Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc

[Scribe]

2 hours ago, Taliesin said:

 

The afterword to the book specifically mentions it will be 2 volumes......

 

There is a difference between the printed, and ebook versions that leaves with the Abnett interview room to doubt.

[EverythingIsGreat]

There is also another angle to this. In the background the 40K universe is more or less neatly described as having a succession of eras. Such categorisations may actually apply to a fictional universe as much as historical eras actually apply to real-world history (i.e. not at all). The so called Horus Heresy Era supposedly finished with the conclusion of the Siege of Terra. The Horus Heresy plotline on the other hand may be much more harder to fix. When exactly does this conflict end and WH40K proper start? There are the arbitrary mile posts of course, but WH40K according to the background is the result of WH30K, so there is a direct relationship, perhaps made a bit more apparent with the Dark King/Yellow King possible plot line. Stating this another way, do BL books have to be part of the "Siege of Terra Series" to be directly related to it?

Which brings up the question of whether the SoT will actually end plot-wise. As the 30K/40K background fills in, more explanatory volumes may appear. Even "Siege of Terra Series" labelled volumes. I mean, is HH Book 55 etc. never ever an option for BL? After all, this was not strictly a chronologically numbered series.

 

[Scribe]

28 minutes ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

Even "Siege of Terra Series" labelled volumes.

 

I mean they could, certainly. They bastardized the HH, and the SoT already with extra books. BL is anything but consistent and organized.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Here’s my hope, I’m thinking the next bequin book will release within 3 months of 10th edition’s release.

and while not set in the era indomitus, I think it will definitely have an effect on the era indomitus.

 

they can’t bring someone that big into being active in the universe without it effecting the rest of the universe can they?

[cheywood]

20 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Here’s my hope, I’m thinking the next bequin book will release within 3 months of 10th edition’s release.

and while not set in the era indomitus, I think it will definitely have an effect on the era indomitus.

 

they can’t bring someone that big into being active in the universe without it effecting the rest of the universe can they?

Based on Abnett’s comment in his most recent ToW interview it sounds like he’s currently writing Pandemonium, which would mean the book will likely be released next year. Could be wrong as he’s pretty vague about what the current project is, but I think the timeline roughly matches up given he was previously working on Interceptor City and then spent a year or so writing TEaTD. 

[Felix Antipodes]

7 hours ago, cheywood said:

Based on Abnett’s comment in his most recent ToW interview it sounds like he’s currently writing Pandemonium, which would mean the book will likely be released next year. Could be wrong as he’s pretty vague about what the current project is, but I think the timeline roughly matches up given he was previously working on Interceptor City and then spent a year or so writing TEaTD. 

Yeah, I think we will see Interceptor City before Pandemonium and I don't think we will see either of them this year.

[System Sound]

5 hours ago, Felix Antipodes said:

Yeah, I think we will see Interceptor City before Pandemonium and I don't think we will see either of them this year.

Black Library Celebration 2024. One of them will either be revealed or up for pre order.

[DukeLeto69]

5 hours ago, System Sound said:

Black Library Celebration 2024. One of them will either be revealed or up for pre order.

I wish it was sooner than 2024 announcement!

[EverythingIsGreat]

Good day,

 

I haven't gone through every post on this thread so forgive me if this point has been raised before. The title is interesting. "Pandemonium" colloquially means "wild/noisy disorder and confusion", or "chaos" (er...). Etymologically and literally it means "every demon" or "all the demons". According to various sources "demons" in Ancient Greece were normally lesser supernatural entities (i.e. below gods), however some philosophers apparently equated "demon" with "mind".  I believe one of the charges against Socrates was that he "introduced new demons". Some eggheads, noting he used to be a Sun-God worshipper, state this charge meant he was corrupting the established Pantheon. Others however think the term also meant he was corrupting accepted philosophy by introducing "new thought". In this sense, "pandemonium" means the "result of unruly/chaotic (er...) thought".

Wonder what Abnett has in mind.

[TrevorLoLz]

Given how long Pentitent took to be released, I can't see Pandaemonium being released this year or next, not while The End and the Death Volume 2 is Black Library's priority.

[cheywood]

2 minutes ago, TrevorLoLz said:

Given how long Pentitent took to be released, I can't see Pandaemonium being released this year or next, not while The End and the Death Volume 2 is Black Library's priority.

The End and the Death is already entirely written, and the gap between Pariah and Penitent was because Abnett stepped away from BL entirely for a number of years. Abnett also explicitly stated the gap between novels will be much shorter this time. 

[TrevorLoLz]

On 4/7/2023 at 10:29 AM, cheywood said:

The End and the Death is already entirely written, and the gap between Pariah and Penitent was because Abnett stepped away from BL entirely for a number of years. Abnett also explicitly stated the gap between novels will be much shorter this time. 

Ah ok - that's good then.  I'm probably more keen for Pandaemonium than I am EatD Vol 2.

[DukeLeto69]

32 minutes ago, TrevorLoLz said:

Ah ok - that's good then.  I'm probably more keen for Pandaemonium than I am EatD Vol 2.

Yeah me too!

 

I think the initial delay b/w Pariah and Penitent was certainly initially down to Abnett pulling away from BL. However, I speculate that the delay was extended further due to the studio/GW actually waking up to the ramifications of what they had agreed Abnett could do with a certain character(s) and decided to feed that into the lore development for W40k 10th ed. I think that has also impacted on timings for Pandaemonium (along with the necessary teeing up via TEatD volumes). 

[SteveAntilles]

On 4/8/2023 at 1:25 AM, TrevorLoLz said:

Ah ok - that's good then.  I'm probably more keen for Pandaemonium than I am EatD Vol 2.

I am so frickin ready for the Heresy/Siege to be over. Let Abnett write more Inquisition/Gaunt's Ghosts dangit!

[DukeLeto69]

I am keeping my fingers crossed that we get Pandaemonium in 2024 now that tEatD is finished and the set up is done.

 

But the real reason I am reviving this thread is a little discovery I just made by accident.

 

I was looking at the Dark Heresy RPG 2nd Ed rulebook and realised that the Askellon Sector is bordered by the Scarus Sector and is “cursed with a seemingly unending Warp Storm known as the Pandaemonium that waxes and wanes across the millennia”

 

Ok could be a coincidence except that DH 2nd Ed contains a short story called Into The Dark by none other than Dan Abnett.

 

Makes me wonder if the lore in DH 2nd Ed (which Abnett also helped write) contains any more clues? The core rulebook book came out in 2014 and the novel Pariah was released in 2012.

[EverythingIsGreat]

Funny you should mention that. Dark Heresy: Daemon Hunter (2011) a 1st ed. supplement, mentions the Pandaemonia, major daemon-trapping devices utilized by Ordo Malleus. Abnett AFAIK wasn't involved with the particular supplement. Not saying that this bit of lore is 100% pertinent, but it is part of the IP, to be used as needed.

 

[EverythingIsGreat]

After discussing with a friend who was into the RPG and has several books.

Abnett was involved in the 1st edition of Dark Heresy after all. He is credited as a writer in the Core Rulebook (2008), and elsewhere.

The Pandaemonium storm's provenance FF/GW leave a bit... murky, the book mentions the usual (truth lost in legend and myth etc.). The section "Rise of the Pandaemonium" starts in page 321 of the 2nd ed. Core Rulebook.

Basically, the warp anomalies in the area (Askellon Sector) started during the Great Crusade and the sector's compliance. After the Horus Heresy and for many millennia, it was not realized they were just one big warp storm. Navigator Houses gave it that name btw. 

 

The Pandemonia (the number is not clear) in the 1st ed. are in the neighboring Callixis Sector.

[DukeLeto69]

3 hours ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

After discussing with a friend who was into the RPG and has several books.

Abnett was involved in the 1st edition of Dark Heresy after all. He is credited as a writer in the Core Rulebook (2008), and elsewhere.

The Pandaemonium storm's provenance FF/GW leave a bit... murky, the book mentions the usual (truth lost in legend and myth etc.). The section "Rise of the Pandaemonium" starts in page 321 of the 2nd ed. Core Rulebook.

Basically, the warp anomalies in the area (Askellon Sector) started during the Great Crusade and the sector's compliance. After the Horus Heresy and for many millennia, it was not realized they were just one big warp storm. Navigator Houses gave it that name btw. 

 

The Pandemonia (the number is not clear) in the 1st ed. are in the neighboring Callixis Sector.

This is good stuff and there has to be a link. You were quick off the mark as I have not yet looked further. I have every book for all of the FFG RPGs so will do some digging when I get time.

 

I suspect Pandaemonium will have more than one meaning.

 

We also know that The City of Dust and The Inevitable City are the same thing.

Edited February 15 by DukeLeto69

[DukeLeto69]

16 hours ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

Funny you should mention that. Dark Heresy: Daemon Hunter (2011) a 1st ed. supplement, mentions the Pandaemonia, major daemon-trapping devices utilized by Ordo Malleus. Abnett AFAIK wasn't involved with the particular supplement. Not saying that this bit of lore is 100% pertinent, but it is part of the IP, to be used as needed.

 

I believe the term “Pandaemonia” means All Daemons.

 

”Pandaemonium” is the City of Daemons, Every/All Daemons, or All Daemon Place, or the Capital of Hell in Milton’s Paradise Lost.

 

”Pandemonium” (check spelling) means wild and noisy disorder or confusion and uproar.

So as I said above I think Abnett intends for this word to simultaneously mean different things and work on multiple levels.

 

Had a look through DH 2nd Ed and nothing particularly jumped out to link more closely into the Bequin books than already noted. But I do not think this is coincidence given the author, location, and real world publishing timing.

 

Incidentally(and already mentioned several pages back in this thread) Pandaemonium was designed by Mulciber who in Roman times was another name for Vulkan the Roman God).

 

Edited February 15 by DukeLeto69

[EverythingIsGreat]

Well practically the entire Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Beguin sagas happen in or close to the sectors near Pandaemonium (the warp storm). "Pandaemonia" (the devices mentioned in 1st edition is just the plural of Pandaemonium.

 

In the Dark Heresy lore, the "Tyrant Star" (a "Black Sun") is interesting. It reminds me a bit of the darkkingblackball. The effects seem similar. Also interesting that the Pandaemonium anomaly was said to be first detected in the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era. I wonder if this was setup for a causal relationship to be exploited in the future. 

 

3 hours ago, DukeLeto69 said:

ncidentally(and already mentioned several pages back in this thread) Pandaemonium was designed by Mulciber who in Roman times was another name for Vulkan the Roman God).

 

That is correct, but this is Milton's construct. He calls the "Capital" city of Hell Pandaemonium in Paradise Lost.

[DukeLeto69]

2 hours ago, EverythingIsGreat said:

Well practically the entire Eisenhorn/Ravenor/Beguin sagas happen in or close to the sectors near Pandaemonium (the warp storm). "Pandaemonia" (the devices mentioned in 1st edition is just the plural of Pandaemonium.

 

In the Dark Heresy lore, the "Tyrant Star" (a "Black Sun") is interesting. It reminds me a bit of the darkkingblackball. The effects seem similar. Also interesting that the Pandaemonium anomaly was said to be first detected in the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era. I wonder if this was setup for a causal relationship to be exploited in the future. 

 

 

That is correct, but this is Milton's construct. He calls the "Capital" city of Hell Pandaemonium in Paradise Lost.

You may just be agreeing with me but are also repeating me?
 

Your last point on Milton Paradise Lost erm yeah I know, did you read my post? 
 

And yep Scarus borders Askellon as per my earlier post.

 

Anyway, I don’t remotely believe this is coincidence.

 

Edit - ha ha just read back and saw that you posted in April 23 saying about the meaning of Pandaemonium so I was repeating you!

 

BUT

 

You admit to not reading the thread and if you had you would have seen most/all of your points had been made so…

 

You were repeating them LOL

 

All good. All interesting. Can’t wait for Pandaemonium to come out.

Edited February 15 by DukeLeto69