New to Imperial Guard

[Saint_Michael]

Hello folks, i'm new to imperial guard, as i've only played space marines in 7th and 2 games in 8th.

I'm looking to build an army that has a Tallarn Brigade that's protecting a Cadian Spearhead.

 

My Cadian spearhead has:

3 executioner plasma Leman Russes with plasma cannons (1 pask, 1 commander, 1 regular)

2 Platoon Commanders

2x Heavy weapons squads (lascannons)

2x Heavy weapons squads (mortars)

 

Thus far my idea with the tallarn brigade has:

4 infantry in  4 chimeras (i'd like to use the griffon chimera from forgeworld (something about 12 heavy bolters just tickles me something fun)

2 infantry (or conscripts) bubble wrapping the cadian heavy weapons squads.

 

The overall idea being that most of the tallarn armor (at least 2 punishers) outflank onto the field to tear :cuss up.  While the rest of the tallarn move up the field rather quickly (given orders)

 

Beyond this though, i've got no idea what to take in my brigade, how to set up the hq, etc.  I'd welcome any suggestions, please!!!???!!! 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Saint_Michael

[WarriorFish]

Welcome to the Guard ;) Sounds like you've got a good overall plan, getting numbers on the table is best especially to effectively support some heavy armour. Plasma would be good and fitting for Tallarn but with Executioners in play it would be better to go for something different and a bit cheaper. Perhaps flamers for some additional crowd control when jumping out of the Chimeras? Grenade Launchers are always useful though and nice and cheap :)

[spafe]

hq tends to jsut be company commanders with boltguns... used for orders

 

scout sentinels (for your FA requirement on the brigade), will do well to push back deepstrikers and keep those cadians safe

[Halfpint100]

company commanders are always safe bets for hqs, orders are the lifeblood of guard. I would try and squeeze in a cadian one in the spearhead if you could for 2 orders per turn instead of 1. 

 

Primaris psykers are also good for some support, pask is always a big target, so -1 to hit and +1 save powers help him a lot.

 

Elites: platoon commanders are cheap, vets have more options but are not that good, astropaths are more expensive now but are decent for 30 points. If you can afford it, a unit of bullgryns would be good as well.

 

Fast attack: Personally, i love hellhounds! but tallarn sentinels are really good as well due to ignoring the -1 to hit with heavy weapons for vehicles, autocannons would be a good idea on scout sentinels.

 

Heavy support: mortar squads are dirt cheap and easily fill this slot and probably the best for tallarn, or take some russes and watch them zoom!

[spafe]

oh, and personally I love the use of a ratling squad or 2 in the elite section... cheap, sniper shots are always a nice thing

[Major_Gilbear]

Hi and welcome to the Guard - looks like you're off to a good start. :)

 

If you're planning to have the second part of your force in Chimeras, you might want to consider the Steel Legion doctrine instead - jumping out of Chimeras and rapid firing at 18" is what they're good at!

 

Failing that, something like Catachans could be worth considering, especially if you're going to give them some flamers and a sprinkling of melee weapons (S4!). You could also make use of the Catachan characters too if you want. ;)

[librisrouge]

Beyond what everybody else already said, I just want to add that you should nice and clearly distinguish between your Cadians and Tallarn. Don't use models painted the same as mixed regiments. I know it is a pain, but an opponent that makes a wrong decision because they thought X regiment was Y regiment will feel cheated. Do both of you a favor and avoid that.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

That advice about mixed regiments is good. I now have 20 Catachans set up as vets, and I'll be using them as vets (I figure melta-vets will end up in combat, so that extra point of Strength should help). 

 

It will also help your sanity. I actually have a mixed regiment of Cadians (Creed's 8th and my DIY 77th Cadian Regiments), and they are painted differently. For your Tallarn, Mad Robot Minis has some good heads.

[Saint_Michael]

Alrighty folks, after having smashed my head on my linux laptop and for battlescribe not being cross platform:  I managed to create an army listing for my Cadian/Tallarn army that i'd like your opinions on.
 
++ Brigade Detachment +9CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [67 PL, 1182pts] ++
 
+ No Force Org Slot +
 
Regimental Doctrine: Tallarn
 
+ HQ +
 
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
+ Troops +
 
Conscripts [3 PL, 80pts]: 20x Conscript
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 53pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter
. Sergeant: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 53pts]
. 6x Guardsman
. Guardsman w/ Vox-caster: Vox-caster
. Heavy Weapon Team: Heavy bolter
. Sergeant: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol
 
Infantry Squad [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Guardsman
. Sergeant: Laspistol
 
+ Elites +
 
Ratlings [2 PL, 45pts]
. 5x Ratling: 5x Sniper Rifle
 
Ratlings [2 PL, 45pts]
. 5x Ratling: 5x Sniper Rifle
 
Ratlings [2 PL, 45pts]
. 5x Ratling: 5x Sniper Rifle
 
+ Fast Attack +
 
Hellhounds [6 PL, 101pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon
 
Scout Sentinels [6 PL, 106pts]
. Scout Sentinel: Autocannon, Hunter-killer missile
. Scout Sentinel: Autocannon, Hunter-killer missile
 
Scout Sentinels [6 PL, 106pts]
. Scout Sentinel: Autocannon, Hunter-killer missile
. Scout Sentinel: Autocannon, Hunter-killer missile
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
 
+ Dedicated Transport +
 
Gryphonne Pattern Chimera [5 PL, 97pts]: Heavy Bolter, Twin heavy bolter
 
Gryphonne Pattern Chimera [5 PL, 97pts]: Heavy Bolter, Twin heavy bolter
 
++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [48 PL, 817pts] ++
 
+ No Force Org Slot +
 
Gametype: Matched
 
Regimental Doctrine: Cadian
 
+ HQ +
 
Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 247pts]: Lascannon, Plasma Cannons, Superior Tactical Training, Warlord
. Command Executioner: Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon
 
+ Elites +
 
Platoon Commander [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
Platoon Commander [2 PL, 20pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol
 
+ Heavy Support +
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
 
Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
 
Leman Russ Battle Tanks [20 PL, 356pts]
. Leman Russ Punisher: Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon
. Leman Russ Punisher: Heavy Bolters, Lascannon, Turret-mounted Punisher Gatling Cannon
 
++ Total: [115 PL, 1999pts] ++
 
Created with BattleScribe
 
Your thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Edited March 21, 2018 by WarriorFish
Style fixed

[WarriorFish]

I like the list, has a lot of character. I don't think I'd bother with vox though certainly small scale - those points could be spent on the naked squads to give them a special weapon for example. "Hiding" Lascannon teams will keep them shooting longer, but I'm wondering about your overall anti-tank capabilities. You've lots of horde control which is great but I'd feel better if you could muster some more heavy fire power at 2k.

[Halfpint100]

Few changes I would do:

 

Tallarn:

• split the conscripts into 2 squads of 10 guard (same points and better all round) 
• remove the voxs on the 2 squads (saves 10 points)
• drop the 2 heavy bolters (saves 16 points)
• Make the scout sentinels 4 squads of 1, rather than 2 squads of 2. gives more flexibility and deep strike denial 

 

Cadian:

• drop a platoon commander (you have 4 orders for 3 squads, one company commander and one platoon commander is enough) (saves 20 points)
• DO NOT MAKE PASK YOUR WARLORD OR GIVE HIM A RELIC. Pask is already a massive target being lethal when he shoots. he will often die in one turn if he has all those bonuses on him. I like to spread my eggs, warlord on a company commander, relic on a different character, harder to neutralise your force. 

 

The changes will give you 46 points spare, which is a primaris psyker. psykers are useful in 8th and i would recommend at least 1, possibly 3. 

if you can find the points, try and get some psykers in, or maybe special weapons on your tallarn infantry (maybe both platoon commanders and 1 cadian heavy weapon squad)

 

Just my advice, take it or leave it. Hope it helps

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I have to second HP on this, in totality. I know that taking a Unique Character as your warlord is temping, and it's often not a bad idea, but Pask is a frontline character and will be a target. 

 

Definitely do not put all of your eggs in one basket. Definitely use your points wisely, special weapons in your IS are a good choice. Also, about coscripts, they are fluffy, but they need buffs to be good, and that's a huge investment. 

 

If you take Conscripts, be cognizant that you'll need a Platoon (or Company) Commander, a Priest, and an Astropath. The Astropath can use Mental Fortitude to auto-pass morale checks, and the Priest will add attacks, while the Platoon commander will make them fight twice. This is because you don't want conscripts to just shoot. They are a sacrificial unit that is best used to advance, shoot, and then assault. Use conscripts to overwhelm very shooty units. Conscripts vs Fire Warriors is a good example. Conscripts vs SM Devs is also good. 

 

Doing the math hammer, that conscript set up will give you Fearless, 4ppm, 2 attack dudes. In a single turn he can pump out 4 attacks at s3. In a full unit of 30, that's 120 attacks per turn. Unfortunately, orders are 50/50, and the Psychic power might not happen. It's heavily reliant upon RNGesus (the Lord of Random Number Generation) to give you what you need. 

 

That's a 91 point investment into a 120 point, BS5+, WS5+, Ld 4, guardsman squad that can have triple the bodies, but no options, and which might only work half the time. That's not worth it at 2k. If you're playing large games using PL (like APOC) then go for it. 

 

Just food for thought.

[Saint_Michael]

Let's try another go at this., i dropped a leman russ (pask forgive me), and used those points to buff out the rest of the army.  I added a primaris psyker, a couple of astropaths, and a commisar.  added some meat and potatoes weapons to my infantry squads.  made my scout sentinels into armored ones.  A few other odds and ends.

Regimental Doctrine: Tallarn

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword,  Kurov's Aquila, Laspistol

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol, Warlord, Grand Strategist,

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave, Nightshroud, Psychic Barrier

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 47pts]
. 8x Guardsman
. Guardsman W/ Special Weapon: Plasma gun
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon
. Sergeant: Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 60pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Missile launcher
. Sergeant: Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [1 PL, 36pts]: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave

Astropath [1 PL, 36pts]: Nightshroud, Telepathica Stave

Commissar [2 PL, 31pts]: Bolt pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Armoured Sentinels [6 PL, 132pts]
. Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Missile Launcher
. Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Missile Launcher

Armoured Sentinels [6 PL, 132pts]
. Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Missile Launcher
. Armoured Sentinel: Hunter-killer missile, Missile Launcher

Hellhounds [6 PL, 107pts]
. Hellhound: Heavy Bolter, Hunter-Killer Missile, Turret-mounted Inferno Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera [5 PL, 97pts]: Heavy Bolter, Twin heavy bolter

Gryphonne Pattern Chimera [5 PL, 97pts]: Heavy Bolter, Twin heavy bolter

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [37 PL, 667pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Cadian

+ HQ +

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Knight Commander Pask [13 PL, 247pts]: Lascannon, Plasma Cannons
. Command Executioner: Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 48pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Lascannon

Leman Russ Battle Tanks [10 PL, 198pts]
. Leman Russ Executioner: Hunter-Killer Missile, Lascannon, Plasma Cannons, Turret-mounted Executioner Plasma Cannon

++ Total: [107 PL, 1997pts] ++

 

How it all works:

 

Cadian spearhead is kept in the back field, providing heavy duty plasma cover with the leman russes.  The heavy weapons squads bubble wrap them.  The Infantry squads with heavy weapons bubble wrap them, essentially trying to keep 1 infantry squad to every 2 heavy weapons squads.  The command units, primaris, and commisar are sandwiched in there for buffs, orders, and awesomeness.

The fun part:

 

Use the Tallarn ambush strategem to take the two armoured sentinel squads, and the hellhound and send them wherever i feel that they can do the most damage.  I toyed around with the idea of just having 3 groups 1 sentinel, but i can't figure out what to do with the points.  2 infantry squads jump into the 2 chimeras, and play objective grabbers.  If i have to camp objectives, i'll send in a squad with a heavy weapon, otherwise it'l be the plasma so they can make full use of the tallarn doctrine and advance to stay near a chimera and continue to wander about the board causing havoc.

 

In essence:  I've got 6 plasma cannons (2 of which are d6 shots), 16 mortars (for light to medium infantry, also get orders), 12 lascannons (8 can receive orders (all armor types)), 6 missile launchers (4 can receive orders)(light to medium armor), 6 heavy bolters (teq), 6 hunter killer missiles (armor), 4 plasma rifles (anything else), a splash of psychic, and plenty of meat to go around. 

Any suggestions?  

[Halfpint100]

your astropaths dont need their staffs, they can take a laspistol instead for 0points, making them 30 each

 

I would keep the sentinels scouts, just for deep strike denial and stop nasty deep striking charges/ dakka mulching your gunline. 

 

Fun fact with outflanking! if you take the dagger relic as well, you can outflank 2 officers and 3 infantry units with the stratagem as well, 30 dudes with orders is gonna hurt in anyone flank

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I would second the Sentinels. I say this because scout sentinel are useful for deep strike denial. I use armored sentinels for a couple of reasons. First, it is one of the few ways to get plasma cannons in a guard army. The second reason is, they are tougher. T6 and a 3+ Sv makes them harder to remove. My third reason is that I had 2 because of previous editions and getting a 3rd was my cheapest way to fill a brigade. 

 

Other than my first two reasons, you should look a scout sentinels. I care about plasma cannons because I don't use LR Executioners, and I don't take sponsons on my tanks.

[Tallarn Commander]

Yes, I've noticed my armored sentinels are far more durable than my scout variants.

 

I use my armored sentinels in the same way as my Chaos Helbrutes, a fairly cheap somewhat durable jack of all trades.