5000pts Thousand Sons vs. Custodes Lessons Learned

[Archaeinox]

Copying this here from the TS forum to help Custodes players get some insight into what works vs. Thousand Sons and what TS can do to hurt the Custodes

 

Biggest tip I can give is that it is absolutely imperative that you multi-charge as many Thousand Sons units as possible. It only takes a couple of guys when you split attacks to neuter a unit. Be sure to take advantage of the Vexillor and pop that stratagem to teleport in super close! I can't express how much that hurts.

 

I concede that I DID get some lucky pulls on the Maelstrom deck.

 

Good luck in your games vs. Thousand Sons!

 

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March 12th a friend came up to the store and we played a big 5000pt game after I closed up. I used every model I own. He just built his Custodes, so of course they aren't painted. We will do a smaller all-painted batrep soon for you guys. 

We played the very basic 3-card Maelstrom mission so that we could focus on the gameplay. Due to duplicate spell saturation, I had guys on the left and right take the same powers in case I needed one on either side of the battlefield (Death Hex, Gift of Chaos on two exalted sorcerers, for example). Yeah, it was Matched Play so no attempting the same one twice except Smite.

 

 

Victory for the Thousand Sons with relative ease HOWEVER I concede that this was due to two very lucky draws from the Maelstrom deck (Kill an Imperium unit and destroy units in the psychic phase). 10-8 Maelstrom points, there were 3 Custodes models remaining on the far left flank in my deployment zone who were chasing a Predator down. I through Fateweaver at them and he eventually died. If we were being competitive, the entire army might have just psychically pewed and shooting phase pewed them and I would have had more points because of another lucky card draw but I decided against it. We made it to bottom of turn 6 in 4 hours, which is a testament to my friend's skill at playing the army and not having to reference much Custodes stratagems or stats. Next time I think we will just play the basic Eternal War mission with 4 objectives and see if that is a better test of both armies. As you know, Maelstrom can go very badly for one person.

 

Things that went bad:

 

-The Vexillor Preators spread across his deployment zone with the -1 to hit in the shooting phase banner SUCK. They must die. I only killed 2 all game, and both were in turn 4.

 

-Tzaangors failed charge vs. 5 custodian guard turn 1 even with Warptime, Gaze of Fate AND a Command Re-roll. Double 1s twice, basically. The cost of failing that was giving 5 Wardens, a Shield Captain, 5 Custodian Guard and a Vexillor extra movement as they charged the Tzaangors. Eventually, the Vexillor would be in range to bring down more Allarus Custodes at close range....

 

-6 Allarus custodes terminators charged all 15 Scarab Occult Terminators. The only guys left were the Scarab Occult Sorcerers, who eventually fell back.. but they could have died easily. Watch out for those big axes- they are powerfists that hit easier.

 

Mistakes I made:

 

-The psychic phase was so long turn 4 that I forgot to shoot two Predators and the Land Raider because I got ahead of myself and went straight to the infantry units' shooting.

 

-Deploying all 3 Scarab Occult Terminator squads next to each other for the Allarus to arrive then multi charge. Splitting their attacks (2 vs each unit) was enough to remove the Scarabs as a threat.

 

-Not popping Cabalistic Ritual to ensure that Death Hex was super hard to deny.. Somehow a Custodes character stopped it with a lucky roll.

 

Things that went well: 

 

-Chaos Spawn. They can cripple a Contemptor with a few wounds (dmg 2 attacks) and certainly help get rid of Allarus Custodes in combat. The -2 AP means that they are good for attacking any infantry unit Custodes have. If I played Custodes, I would remove them quickly due to the threat they pose for counter-attack after Custodes start teleporting in.

 

-Magnus did 10 (land raider), 10 (Wardens) and 6 (Custodes Guardians) Mortal Wounds to units over the course of the game thanks to his +2 to cast combined with what happened after he re-rolled a 1 for a test. That's not counting what dmg was done with his Bolt of Change and Doombolt, which sometimes went to other units. Magnus killed the Land Raider with the help of a Prescience'd predator in the shooting phase. Magnus needs to be shot at and wounded quickly with multiple damage weaponry, but the -1 to hit from Glamour makes it tough.

 

-The best targets for Magnus to charge are the Guardians/Wardens (3 wounds each), or the Jetbikes if they are wounded. Always assume that even though Magnus will hit and wound a ton, your opponent will make tons of Invul Saves. Nevertheless, he can help erase a unit but I recommend softening it up just to guarantee the kill.

 

-Ahriman's spell set was Temporal Manipulation, Glamour of Tzeentch and Death Hex. With so much other offensive guys, it was great to have him staying in my deployment zone and just zipping around to buff and heal Magnus from a distance. Don't forget to plan ahead for your spell ranges. If you know me, you know I prefer Ahriman on foot if you aren't taking Magnus. In this situation, however, it was imperative that he fly around in the safety of my deployment zone and applying a spell at +1 to cast where needed. He was always in range of 2 Thousand Sons psykers for Cabalistic Ritual but I only used it once.

 

-I didn't lose any Rubric Marines because of all the other threats I presented probably. They did a lot of rapid fire damage in the shooting phase and probably should have been targeted earler. He shot some Pink Horrors that I was using as screens, instead. Even without the Horrors, he was shooting Chaos Spawn and sorcerers that got caught in the open..

Edited March 15, 2018 by Archaeinox

[swordofmandulis]

Do you think the 3 psychic tables you now have access too leads you away from smite spam? How hard do you think the beta smite rules would have hit you had you been using them at this scale? And also a more normal 2k? Custodes do have at least some psychic defense but there are so many awesome relics and warlord traits I want to take something else to combat psychic heavy armies.

[Scurvydog]

Nice report and summary, thank you for taking the time.

 

Frankly I would have been surprised if custodes got the upper hand against thousand sons, especially with Magnus present.

 

Some sisters of silence could really have helped him out there ;)

[Archaeinox]

Do you think the 3 psychic tables you now have access too leads you away from smite spam? How hard do you think the beta smite rules would have hit you had you been using them at this scale? And also a more normal 2k? Custodes do have at least some psychic defense but there are so many awesome relics and warlord traits I want to take something else to combat psychic heavy armies.

 

I really think so, yes. Of course, since MULTIPLE psykers at 5000pts must end up having the same powers, you see a LOT of Smite's being used because we were still using the Matched Play rules.. So no duplicate powers each turn blah blah blah.

 

At 1500pts (my most played level for games since 8th started), I am only casting 1-3 big smites a turn because the powers are so nice. At 5000 AND 1500, the proposed Smite nerf would cripple my damage output. I'm convinced that the armies that abused Smite have already been fixed for the most part. Thousand Sons players can spam Smite from their characters but ask any of my opponents: The games I win are NOT because of Smite, nor will Smite give me an upper hand vs something in a competitive environment as a dedicated Thousand Sons detachment. Guard will just shoot me off the table, for example. I'll have to be using Warptime, Weaver of Fates, Gaze of Fate, Glamour of Tzeentch to survive.. You get the idea. Which means less Smite.

 

It sucks fighting powers that you can't stop but my advice is to forgo a turn of shooting and advance. Close the distance ASAP. You will take shooting and psychic no matter what- might as well get up there faster.

 

Nice report and summary, thank you for taking the time.

 

Frankly I would have been surprised if custodes got the upper hand against thousand sons, especially with Magnus present.

 

Some sisters of silence could really have helped him out there

 

You're welcome.

 

I believe that if a Custodes player keeps a unit of 3 Allarus Custodes in reserve and manages to catch Magnus off guard, you can use a Vexillor to drop them close if Magnus doesn't have Weaver up for his 3++ and really hurt him. It's tricky, but I think there are ways to try and deny a power. Priority would be Weaver of Fates, then Glamour of Tzeentch (the -1 to hit power)

 

I think Sisters are too fragile. They would be the first target. I'm not saying I'm a perfect player at all but I don't like things that stop me from using powers, so they'd be high on the list to go away

Edited March 16, 2018 by Archaeinox