Speculation & spoilers regarding The Magos, Pariah etc

[QuintusSertorius]

 

 

I don't think he's physically fixed in any way, because he shows up with the same impassive face and leg braces in Pariah. My feeling was that Drusher saw a psychic impression of Eisenhorn smiling.

 

I didn't get that impression at all:

 

 

Drusher shook his hand.

'You look well, inquisitor,' he said. 'Better than you did when I first met you. Which, given what we've endured, is quite something. You seem stronger.'

'I am'

'You've been tempered by this too, then?'

'I think so,' said Eisenhorn. 'I feel stronger than I have in years. Ready to face the endgame.'

'Is that a good thing?' asked Drusher.

'Yes,' Eisenhorn said. He smiled.

'I don't think I've ever seen you smile before,' said Drusher.

'It's not something I've done in a long time,' said Eisenhorn.

 

That strongly implies to me that he's been healed and had been strengthened by his experience with the Loom. No suggestion that it was a projection or the like.

 

 

 

He has a clear subconscious reason to not want to see one of these men in particular. 

 

 

The former certainly, but the latter?

[1ncarnadine]

That strongly implies to me that he's been healed and had been strengthened by his experience with the Loom. No suggestion that it was a projection or the like.

 

I don't think there's anything in that passage pointing either way. My evidence is still his appearance in the book set after this one.

 

 

“I looked at the man. He was regarding me with no expression.”

Excerpt From: Dan Abnett. “Pariah.” iBooks. 

 

 

“Your face shows no emotion, sir,’ I said. I had been trying hard to read it.”

“That’s right,’ he said. ‘It doesn’t any more.”

 

Excerpt From: Dan Abnett. “Pariah.” iBooks.

 

So it seems unlikely that he's healed, and another explanation should to be looked for (unless the smile is a continuity error and not a deliberate choice..). We do know that at the end of The Magos, Eisenhorn has underwent a profound psychic experience, and seems to have awakened more latent psyker potential. It's also common that powerful psykers in this universe have faces that seem to shift or take on different aspects and expressions, sometimes depending on who's observing them. I think it's also noteworthy that Bequin is an untouchable, and wouldn't pick up on any of that.

 

 

The former certainly, but the latter?

 

Perhaps it implies Eisenhorn didn't consider Maxilla important enough to him, personally? He is a man who didn't place much value on personal connections... I'm going off a poor memory, but I remember that as being a big theme in the novel

Edited December 21, 2018 by LetsYouDown

[QuintusSertorius]

I don't think there's anything in that passage pointing either way. My evidence is still his appearance in the book set after this one.

 

So it seems unlikely that he's healed, and another explanation should to be looked for (unless the smile is a continuity error and not a deliberate choice..). We do know that at the end of The Magos, Eisenhorn has underwent a profound psychic experience, and seems to have awakened more latent psyker potential. It's also common that powerful psykers in this universe have faces that seem to shift or take on different aspects and expressions, sometimes depending on who's observing them. I think it's also noteworthy that Bequin is an untouchable, and wouldn't pick up on any of that.

That assumes Abnett never makes mistakes, which he clearly does (and has admitted as much before). See the Tanith sniper Merrt, stated as killed by a headshot on Monthax in First and Only, later ret-conned to a jaw wound that ruined his marksmanship.

 

Also worth pointing out that we're dealing with the fundamental powers of creation itself here, patching up some mere injury is trivial compared to the other things Enuncia has been shown to do. It was used to completely heal Molotch of much more severe injuries well beyond the scope of the most advanced medicine in setting. We also have evidence of some sort of change by the way his eyes changed colour for a time, much as Golbeka's eyes did.

 

I chalk it down to a continuity error caused by writing a prequel after Pariah. Abnett says in the introduction that The Magos pretty much wrote itself, which would explain that sort of occurrence. That potentially makes future appearances of Eisenhorn uncertain in which interpretation will be carried forward.

 

Perhaps it implies Eisenhorn didn't consider Maxilla important enough to him, personally? He is a man who didn't place much value on personal connections... I'm going off a poor memory, but I remember that as being a big theme in the novel

Seems a strange omission given how moving that scene was, rich with sentiment for all of those he was close to. He confided in Maxilla and turned to him for help in very dark times, he'd surely have been closer than Inshabel, for example, who was a protege. Edited December 21, 2018 by QuintusSertorius

[DukeLeto69]

So on Twitter Andrei (the guy the got banned from B&C but cannot remember his handle) said Abnett had confirmed at Black Library Live in November that he was currently writing Penitent. Has anyone else seen any confirmation of this? Andrei said Abnett's schedule was Penitent, HH, Interceptor City, HH.

[FirstSonofHorus]

I felt the smile at the end was a hint that something changed. It stood out as a moment and I don't think Abnett would have forgotten

[DukeLeto69]

I felt the smile at the end was a hint that something changed. It stood out as a moment and I don't think Abnett would have forgotten

 

I agree. I think it was totally symbolic. Abnett forgetting he had killed a relatively minor character in the GG series and using him again (still as a relatiively minor character until much later in the series) is not the same as forgetting a major physical character trait of the lead character in a series (with substantially fewer books).

Edited December 21, 2018 by DukeLeto69

[Xisor]

I took it to be an indication of daemonic/Chaos intervention.

 

The encounter with the loom meant Eisenhorn was poured full of raw Chaos. Not trivial or tawdry demonic possession, but something more abstract and more subtle.

 

Eisenhorn is credibly strong enough to survive it, and even be invigorated as a consequence of the thrill alone, riding the psychic high, possibly, or something stranger still. (See also: faith healers "curing" the disabled to WALK FREE! from the "curse" of their wheelchair on stage in front of dozens of thousands of faithful...)

 

But the whole point of Pariah is that he's now indistinguishable from what the Inquisition accuse him with.

 

He's commune with raw Chaos: the very power, he's corrupt and in cahoots with actual daemons.

 

But is that any different from the Emperor? From Horst and Greyfax? From Guilliman and his curious compact with Ynnead and the armour of Fate and Cawl's machinations.

 

I felt like the smile was casting doubt around that line of thinking and posing the question that as of Pariah: what is Eisenhorn's state? How compromised is he? How much good can he still do for the Imperium?

 

As evidenced by the Magos, obviously a lot. But the Magos also precipitated a step change in Eisenhorn's exposure and severity.

 

So given that what Eisenhorn did in the Magos can't exactly be casually replicated...

 

It felt very deliberate to me.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Xisor

[Taliesin]

So on Twitter Andrei (the guy the got banned from B&C but cannot remember his handle) said Abnett had confirmed at Black Library Live in November that he was currently writing Penitent. Has anyone else seen any confirmation of this? Andrei said Abnett's schedule was Penitent, HH, Interceptor City, HH.

 

It does seem very likely that he's now doing Penitent first, based on the fact that his HH novel will be the last one so he doesn't need to start that right now.

In other interviews ( like one posted by warhammer tv a while back), he does mention wanting to write Penitent soon but then straightaway refers to their being the business of the Siege of Terra as well. So there's not a clearcut answer but Penitent being written right now seems more likely.

 

I'd also say Andrey's reporting is probably correct as he is very interested in abnett and wants to know this sort of stuff himself.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Taliesin

[DarkChaplain]

Wasn't there also mention of Abnett writing two HH things, with one being at the end of the list? Chances are he might simply have a Primarchs novel in the works somewhere in there. He doesn't really do novellas and short stories don't usually end up in to do lists like those, so I think we can discount both of those options for now.

[DukeLeto69]

I know this is threadromancy so please forgive me brothers but I really didn't want to start another thread...

 

Some further info to throw into the mix around who The Yellow King might be based on reading Anarch and also Graham McNeil's The Crimson King.

 

In spoilers because of stuff I talk about re Anarch. If you haven't read it yet then suggest you don't read these spoilers!

 

On page 69 of the MMPB of The Crimson King, Magnus and an avatar of Lorgar are walking through all that remains of the great libraries of Tizca and see a book on the shelf called "The Amber Regent" that Lorgar claims to know. He is about to open it when Magnus says "Careful brother it is a cursed tale within a tale. Legend tells it will drive a man madness simply by reading the opening line." This is clearly a reference to the real world The King in Yellow by Robert W. Chambers.

 

Why would McNeil include that if it was not planting a tiny seed to help the meta narrative Abnett is producing?

 

As an aside having googled The King in Yellow I only just found out about the HBO series True Detective with Woody Harrelson and Matthew McConaughty which it appears also takes cues and ideas from this book of short stories! Wonder if Abnett feels a bit peeved to have had his idea of referencing an obscure book now part of a big budget TV series?

 

Anyhow...I would argue the small section in The Crimson King is another supporting argument for Lorgar to be The Yellow King (he himself being Golden complexion after all).

 

Regarding Anarch...

 

I loved the passages we got giving more explanation about chaos and the Sanguinary tribes and their beliefs. The fact that the Archonate (nice real world nod to Caliphate) recognises The Emp as a prophet but not as a God (another real world nod to Muslims recognising Jesus as a prophet but not the son of God). He is a prophet due to his understanding of chaos and his discourse etc with the Pantheon.

 

Also, Milo talks about fate and the God Emperor operating through others (implied steering - must find exact passage).

 

This all leads me to further support my theory that TYK is actually the GE or an avatar of the GE - in other words the GE is "alive" and still operating on another level beyond the material realm and still interfering or steering the human race and events to help the species survive.

 

Man I hope we still get Pentitent by the end of this year and Abnett is not pulled away to finish Siege of Terra stuff first.

[DukeLeto69]

 

So on Twitter Andrei (the guy the got banned from B&C but cannot remember his handle) said Abnett had confirmed at Black Library Live in November that he was currently writing Penitent. Has anyone else seen any confirmation of this? Andrei said Abnett's schedule was Penitent, HH, Interceptor City, HH.

 

 

It does seem very likely that he's now doing Penitent first, based on the fact that his HH novel will be the last one so he doesn't need to start that right now.

In other interviews ( like one posted by warhammer tv a while back), he does mention wanting to write Penitent soon but then straightaway refers to their being the business of the Siege of Terra as well. So there's not a clearcut answer but Penitent being written right now seems more likely.

 

I'd also say Andrey's reporting is probably correct as he is very interested in abnett and wants to know this sort of stuff himself.

This was covered in the Anarch thread but Abnett told Trackofwords...

 

"DA: Another Sabbat project, plus the next of the Bequin books (Penitent), the long awaited second book of the third ‘Inquisitor trilogy’. That’s well underway, but I might have to pause it because my next big scheduled job is The Siege of Terra for the Horus Heresy. That will be very schedule-sensitive…and a very big deal indeed."

 

As I said on the Anarch thread I am pretty certain the "Sabbat project" is Dan editing Matt Farrer's Urdesh book. I just hope and pray Pentitent gets finished as that is more exciting TO ME than Siege of Terra (though that is cool too).

[DarkChaplain]

I just hope he'll actually write and finish Penitent first because that was actually planned as a trilogy from the start, advertised as such, to the point of showcasing the next volume's cover art at the back of the Pariah hardback, and then didn't actually follow it up for 6, going on 7 years. Titanicus and co could use sequels, sure, but they work damn well without them, as one-offs even without the rest of the Sabbat setting. Penitent really doesn't, and while it is expected that Gaunt's Ghosts and the Horus Heresy take precedence, I'd be extremely upset about Penitent being delayed yet again, in favor of something else that hasn't left people hanging with burning questions for over half a decade. It's not GRRM-level bad, obviously, but it's annoying enough as-is.

 

....bad enough that BL's hardcovers don't even match Pariah's format anymore, and haven't for what, five years? Even when Penitent releases, chances are, it won't go nicely next to the first hardback. And here I thought I'd go for hb on that trilogy to get in early instead of having to wait a year every time to pick up the trade paperbacks... Not salty at all.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka
Removed off-topic chatter.

[Taliesin]

Hopefully Pariah will be re-released as hardback when Penitent comes out.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Taliesin
Removed off-topic chatter.

[Plasmablasts]

Just had a thought about the King in Yellow question. Further back in the thread, someone commented that Eisenhorn is now a Xanthite, a radical whose philosophy is that chaos can be used to fight itself without inevitably corrupting the user. From the Inquisitor rule book (which inspired the Eisenhorn books originally), the Xanthite philosophy was named after Inquisitor Xanthus, who originally espoused it in M32.

 

Xanthos is the Greek for “yellow”.

 

Also noted that Molitor, the radical inquisitor in Xenos, wears black and yellow and has yellow pupils.

 

I think Abnett is making the connection between the colour yellow and the Xanthite tendency that Eisenhorn drifts towards.

[DukeLeto69]

@plasmablasts nice theory and great detective work. I would have said highly plausble but why would Abnett need to get permission from GW/BL to do what he intends? (See earlier in thread reference to Abnett video interview)

 

Same goes for any abnettverse character. He could just do it. Seeking permission means something/someone big with setting/IP ramifications.

[Plasmablasts]

Yes - I don’t think the yellow - Xanthite link is the whole story, but it feels like a part of the puzzle and it (the idea that the King in Yellow is a Xanthite Inquisitor or any one of a series of Xanthite Inquisitors) would seem to fit with Ravenor’s prediction that the KiY is what Eisenhorn might become.

 

The idea of a long history of “Kings in Yellow” could tie into something big in 30k/40k lore, but I’m not sure what it would be. Perhaps back to the founders of the Inquisition?

[QuintusSertorius]

Ironic that Quixos was a Xanthite, and in defeating him, that's what Eisenhorn became.

[Moonreaper666]

Yes - I don’t think the yellow - Xanthite link is the whole story, but it feels like a part of the puzzle and it (the idea that the King in Yellow is a Xanthite Inquisitor or any one of a series of Xanthite Inquisitors) would seem to fit with Ravenor’s prediction that the KiY is what Eisenhorn might become.

 

The idea of a long history of “Kings in Yellow” could tie into something big in 30k/40k lore, but I’m not sure what it would be. Perhaps back to the founders of the Inquisition?

It wouldn't surprise me if ANOTHER founder was corrupted by Chaos, just like Morianna

 

(Though the main difference is that Morianna was corrupt from the start while the other one ended up corrupted after centuries)

 

This other founder was killed by his apprentice who takes his place as one of the four Inquisitor Lords

 

 

 

Why do I get the feeling that for Eisenhorn to beat the main villain, he has to completely fall to Chaos?

 

(Perhaps read a certain Yellow Book that gives him power at a price)

 

 

 

Then Ravenor has to 'euthanize' Eisenhorn

 

 

Flash forward centuries later, a dying Radical Ravenor has fallen to Chaos by reading the same yellow book...

 

...and has to be 'euthanize' by either Bequin or another apprentice starting the whole cycle again

 

 

It is Grimdark and shows the ultimate fate of all Inquisitors that live too long. The Yellow King represents Inquisitors and others that have fallen to Chaos while fighting it

 

 

Cherubael narrates this tale to Morianna who then tells him that one day the 'chain' will break and Chaos would win

 

 

Cherubael then 'meets' either Bequin or Ravenor's Successor and STARTS the ENTIRE Eisenhorn and Ravenor storyline ALL OVER AGAIN!

 

(Bonus points if the new Inquisitors/Retinues are codenamed Eisernhorn and Ravernor)

[DarkChaplain]

I don't really know how to properly address that, besides a simple "No, thank you"...

[QuintusSertorius]

Has anyone ever attempted to explain how a blank's limiter works? Or for that matter what form it takes?

 

 

I always thought the limiter Frauka wears was like a torc around his neck, but one of the wikis suggests it is actually an implant in his neck. Which wasn't the impression I got reading the Ravenor series.

 

 

I can't for the life of me remember what the blunt in Playing Patience had for a limiter.

Edited April 1, 2019 by QuintusSertorius

[FirstSonofHorus]

Limiters were always a stupid idea. They feel too convenient. Frauka was a great character though.

[Taliesin]

Just listened to the Voxcast interview with Abnett. Pretty interesting. Some stuff we have seen covered before of course.

 

But he mentioned that two things he would very much like o write are a Unification Wars novel, and a Scouring/After the Heresy clean-up novel.

Has been trying for some time for a UW novel apparently. Would love to see that as I mentioned before.

 

Also spoke quite a bit about Penitent, which really seems like it's not far off from the way he spoke. He mentioned it contains his biggest surprise yet and even detailed that that surprise is what he had to ask approval for, and that approval was give,n, and its now in the book. 

[Felix Antipodes]

Just listened to the Voxcast interview with Abnett. Pretty interesting. Some stuff we have seen covered before of course.

 

But he mentioned that two things he would very much like o write are a Unification Wars novel, and a Scouring/After the Heresy clean-up novel.

Has been trying for some time for a UW novel apparently. Would love to see that as I mentioned before.

 

Also spoke quite a bit about Penitent, which really seems like it's not far off from the way he spoke. He mentioned it contains his biggest surprise yet and even detailed that that surprise is what he had to ask approval for, and that approval was give,n, and its now in the book.

 

Said he was about halfway through Pariah ATT, so wouldn't expect it before years end at earliest. Can't wait for it to arrive tho. Fingers crossed that he will eventually get a thumbs up for either a UW or Scouring novel as he wanted.

[Taliesin]

 

Just listened to the Voxcast interview with Abnett. Pretty interesting. Some stuff we have seen covered before of course.

 

But he mentioned that two things he would very much like o write are a Unification Wars novel, and a Scouring/After the Heresy clean-up novel.

Has been trying for some time for a UW novel apparently. Would love to see that as I mentioned before.

 

Also spoke quite a bit about Penitent, which really seems like it's not far off from the way he spoke. He mentioned it contains his biggest surprise yet and even detailed that that surprise is what he had to ask approval for, and that approval was give,n, and its now in the book.

Said he was about halfway through Pariah ATT, so wouldn't expect it before years end at earliest.

 

 

Not sure what you mean here? Did he say how far he was with Penitence and I missed it?

[Felix Antipodes]

Mea culpa, it was Penitence is said he was halfway through not Pariah. It was at the (approx) 29.20 point of the interview.