lowest result.

 

Thoughts and CC welcome as this is all just spit-balling in my head. 

Edited March 15, 2018 by The Saint Ragnar

[Karhedron]

I am not sure he has the Armour Elavagar anymore (unless GW forgets the Space Wolves found his armor).

Given that the SWs recovered his armour, I don't see a problem with him putting it back on again. A few sentences of fluff with him at the Fang putting it on again, briefly being overcome by memories of the Great Crusade before brushing the past aside and heading out to war.

[The Saint Ragnar]

 

I am not sure he has the Armour Elavagar anymore (unless GW forgets the Space Wolves found his armor).

Given that the SWs recovered his armour, I don't see a problem with him putting it back on again. A few sentences of fluff with him at the Fang putting it on again, briefly being overcome by memories of the Great Crusade before brushing the past aside and heading out to war.

 

 

That is a pretty great way to handle that  but I thought they had modified the armor for a normal marine to wear? I cannot remember the Codex entry for the Armour of Russ. Maybe they just integrated the same technology into a regular suit of runic armour?

[Guest]

I can't imagine them taking something twice their size and being able to modify unknown tech down to a SM size. I am more in the belief the armor they found is just one of his companions. Just like the helm and belt of Russ. It's silly to imagine any SM being able to wear their primarchs helmet when they look like a 6 year old kid next to them.

[The Saint Ragnar]

I can't imagine them taking something twice their size and being able to modify unknown tech down to a SM size. I am more in the belief the armor they found is just one of his companions. Just like the helm and belt of Russ. It's silly to imagine any SM being able to wear their primarchs helmet when they look like a 6 year old kid next to them.

 

I re-read the entry for the armour from the Codex and it said it emits a chill air like Russ's armour. So it may have been forged in the image of Russ's armour just like the Belt of Russ relic every Great Company has is made to look like Russ's belt. Not too sure about the Helm but it most likely was made as part of the set for the Armour.

 

I agree that if it was actually Russ' Armour there is no way that anyone would be able to fit into it outside of another Primarch. 

[Guest]

Since we are going down the Odin route, Odin did carry the head of mimir that he carried to receive secret knowledge... Wonder if that could come into play.

[Godhead]

What if Russ came back with a spear and a shield?  That would give him the 3++.  If he has two forms I see the wolf form as being a way to deal mortal wounds, and he'd probably have the 5+++ fnp ability.  Also remember that Bobby G isn't just a typical primarch.  He is augmented by Crawl, so Russ might seem a bit underwhelming in comparison, or his ability to shapeshift might be his "augmentation".  I could realistically see loyalist primarchs be more force multipliers than straight up beat sticks, like Magnus and Mortarior (although they are a bit of force multipliers themselves).  I also see Russ having some sort of howl ability that might do mortal wounds to psykers, and some deny ability along the lines of Khorne, I doubt he'd be an actual psyker. 

[Guest]

When was RG augmented by Cawl? He got a fancy suit and some mechanisms to keep alive is all. He didn't get anything that would make him better than a normal primarch if they had the equivalent armor.

[Karhedron]

When was RG augmented by Cawl? He got a fancy suit and some mechanisms to keep alive is all. He didn't get anything that would make him better than a normal primarch if they had the equivalent armor.

I agree, Cawl's "augmentation" is simply to counteract the Slaaneshi poison still swilling around his bloodstream. If anything, BobbyG might be less than peak-Primarch due to being in constant pain.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Karhedronuk

[Ishagu]

The poison has been removed. In Dark Imperium it describes him as being healed, aside from the scar on his throat and - even though he doesn't want to admit it - a wounded soul.

 

Would Russ actually have been aged by 10k years or is he a victim of warp time meddling, perhaps to him it's been a much shorter time?

[TiguriusX]

The poison has been removed. In Dark Imperium it describes him as being healed, aside from the scar on his throat and - even though he doesn't want to admit it - a wounded soul.

 

Would Russ actually have been aged by 10k years or is he a victim of warp time meddling, perhaps to him it's been a much shorter time?

Depends on his warp experience

 

In the most recent SW Novel-Ashes of Prospero the missing 13th company has been recovered after 10k years but to them it has only been a few weeks I believe (I'd have to look it up...the point is very little time to them has passed).