First battle with new Codex (list 2.0 up)

[depthcharge12]

Just had my first new Codex list game against my BA friend who runs a mean list. I was only able to beat him last game with Krieg by tabling him as he outscores me with inexpensive spammed scout squads :D

 

 

Here was my list:

Spoiler!

2000 pts - Vior’la (8 CPs)

 

BATTALION DETACHMENT

 

>XV8 Commander Raa’M’Lath (humble teacher), Warlord, Academy Luminary

+3 MP, 1 velocity tracker (Kauyon babysit)

 

>Fireblade

 

>10 breachers

>10 breachers

>5 FW strike team

>5 FW strike team

 

>10 Pathfinders

+ 2 ion rifles, recon drone, pulse drone

 

>Devilfish w/1 seeker missile

>Devilfish w/1 seeker missile

 

>Broadside

+HRR, dual plasma, seeker missile, shield

 

>Ionhead w/2 drones

 

VANGUARD DETACHMENT

 

Coldstar Commander Kor’Val (Flying shark)

+ 2 fusion, supernova launcher, shield gen

 

3 Crisis Suits

+ 3x3 CIBs

 

2 Hazard Suits

+ 2x2 fusion cascades, 4 shield drones

 

Ghostkeel w/stealth drones

+ Ion gun, 2 fusion, target lock, shield gen

 

 

 

He had:

Slamguinius

Librarian with overwatch jump pack

Relic banner Sanguinary Guard ancient

4 or 5 Scout Squads

1 assault squad

10 Sanguinary Guard

Mortis las Contemptor

Whirlwind

Plasma Inceptors(?)

Lieutenant with jump pack

 

 

I got first deployment and finished first but he won the roll off which was terrible for me. I didn’t bubble wrap some of my models but spread them out, for good reason though. Had I bubble wrapped, many of his units can just eat tough things even like battlesuits and tanks easily and just slingshot into another. There was no where I could easily hide my Coldstar that wasn’t in range of Slamguinius (he had Death company trait and could move before turn one, so he jumped up 24” over no man’s land and successful charged my Coldstar). I had high hopes for this unit but told him about it beforehand so it made sense for him to solo it out early.

 

I couldn’t sit in the corner due to the Adepticon rules we ran that valued movement and grabbing objectives well outside your deployment. My hope was for my breachers to pull the load while my Firebase rained down on them and my suits dropped in to lay down the hurt.

 

Unit analysis:

 

Breachers

These guys did work bringing down the two big baddy officers (try getting through multi wound FNP ++ save characters, muh lord) as well as some hulked out Sanguinary Guard. Would take them again, although their transports didn’t do much all game other than pick a unit or two off and keep the breachers safe.

 

Coldstar

I wish I got more out of this guy, but positioning and placement was hard considering what I wanted to do with him. An army like blood angels is specifically anathema to him as they have high movement, damage, and save capability. Regardless of where I put this guy save for maybe two lines of concentric bubble wrap, which was tough and would waste how my line was set up, he was destined to doom at the hands of a double movement turn 1 charge. I think against any other list, he would’ve been fine starting on the board. Hilariously though, his two melta shots missed in overwatch, and I rolled a 1 for shot amount on the supernova launcher. Bad luck yeah? But I spent a CP to reroll the amount of shots and got 4, which I then proceeded to roll 4 6’s :P I did enough damage to bring Slam down to two wounds, but then died to the relic hammer of doom.

 

 

Broadside/Ionhead

I think I’d rather take another broadside for damage over the Ionhead. It didn’t do much this game and got targeted quite quickly. The Broadside did get a turn in and nuked the Contemptor and brought down an encroaching Scout squad with his plasma. I’m almost considering 3 broadsides.

 

 

Firewarriors/Fireblade/pathfinder combo firebase

Did what was expected of them and lasted all of the game save for the pathfinders. Honestly I’m considering more of them for all the fire they sent out and the amount of crap they dealt with. 10 FW, a Fireblade, and the pathfinders can do quite a number. Honestly my list is lacking a lot of anti Infantry because I’m paranoid about chunky units and tanks.

 

 

XV9 fusion hazards

Lasted all game and drew lots of blood. My only complaint is their diabolically short range, but Vior’la tends to help with the advance and fire trait.

 

 

Ghostkeel

Drew lots of fire and stayed all game. Didn’t do much at all. Always disappointed with the lack of stuff this thing actually can kill. I’m really considering just slapping on the burst cannons and ATS and letting it sit in the middle of the board all game. Honestly, a blob of stealth suits might have been better.

 

 

XV8 triple Ion blasters

These guys did quite well against the Sang Guard but became meh after I lost a bunch of markerlight support and ran out of juicy targets to point them at. I can’t be the only one that tries to be greedy with them, but sometimes you just have to make sure a unit is in the dirt before switching to a new target.

 

 

Final Summary

The new Codex is pretty swell and holds up to even more competitive lists, but can’t deal with insane units like Slamguinius and FNP modifiers due to our multi variable weapons damage output and low number of shots. I attribute some of the failure to win because of losing first turn (especially against my opponent’s alpha strike list), but I feel most of it came down to my lack of hoard clearing weaponry and ability to get past a few nasty units in front of me to get to the objectives.

 

The breacher units did great but got eaten up by regular scrub marines in cc (well I gues BAs get a bunch of passive buffs too) after shooting their crazy weapons. The Vior’la strategem was a bucket of fun, but you’re liable to get to use it once per game. The Ion cannon strategem was interesting too as I managed to pull that off quite well, but isn’t worth it against FNP units. The return was marginal at best. The hammerhead hits on 5’s strategem was marginal at best as well, sadly enough.

 

 

The guy who is doing the 100 fire warriors, a few fireblades, and support is not crazy. I don’t think I could stress how useful they would be to scoot and shoot in this scenario while maintaining board presence. That or taking more stealth suits with ATS to mow down marine units.

 

Lmk what you guys think.

Edited March 16, 2018 by depthcharge12

[MithrilForge]

Thanks for the write up, Gee Blood Angels   it sounds like you did well considering...my mate has a BA force and yeah that move before first turn is devastating if done right and especially with a tooled up Sanguinius infused ballistic missile marine   ... a Marine version of Sharknado !

 

Glad to hear breachers did well and pathfinders too, i hope you get another game and actually get to use Coldstar more...i'm very interested in how his performs under better conditions

and Hmmmm whats the secret to using a Ghostkeel  and getting the most out of it?...

 

thanks again for a batrep (pics next time  pleeease...)

 

Cheers, Mithril 

Edited March 15, 2018 by mithrilforge

[Panzer]

Something I noticed. You talk about bubble wrap but ... I don't see any in your list. The few Firewarrior you have aren't worth called bubble wrap.

No wonder he could do whatever he wanted with his Captain Smash against you. Something simple as a huge unit of Kroot, at least twice as many Firewarriors or some Drone blobs (especially shield drones) would've easily protected you from a first turn charge and let you kill Captain Smash in return without him having done all that much.

 

Overall I'd say you put too many points into suits and not enough into infantry/drones for board control (you have lots of Breacher but they don't fill the same role).

[depthcharge12]

Something I noticed. You talk about bubble wrap but ... I don't see any in your list. The few Firewarrior you have aren't worth called bubble wrap.

No wonder he could do whatever he wanted with his Captain Smash against you. Something simple as a huge unit of Kroot, at least twice as many Firewarriors or some Drone blobs (especially shield drones) would've easily protected you from a first turn charge and let you kill Captain Smash in return without him having done all that much.

 

Overall I'd say you put too many points into suits and not enough into infantry/drones for board control (you have lots of Breacher but they don't fill the same role).

That’s fair, though I did have a Devilfish and Hammerhead in front of him. I was worried if I put him behind my gun line that one unit of decent assault quality could land into the thick of it and destroy most of them and catapult into the others.

 

I’m considering more fire warriors as mentioned above and I was too worried about tanks, and therefore took too much AT.

 

 

I didn’t take too many pictures because I was pretty engrossed in the game and trying to remember all the new Codex stuff and constantly looking up strategems and traits:

 

 

 

That’s about midway through the game there. In retrospect, I should’ve plunked my Ghostkeel down in the middle of the table near some of those objectives to block the scouts and deepstrike. I was mistaken in thinking that if I put him down and a unit was put near him that I’d have to move him somewhere else due to the wording on his infiltrate rule, which was absolutely stupid on my end.

 

 

I’m considering swapping the hammerhead to the double HBC fire support version, changing the Ghostkeel to the double burst cannon/CIR, and changing my commanders a bit. I’m replacing the XV8 Commander and his silly overpriced MPs to a XV84 (markerlight commander) with the supernova relic and plasma rifle do I can land a free markerlight shot out of LoS :devil:

 

On my Sharknado, I’m considering actually giving him the high output burst cannon if the ruling allows it, or failing that, the Vior’la flamer relic.

[Panzer]

Yeah it looks as I imagined based on the list. The BA player has total control over the board and your line is too far spread out to support eachother.

 

Also a question: Why are your Strike Teams cuddling? Spread them out a little bit so it's easier to use For the Greater Good and so they make it harder to deep strike between/behind your lines. ;)

I feel like you worry too much about this catapulting thing. Keep in mind that the opponent still can't attack the second unit until the next fight phase unless he burns his CP for the fight twice Stratagem. Just fall back and shoot the unit that consolidated into your guys. Even better if it was a unit with FLY keyword. And if he actually wastes his CP to kill a second Firewarrior unit of 5 ... good for you lol 

But yeah ... not enough board presence and things like Crisis without Drones to protect them (they can shrug off a lot of damage with 6 Drones nearby) broke your neck there.

[depthcharge12]

Yeah it looks as I imagined based on the list. The BA player has total control over the board and your line is too far spread out to support eachother.

 

Also a question: Why are your Strike Teams cuddling? Spread them out a little bit so it's easier to use For the Greater Good and so they make it harder to deep strike between/behind your lines. ;)

I feel like you worry too much about this catapulting thing. Keep in mind that the opponent still can't attack the second unit until the next fight phase unless he burns his CP for the fight twice Stratagem. Just fall back and shoot the unit that consolidated into your guys. Even better if it was a unit with FLY keyword. And if he actually wastes his CP to kill a second Firewarrior unit of 5 ... good for you lol

 

But yeah ... not enough board presence and things like Crisis without Drones to protect them (they can shrug off a lot of damage with 6 Drones nearby) broke your neck there.

I pooled them together to make the most out of the Fireblade/pulse drone/ Kauyon.

 

The thing I hate most about his list is a.) the PITA scouts who soak up more damage than an 80 point unit should but are necessary to go because of the objectives b.) the crap ton of characters + Sang Guard that all benefit from that 5+ FNP banner

[MithrilForge]

thanks for the pics man, appreciate that   and it gives us a whole new perspective on the game...

i guess it's a "play more games,see what works" situation, sfPanzer does have some valid points there,especially with the spacing on your teams

Gee that's a lot of no mans land there on the board,you would've been laughing against a foot slogging army...but they got in your face quicksmart though   

again thanks for the Batrep, i learn't some stuff too from it too 

 

cheers, Mithril

[Melete]

What did you think of running Vior'la specifically?

[depthcharge12]

thanks for the pics man, appreciate that and it gives us a whole new perspective on the game...

i guess it's a "play more games,see what works" situation, sfPanzer does have some valid points there,especially with the spacing on your teams

Gee that's a lot of no mans land there on the board,you would've been laughing against a foot slogging army...but they got in your face quicksmart though

again thanks for the Batrep, i learn't some stuff too from it too

 

cheers, Mithril

Thanks and foot sloggers would’ve been a turkey shoot :P everything in his list besides the Contemptor and whirlwind had Scout or deepstrike, which was absolutely nutty.

 

 

As for breachers, I really enjoyed them and they deleted some units, but they need someway to keep them alive. Even basic attacks will munch through them, so I wouldn’t bother with the drone. Aun’shi with his 6++ FNP might be in order with some added combat boost.

 

Hell, even Aun’shi in my firing line might’ve been useful for that 6++ and combat ability.

[MithrilForge]

 

Thanks and foot sloggers would’ve been a turkey shoot everything in his list besides the Contemptor and whirlwind had Scout or deepstrike, which was absolutely nutty.

 

 

As for breachers, I really enjoyed them and they deleted some units, but they need someway to keep them alive. Even basic attacks will munch through them, so I wouldn’t bother with the drone. Aun’shi with his 6++ FNP might be in order with some added combat boost.

 

Hell, even Aun’shi in my firing line might’ve been useful for that 6++ and combat ability.

 

 

Yeah my mates Blood angels with a sprinkle of parmesan is all about deepstrike and scouts... i may be facing something like that in the near future when i get my Vior'la done

so what i see here is helping me very much 

i'm guessing that's the new BA cheese... 

 

Mithril

[Panzer]

Nah that's no cheese. That's just the kind of army BA are. Any other kind of list wouldn't make much sense for them.

 

Yeah Breacher die fast. Nothing you can do to prevent that. Treat them as more or less suicide unit to delete nasty infantry from your opponent. Either as aggressive shock troopers or as response to units crashing into your line. They should easily be able to delete something like Deathcompany and even put a dent into Sanguinary Guard with 5++ banner (keep in mind the banner only works on MODELS in range, not on the whole unit).

 

If you want to bring the big guns against a deep strike heavy list then there's always the Storm Surge with EWO + ATS as well. Just let it sit in the middle of your army and castle up around hin (a legit thing to do if he brings Captain Smash imo, just make sure to not get charged by him). ;)

Oh and a Coldstar with HO-BC, BC, EWO, ATS should kill 2-3 Marines on average before they even declare a charge as well.

[9x19 Parabellum]

How do you feel the Tau are sitting this edition compared to last?

 

A couple things to note after reading this:

 

-Scouts are not scubs, as you no doubt found out.  BA scouts with combat blades are 2 attacks each wounding on 2's; they are close combat experts for their price.  And they are by far the better troop choice for pretty much all Space Marines, let alone Blood Angel players.

 

-Bubble wrap, as SFPanzer and others have said.  Nothing takes wind out of BA player's sails like a proper bubble wrap.  Sure Death company will mince your bubble wrap chaff, then they'll promptly get shot to pieces.  And if Captain Smashypants can't take out something nice and juicy on his big alpha strike, he's likelly being wasted or not enjoying an optimal point exchange with you.

 

-BA...yeah, as SFPanzer has said, not cheese. I've lost 11 of my last 13 games using Blood Angels because they just don't have the staying power after their big alpha strike (which is, incidentally, pretty easy to protect against if you have a properly balanced army.

[Panzer]

Hard to say. Last edition we could compete with the top thanks to some broken formations like riptide wing and optimised stealth cadre. Currently I don't feel like we're as good anymore but the Codex didn't even drop so it's not fair to judge just yet. There are some good combinations to test out first.

[depthcharge12]

Hard to say. Last edition we could compete with the top thanks to some broken formations like riptide wing and optimised stealth cadre. Currently I don't feel like we're as good anymore but the Codex didn't even drop so it's not fair to judge just yet. There are some good combinations to test out first.

Yeah I could care less about being top tier, I’d rather have a good Codex with a bunch of options. I’m almost tempted to switch to Tau sept and try them out, but I have a weird fascination with sticking to one, and only one, sub faction and staying with them.

 

We don’t have anything that sticks out as cheesy or broken. Though the Y’vahra comes close, but costs a hefty amount of points. I’d say so far we are bottom middle tier - below death guard but above orks/Necrons. Sort of in that space marine/chaos area of “competitiveness.”

 

 

Honestly, I think if I had deployed my lines a bit better I would’ve been better off, I was just worried about damage control and limiting the amount of units his Death Star of Sanguinary Guard could touch. Just needs some list tweaking and finding the right combination as sfpanzer says.

[9x19 Parabellum]

I've never beaten Tau, in 7th or 8th edition so I have this kind of emotional grudge-awe-terror-respect-fear response to Tau.  I frekking hate playing against them (because of how unfun to play against they were in 7th edition) and I love it when they lose.

 

That being said, I want to start a Tau army.

[depthcharge12]

I've never beaten Tau, in 7th or 8th edition so I have this kind of emotional grudge-awe-terror-respect-fear response to Tau. I frekking hate playing against them (because of how unfun to play against they were in 7th edition) and I love it when they lose.

 

That being said, I want to start a Tau army.

That’s understandable as I didn’t play Tau since 5th and feared ever using them if I decided to go back to 7th. In 8th, I’ve had a 50/50 split with them, but due large in part because of the index and trying out new stuff with the Codex. We shall have to change that shouldn’t we? :devil:

 

 

After my game against the dastardly blood angels, I’ve decided to adjust my list to gaining more CPs and annihilating pesky infantry squads, which have been much tougher to deal with than armor. I’ve decided to go Vior’la/Tau as my two Septs:

 

 

2000 points - Double battalion

10 Command points

 

BATTALION DETACHMENT - Vior’la

 

HQs

>Coldstar Commander Kor’Val (Flying shark)

+ 2 fusion, high output burst cannon, shield gen

 

>Fireblade

 

 

ELITES

>3 Crisis Suits

+ 3x3 CIBs

 

>2 Hazard Suits

+ 2x2 fusion cascades, 4 shield drones

 

>3 XV25 stealth suits

+ 3 BCs, 3 ATS

 

 

TROOPS

>10 breachers

>5 breachers

>5 breachers

 

 

FA

>5 Pathfinders

+ 1 ion rifle, recon drone, pulse drone

 

>5 Pathfinders

+ 1 Ion Rifle

 

DT

>Devilfish

 

>Devilfish

 

 

BATTALION DETACHMENT - Tau

 

HQ

>XV84 Commander (107) - Warlord

+ Supernova launcher, plasma rifle, target lock, uplinked markerlight

 

>Darkstrider

 

TROOPS

>5 FW strike team

>5 FW strike team

>10 Kroot carnivores

 

HEAVY SUPPORT

>Broadside

+HRR, dual plasma, shield

 

>Fire Support Hammerhead

+ dual heavy burst cannon, 2 burst cannons

 

 

 

I changed my XV8 Commander to the 84 due to the bendy markerlight phenomenon :P as he’ll be sitting and guarding the backlines anyway T1 to kick off Kauyon. Free markerlight and his weapons are still quite effective. I’ve moved the supernova launcher off of the Coldstar and onto the 84 for more potency and to allow the Coldstar to once again take the HOBC for infantry blending and overwatch.

 

Big squad of breachers rock up with Darkstrider who will still give them passive buffs despite rarely being able to use his ML (advance and shoot Vior’la). Double tap strategem and +1 to wound from Darkstrider makes for a bad day. Oh and you can kick off the Tau sept strategem to now WOUND ANYTHING ON THE BOARD ON A 3+ OR BETTER in conjunction with them haha :devil:

 

I know the fire support hammerhead is pricy, but 16 shots without having to nova charge like the riptide is pretty swell and has a bunch of extra shots from the BC. Anyone who dares charge the thing will deal with BS5 in overwatch from the Tau sept passive ability.

 

Kroot and stealth suits exist to push back DS and act as a speed bump. Stealth suits got more expensive, but coupled with the Vior’la strategem can double tap and fire 24 S5 AP-1 shots T1 before the breachers need to get out and use the strategem T2.

 

What do y’all think?

[Lemondish]

First, Darkstrider only buffs Tau Sept, but you said your plan was to stick him with the Breachers, which you have as Viorla. The stratagem you mentioned also only applies to Tau Sept units.

 

Aren't your Fish supposed to be delivering the Breachers? If so, wouldn't need Viorla for foot slogging then - they'd be better off as Tau Sept for the extra overwatch shooting. Same goes with the Fish, though you'll probably be using them to charge and tie up units looking to charge your Breachers. Plus, if they were Tau they'd benefit from Darkstrider and the stratagem. I'd swap your troops between the two detachments to resolve that and gain a minor benefit: your strike teams are now more mobile with the Viorla Sept tenet.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Lemondish

[Panzer]

Aren't your Fish supposed to be delivering the Breachers? If so, wouldn't need Viorla for foot slogging then - they'd be better off as Tau Sept for the extra overwatch shooting. Same goes with the Fish, though you'll probably be using them to charge and tie up units looking to charge your Breachers. Plus, if they were Tau they'd benefit from Darkstrider and the stratagem. I'd swap your troops between the two detachments to resolve that and gain a minor benefit: your strike teams are now more mobile with the Viorla Sept tenet.

 

Just because they're in a fish it doesn't mean Vior'la is a bad pick. They can still advance after disembarking, so get ~3.5" more range and can still use the double shooting Stratagem.

[depthcharge12]

Hmm perhaps instead of Darkstrider, use Aun’shi?

[Lemondish]

 

 

Aren't your Fish supposed to be delivering the Breachers? If so, wouldn't need Viorla for foot slogging then - they'd be better off as Tau Sept for the extra overwatch shooting. Same goes with the Fish, though you'll probably be using them to charge and tie up units looking to charge your Breachers. Plus, if they were Tau they'd benefit from Darkstrider and the stratagem. I'd swap your troops between the two detachments to resolve that and gain a minor benefit: your strike teams are now more mobile with the Viorla Sept tenet.

Just because they're in a fish it doesn't mean Vior'la is a bad pick. They can still advance after disembarking, so get ~3.5" more range and can still use the double shooting Stratagem.

That is true...in a vacuum. In this case it wastes Darkstrider, so those points could be used for something else. The plan mentioned above talks about using the Tau Sept stratagem as well, which also falls apart if they stay Viorla. With those two points alone I imagine the list would need some heavy retooling to keep them in Viorla, replace Darkstrider, and plan for a different approach without the stratagem...or the troops swap places in the detachments and everything is back on track :D

 

Plus, is an extra 3.5" of range for a unit that will likely benefit from it once before they're killed to death worth giving up better overwatch, Darkstrider, and access to an amazing stratagem? I'll let you decide, but I'll put my vote squarely in the "probably not" column ;)

 

Hmm perhaps instead of Darkstrider, use Aun’shi?

I'm guessing for the counter charge threat?

Edited March 18, 2018 by Lemondish

[Panzer]

Guess agree to disagree then since I judge Darkstrider and Overwatch extremely low for Breacher. Most opponents will have no problem to shoot some T3 Sv4+ models to death so they won't risking the S6 AP-2 overwatch at 5+.

[Trevak Dal]

Plasma rifles in general are unchanged right? Rapid fire 1 24" s6 ap-4 D1 and all still? No increase in range?

[Panzer]

AP-3

But yeah they are 100% the same as in the Index. I don't think any weapon profile changed except for the overcharged Ion ones and the Riptide weapons. CIBs got the fix 3 shot in overcharge mode which is on average a 50% boost + way more reliable than before.

[Lemondish]

Guess agree to disagree then since I judge Darkstrider and Overwatch extremely low for Breacher. Most opponents will have no problem to shoot some T3 Sv4+ models to death so they won't risking the S6 AP-2 overwatch at 5+.

Ultimately since they'll die pretty quickly given how dangerous they are, I prefer to make sure they burn brightly. Darkstrider brings the extra +1 to wound, which helps ensure they delete what they intend to. Definitely not the only way to use them, you're right. Either way, I think we can agree that Darkstrider doesn't make sense with Viorla Breachers, so a change there is maybe needed.

[Panzer]

And I prefer to make it more likely to bring them into range of their good profile without the -1 to-hit modifier and then delete what they intent to with the double shooting stratagem. ;)

 

But yeah Darkstrider makes no sense for Vior'la obviously. Different Septs and all that.