Blackstone

[Battybattybats]

Ok so we know that Blackstone is a coming big deal, built on some quite old bits of lore, that our faction is right in the middle of it all and that more will be revealed in Forgebane.

I thought we should have a discussion topic on this. To speculate about where it will go, to drop info when people get their hands on the box (Spoiler tags please!), to discuss how this will fit in to our personal gaming narratives and how we'll represent it on the table.

To that last bit first, i notice that some of the Forgebane pics show the use of the old Arcane Ruins WHFB terrain. So it looks like GW is using that for Blackstone, at least for now. I'm thinking i'll use that too myself at least for now, but depending on what we get told in Forgebane the possibility of converting up excavated Blackstone or Blackstone being experimented upon technologically may allow for some great pieces of work i suspect.

So, what do you think this may mean for us and the setting? What may it mean for your own army?

[LegionOfMars]

From what I’ve seen others believe it’ll be used to give us the ability to deny the witch, considering we have no psykers this could be a huge step forward. If anyone is gonna meddle with the material it’ll be Cawl!

 

Personally; I’d love to see it twist him even more and see where that goes.

[ImperialSquishiness]

This actually helps with a narrative campaign I'm writing up for my Club. Be interested to see what fluff they give Blackstone and any rules.

[Brother Tyler]

Since blackstone isn't a product of the Adeptus Mechanicus, I'm moving this topic over to Amicus Aedes.

 

Depending upon how the new lore develops things, the topic might move over to the Necrontyr forum later.

[Ishagu]

Well, apparently Cawl is able to use it with limited success to close section of the great Rift or at least stabilise it.

 

Dark Imperium hinted it will play a large part in events to come.

[Battybattybats]

Well i've gone and ordered a single box of arcane ruins, on the offchance it'll prove useful for any of the scenario's in Forgebane. Certainly it will help when playing games fighting over Blackstone dug up on Forgeworlds to have some Blackstone dug up on the table.

I've been wanting to make some Mechanicus excavator teams out of Genestealers (seeing as they are using Imperial mining suits and gear), the Sector Mechanicus Servo-Haulers might be a good basis for some Mechanicus excavators too and if i wan't so behind on other projects i'd be rushing that one, alas it'll have to wait. Which reminds me, the Shadow War Armageddon box has lineart of designs some of which haven't been released, notably drills, and i wonder if this may be some future released Sector Mechanicus pieces connected to this story progression.

[Guest Triszin]

It opens some interesting ideas.

 

Tau:

- development of black stone drones, cause deny the witch rolls

- maybe some limited weapons applications that cause mortal wounds to deamons/psykers

 

 

Imperium

- I could see Blackstone shields being created for Marines gives a save against mortal wounds/cause deny the witch rolls

 

Necron

- pariahs coming back, retconned, living Blackstone, cause deny the witch rolls

- strategems that cause table wife deny the witch/mortal wounds to deamons

 

 

Tyranids

- Blackstone mutations, an entire hive fleet carapace is filled with Blackstone

[Master Commander Ajax]

Could there be a link between this and the Blackstone fortresses?

[Guest Triszin]

Could there be a link between this and the Blackstone fortresses?

probably

[MajorNese]

It opens some interesting ideas.

 

Tau:

- development of black stone drones, cause deny the witch rolls

- maybe some limited weapons applications that cause mortal wounds to deamons/psykers

 

 

Imperium

- I could see Blackstone shields being created for Marines gives a save against mortal wounds/cause deny the witch rolls

 

Necron

- pariahs coming back, retconned, living Blackstone, cause deny the witch rolls

- strategems that cause table wife deny the witch/mortal wounds to deamons

 

 

Tyranids

- Blackstone mutations, an entire hive fleet carapace is filled with Blackstone

Moar wishlists!!!

 

Seriously, Cawl discovering it will mean that the uppermost levels of imperial factions and Necrons know about it, and necrons are more interested in using it now. Tyranids have their own warp fields they use to coordinate the swarm, disrupting it would just wreak havoc on their own command structure, and they already have the shadow in the warp.

 

Tau have no clue what the warp is (except for "hell"), suppressed knowledge of it, and have never interacted with blackstone in their entire history. Chance is, without Carl giving guest lectures in fish universities (unlikely), they won't find any connection between "random black stone" and "gateway to hell". The only reason some imperials started seeing connections and experimenting with it in the past is the Cadian Gate, which is kind of hard to miss.

 

From what the slightly older fluff suggests, blackstone without structure is rather unusable, just carrying a black rock doesn't do anything but look weird. Even replicas of the cadian pylons (operated by human factions) needed to spend psykers on them to locally calm the warp, but created warp storms further out. That's not at all how they should work, and using such jury-rigged contraptions (compared to how they work when properly operated) wouldn't be very successful on the long run. Recent fluff retconned that Failbaddon destroyed pylons in the past, and reducing them to blackstone rubble was enough to stop them from working.

 

Still, I guess the gameplay effects of Blackstone won't show except for very few units and characters. Necrons have always had it (though pariahs would be cool), AdMech has it now with limited knowledge on just one individual. Just like the giant warp storm had no effects on the gameplay and just advanced the fluff ("oh, now we really need to ship the primaris"), I wouldn't bet on this suddenly being widespread equipment for everyone, but rather a plot point driving back the whole warp storm situation while providing an excuse for AdMech and Necrons to fight.

[Guest Triszin]

 

It opens some interesting ideas.

 

Tau:

- development of black stone drones, cause deny the witch rolls

- maybe some limited weapons applications that cause mortal wounds to deamons/psykers

 

 

Imperium

- I could see Blackstone shields being created for Marines gives a save against mortal wounds/cause deny the witch rolls

 

Necron

- pariahs coming back, retconned, living Blackstone, cause deny the witch rolls

- strategems that cause table wife deny the witch/mortal wounds to deamons

 

 

Tyranids

- Blackstone mutations, an entire hive fleet carapace is filled with Blackstone

Moar wishlists!!!

 

Seriously, Cawl discovering it will mean that the uppermost levels of imperial factions and Necrons know about it, and necrons are more interested in using it now. Tyranids have their own warp fields they use to coordinate the swarm, disrupting it would just wreak havoc on their own command structure, and they already have the shadow in the warp.

 

Tau have no clue what the warp is (except for "hell"), suppressed knowledge of it, and have never interacted with blackstone in their entire history. Chance is, without Carl giving guest lectures in fish universities (unlikely), they won't find any connection between "random black stone" and "gateway to hell". The only reason some imperials started seeing connections and experimenting with it in the past is the Cadian Gate, which is kind of hard to miss.

 

From what the slightly older fluff suggests, blackstone without structure is rather unusable, just carrying a black rock doesn't do anything but look weird. Even replicas of the cadian pylons (operated by human factions) needed to spend psykers on them to locally calm the warp, but created warp storms further out. That's not at all how they should work, and using such jury-rigged contraptions (compared to how they work when properly operated) wouldn't be very successful on the long run. Recent fluff retconned that Failbaddon destroyed pylons in the past, and reducing them to blackstone rubble was enough to stop them from working.

 

Still, I guess the gameplay effects of Blackstone won't show except for very few units and characters. Necrons have always had it (though pariahs would be cool), AdMech has it now with limited knowledge on just one individual. Just like the giant warp storm had no effects on the gameplay and just advanced the fluff ("oh, now we really need to ship the primaris"), I wouldn't bet on this suddenly being widespread equipment for everyone, but rather a plot point driving back the whole warp storm situation while providing an excuse for AdMech and Necrons to fight.

 

Tau have 4th expansion which got sucked into the warp and attacked by deamons, which was broadcasted to the entire empire, ethereals suppressed and repressed the knowledge afterwards.

 

so they have some knowledge of the warp, in conjunction with warp vehicles from humans joining the tau empire, there is bound to be a tech priest that understands the tech somehwat.

in additon there is also a INquisitor that joined the tau empire and pilots a crisis suit now, so with that knowledge they would also have more info on warp.

 

+ tau found super ancient ruins but used what they learned to imporve their tech, its hinted that they found OLD one ruins, but I think it might be interex ruins.

 

 

I could see NIDS eating it, even if they keep it to specific units, hive guard and such to have protection from warp on battlefields.

 

 

 

I really don't want to see Blackstone marines that'd be awful writing and just bad.

 

Maybe we find out that blackstone only really has an effect on the warp when in massed quantities, so we could see strapping a rocket to a blackstone chunk and flying it around to stabilize worlds in/near the rift.

 

Watch blackstone be old Necron tech.

 

They way they made it was they "captured" solar system sized segments of realspace and condensed it into solid form through ultra hightech space magics.

[Mileposter]

I hope this Blackstone material stays out of any other Codex/army. That'd be awful. Let the Mecahanicus and Necrons have their unique dynamic. Let it stay their dynamic. Leaving it just at a plot device allows it to build up and give character to these two factions. Going beyond that just makes it a gimmick. 40k has enough gimmicks.

[MajorNese]

 

so they have some knowledge of the warp, in conjunction with warp vehicles from humans joining the tau empire, there is bound to be a tech priest that understands the tech somehwat.

in additon there is also a INquisitor that joined the tau empire and pilots a crisis suit now, so with that knowledge they would also have more info on warp.

Well...the inquisition, one of the most powerful factions of the imperium, with access to forbidden knowledge, xenos technology and raw quantities of psykers, has been searching for ways to stop the warp for 10000 years. Including studying the existing pylons in action and operating blackstone replicas. Not to mention including any heretical techpriest and other resource they deem necessary. The only thing getting the job done in the end was tech support by one of the creators of the pylons, offered to the probably most inventive tech genius of the past few millenia.

 

A random lone inquisitor, a random techpriest and a few warp-capable ships couldn't top those efforts, just because Tau superiors suddenly think they need the one thing Tau have been missing in the rules since ever. That's just wishlisting.

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

I hope this Blackstone material stays out of any other Codex/army. That'd be awful. Let the Mecahanicus and Necrons have their unique dynamic. Let it stay their dynamic. Leaving it just at a plot device allows it to build up and give character to these two factions. Going beyond that just makes it a gimmick. 40k has enough gimmicks.

Blackstone fortresses are tied up with BFG, so if they are going to be making it a thing, BFG is going to have to be a thing (which I am really happy for, I havent played my SM fleet in years). As for blackstone resources and other leaked stuff, we know that Forgebane is going to be about AdMech and Necrons fighting over it to deal with the warp. And we already know that there is going to be another specialist game where salamanders are infiltrating necron labrynths.

 

Necrons are no longer an NPC faction now, which is good narrative wise.

 

PS. I just want Pariah's back as a unit. They were some of the best oldcron lore. Macabee will not be forgotten!

[Sete]

I think Ishagu might be onto something with the Blackstone Templars.

[Mileposter]

 

I hope this Blackstone material stays out of any other Codex/army. That'd be awful. Let the Mecahanicus and Necrons have their unique dynamic. Let it stay their dynamic. Leaving it just at a plot device allows it to build up and give character to these two factions. Going beyond that just makes it a gimmick. 40k has enough gimmicks.

Blackstone fortresses are tied up with BFG, so if they are going to be making it a thing, BFG is going to have to be a thing (which I am really happy for, I havent played my SM fleet in years). As for blackstone resources and other leaked stuff, we know that Forgebane is going to be about AdMech and Necrons fighting over it to deal with the warp. And we already know that there is going to be another specialist game where salamanders are infiltrating necron labrynths.

 

Necrons are no longer an NPC faction now, which is good narrative wise.

 

PS. I just want Pariah's back as a unit. They were some of the best oldcron lore. Macabee will not be forgotten!

 

I don't mean that Blackstone shouldn't exist or shouldn't be a plot point for other factions, but there's a difference between "And Blackstone fortresses exist over here." and "Blackstone is A THING that Battlefleet Gothic is entirely centered around." - Let the AdMech and Necrons have it be a THING, and it simply exists in the rest of the galaxy (because real world effects).

[Battybattybats]

Adeptus Mechanicus, Necrons and Chaos. After all Abbaddon has been messing with Blackstone for a while, breaking Pylons, stealing and corrupting Fortresses getting a fit of mad scientist chuckles over a vision of something hidden on Mars.

 

I too would find blackstone-armoured marines irksome, but I could see a future terrain kit of Blackstone with optional Mechanicus, Necron and Chaos bits and rules effects for having it neutral, anti-chaos activated or chaos-enhancement activated, with ways to shift it between the three when captured.

[Guest]

I think Ishagu might be onto something with the Blackstone Templars.

SM Supplement: Black Templars. Featuring new BT Blackstone Shield Templars! Lol

[Saxxon the Dragoon]

 

 

I hope this Blackstone material stays out of any other Codex/army. That'd be awful. Let the Mecahanicus and Necrons have their unique dynamic. Let it stay their dynamic. Leaving it just at a plot device allows it to build up and give character to these two factions. Going beyond that just makes it a gimmick. 40k has enough gimmicks.

Blackstone fortresses are tied up with BFG, so if they are going to be making it a thing, BFG is going to have to be a thing (which I am really happy for, I havent played my SM fleet in years). As for blackstone resources and other leaked stuff, we know that Forgebane is going to be about AdMech and Necrons fighting over it to deal with the warp. And we already know that there is going to be another specialist game where salamanders are infiltrating necron labrynths.

 

Necrons are no longer an NPC faction now, which is good narrative wise.

 

PS. I just want Pariah's back as a unit. They were some of the best oldcron lore. Macabee will not be forgotten!

 

I don't mean that Blackstone shouldn't exist or shouldn't be a plot point for other factions, but there's a difference between "And Blackstone fortresses exist over here." and "Blackstone is A THING that Battlefleet Gothic is entirely centered around." - Let the AdMech and Necrons have it be a THING, and it simply exists in the rest of the galaxy (because real world effects).

 

 

With the way the community site worded their article, they are making it seem like the Necrons are trying to recover blackstone so they can build new pylons, or even potentially build new blackstone fortresses.

[RikuEru]

I hope this Blackstone material stays out of any other Codex/army. That'd be awful. Let the Mecahanicus and Necrons have their unique dynamic. Let it stay their dynamic. Leaving it just at a plot device allows it to build up and give character to these two factions. Going beyond that just makes it a gimmick. 40k has enough gimmicks.

I get what you are saying. And I get why you are saying it and I generally agree with it. But...

 

Did no one else read the article and think that GW will push this as the theme for the NEW SUMMER CAMPAIGN!?

"{*put your faction here*} is marching out to...

...aid the Adeptus Mechanicus amass Blackstone, so they can build safe passageways through the rift your faction can use (/abuse).

...aid the Necrons in reclaiming their old heritage - and damage the Imperium and Chaos in turn.

...aid Abaddon and the Chaos Lords in gathering Blackstone, an incredible boon when fighting with the Warp!

...or is your faction just amassing Blackstone for their own selfish reasons?!"

 

"You and your newcomer friend want to participate right at the forefront of this conflict? Buy Forgebane + Starter Box Necrons + Starter Box Mechanicus and you are both good to go!"

 

With the plan being to build artificial pylons along the Scar, on both sides, you have a reason to involve all factions.

Why do the Tau care? Well, because it happens on their territory or they want blackstone for scientific purposes (maybe at a means to stabilize their travel wormholes or so?)

The Tyranids just fight anyone, like usual, because both warp-denying and warp-enhancing blackstone is a threat to their powers.

Orks want to fight for it, to deny both the Imperium and their ancient enemy, the Necrons, access to it and maybe use it as a means to amplify their Waaaagh Energy?

 

It's not necessarily what I'd like to see, but it's the way I could see it going, especially in comparison to the current AoS Campaign.

[Panzer]

 

Tau:

- development of black stone drones, cause deny the witch rolls

- maybe some limited weapons applications that cause mortal wounds to deamons/psykers

 

 

 

Tau have no clue what the warp is (except for "hell"), suppressed knowledge of it, and have never interacted with blackstone in their entire history. Chance is, without Carl giving guest lectures in fish universities (unlikely), they won't find any connection between "random black stone" and "gateway to hell". The only reason some imperials started seeing connections and experimenting with it in the past is the Cadian Gate, which is kind of hard to miss.

 

 

 

The T'au themselves maybe, but you forget that the T'au Empire is not just T'au. They do have psychic allies and some of their allies might even know about the special properties of Blackstone.

It's not too farfetched that the T'au Empire eventually creates something out of Blackstone to help against Daemons and Psykers. Blackstone Drones to give them a Deny the Witch roll sounds like a perfect addition on the crunch-side later on.

[Charlo]

I can see this being a kick-off for a Campaign. Warzones for Blackstone all over the galaxy with victors who amass the most having an effect on the story*

 

 

 

in additon there is also a INquisitor that joined the tau empire and pilots a crisis suit now, so with that knowledge they would also have more info on warp.

 

Okay - that is real cool.

 

*As if. The story will be set in stone and models prepared for all eventualities just release order will change.

[Mileposter]

I hope this Blackstone material stays out of any other Codex/army. That'd be awful. Let the Mecahanicus and Necrons have their unique dynamic. Let it stay their dynamic. Leaving it just at a plot device allows it to build up and give character to these two factions. Going beyond that just makes it a gimmick. 40k has enough gimmicks.

 

 

I get what you are saying. And I get why you are saying it and I generally agree with it. But...

 

Did no one else read the article and think that GW will push this as the theme for the NEW SUMMER CAMPAIGN!?

"{*put your faction here*} is marching out to...

...aid the Adeptus Mechanicus amass Blackstone, so they can build safe passageways through the rift your faction can use (/abuse).

...aid the Necrons in reclaiming their old heritage - and damage the Imperium and Chaos in turn.

...aid Abaddon and the Chaos Lords in gathering Blackstone, an incredible boon when fighting with the Warp!

[snip]

See, I actually like these suggestions. It being the basis of a summer campaign doesn't breach my concern - because there are totally ways to do a summer campaign without putting Blackstone Cannons in everyone's hands. Your first three suggestions, quoted above, showcase this perfectly: Each starts off with "Aid the...". Makes the campaign still centered around the AdMech and Necrons - makes it still their THING^TM but gives everyone a way to participate. Similar to Konor in that regard, which I thought was an overall good way to handle things.

 

Also, obligatory yeah for a Campaign not centered on Space Marines. Thank you.

 

And I think the whole thing would be a successful gambit, for the reason you already gave:

 

With the plan being to build artificial pylons along the Scar, on both sides, you have a reason to involve all factions.

This to me doesn't spell any negatives, but entirely positives. Let Blackstone affect the setting. Let it generate a story. But let the AdMech and Necrons hold the spotlight a little bit while it does, and let it affect the setting in a way that means something other than "And you get a space car! And you get a space car! And you get a space car! Everyone gets a space car!". That method is what will feel cheap.

 

And if they do go through with that, it speaks to their ability to feature events and stories beyond their beloved Space Marines - which, while they are required to be the poster boys, don't have to be featured so heavily that their Xenos players have to be left out. This is a great way to get players of the other factions a warm feeling of inclusion for once.

 

... Oops, there I go again. Having opinions on the internet.

[Skaorn]

For your blackstoned marines, there is a cream for that. Two weeks of regular treatment will clear it right up.

 

GW might actually run a campaign based on the current AoS style, which might be a good way to compensate for the weight imperial numbers in the game. You could have one side not wanting to screw things up even more by using it, another trying to seal off the Warp, and another wanting to harness the Warp. It would actually be a reason for actual SM vs SM violence as one chapter is looking to seal the rift while another is accusing them of tech and Xeno heresy.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Aren't the Blackstone Fortresses Eldar in origin? They were forged by Vaul to fight the Necrons IIRC?