New to gk

[Muaddib]

 

 

 

I never use more than 5 strike, i love Interceptors too much!! The ignore cover rule is really nice. You can’t shoot after falling back but still, there is some nice tricks to use here!I always play with 5CP « only », doing really good so far...

You should run Battalion. It's not even hard to meet the requirements. Unless you don't take double GMDK? Because you might be the only GK player who doesn't. Strikes are cheaper by 20 points and just can't start on table, that's the main functional difference. Both die straight away to any meaningful anti-infantry.

I play Battalion+Vanguard usually, and I use all my Command Points by bottom of Turn 1 normally. What armies have you gone up against?

I’ve gone up against all flavors of DA, astra militarum with tanks and smite spam, tyranids, BA... from différents opponents too. not the most competitives builds but always solids.

I generally use one gmndk with a 2++ for two turns (4cp) and Draigo. My fifth cp is usually for Only in Death or a critical reroll (like the « 1 » for saving against lazcan, or a fail t1 sanctuary).

And I really have a good victory ratio so far (60-70% minimum).

We maybe not so good against ultra-competitives lists but we can do really well in any other meta imho...

Great. But it is impossible for me use 4 cp for 2++. I really need them for reroll. Last time I had two perils during the same fase in first turn.

 

The dice god. You have to make the proper flesh sacrifice before the battle. Even as GK player :/

[Hugoboss8901]

The thig as well the ndk is such an ugly model as well. If it was posable it would be better, i understand the fluff behind it but i dont play models i dont like.

I argee some units need a change espically purifiers the range of their flame is rubbish. Im looking at running lists with strike squads, paladins mostly.

Im more of a fluff player and as im doig 2nd brotherhood they dont have ndks. So it looks like dreads to fill those roles. I was hoping for some kind of comtemptor dread thats in between a ndk and a dread.

I wanna play gk and not have to ally in other armies to make them competitive but spammig the same.units can get boring for yourself and other players.

I ve also seen alot of people selling gk armies and saying how weak gk are compared to other armies. I thougt gks were meant to be elite of the imperium but now custodes are here where do we fit ? We need some form of pyshic stuff maybe like unique powers to us.

[Capt. Mytre]

Poor codex (expensive/rules overlap/lack of choice) + core rules that don't favour us (pychic focus/DS limit/CP generation/shooting is king etc) = bad army.

 

There's a lot we need changed to become decent, let alone good. That, or buff the :cuss out of one area to an insane level, but that would probably be very boring to play.

[Waking Dreamer]

If they increase the cost of GMDK I will quit the army. They're the only vaguely good aspect left to our game plan. Everything else is mediocre or bad. Mine still both die in a normal game Turn 1 or Turn 2. Restricting them to 1 per detachment would have zero effect on most lists, I already take them that way.

 

As for HQ restrictions, I think the Command nerf was a hamfisted way of fixing the problem. All they had to do was fix Crisis with a points reduction, and restrict Commanders to two weapons. Instead they implement a restriction that doesn't fix the problem and annoys the player base. Just like Psychic Discipline and Reserves restriction. It's blunt measures to correct design flaws they never should have started with.

Amen.

 

For the Tau, they sledgehammered a solution that stops the symptom but did nothing to fix the cause problem...unviable / overcosted crisis suits. The whole appeal for my brother's Tau army was a heavy crisis suit army from The FSE, with multiple hero Commanders from the iconic, The Eight lead by Farsight himself (All possible in 7E). With NO improvement in crisis suits and the Commander restriction my younger brother is so gutted he couldn't even bring himself to buy the Codex yet.

 

I reminded him the whole reason I wanted to have a GKs army was to field the iconic, silver armoured terminators en masse..and well 8E is here, and I have no GK Strike models (though I do have Interceptors), just like he doesn't have/want Fire Warriors...doesnt stop me from actually liking my GKs collection, and not to necessarily give up on his mass battlesuit FSE army if that's what motivated him in the first place, (especially since I've assembled and painted about 80% of it already lol). Some tweaks and he could almost have the army the way he envisioned it, enjoying it for what it is - just like how I still adore my GK Terminator Troops, even though I already know they're far from competitive.

 

The main reason I started GKs was for the lore and models, not really for the power (though there isn't anything wrong with starting a whole army with the aim of winning tournaments), however as usual, improvements to the codex would be much appreciated, but otherwise their tabletop performance won't say, determine if I trash/sell them off, because I've invested in them for more reasons than that.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

That list would fall apart completely in my local scene. Most aren't even tournament lists.

[Muaddib]

That list would fall apart completely in my local scene. Most aren't even tournament lists.

I’ll ask my friend his liste to compare.

What i’m saying is just that you can have fun with GK if your not playing the strongest opponent. And the list doesn’t do everything. Luck w/ objectives, and of course dices, matter.

But I’ll come back with the lists... But can you givre me one or two exemples of DA or IG or Tyranids list you face please? I think my friend will find it really interesting ;)

[Panzer]

The GK Codex honestly feels like only half finished. I have no idea why they released it so soon with such terrible internal balance. There're even only two pages of Stratagems while Codexes like the BA have three. Not even a single proper explanation why there're no Primaris units in the Codex (regardless of whether you like them or not, it should be there somewhere).

My only guess is that GW has planned something special for Grey Knights but not something they're planning to do within the first year of 8th edition so there was not much of a point of holding the Codex back but also not the need for them to do it properly (of course we the player see that a bit differently lol).

[Capt. Mytre]

The GK Codex honestly feels like only half finished. I have no idea why they released it so soon with such terrible internal balance. There're even only two pages of Stratagems while Codexes like the BA have three. Not even a single proper explanation why there're no Primaris units in the Codex (regardless of whether you like them or not, it should be there somewhere).

My only guess is that GW has planned something special for Grey Knights but not something they're planning to do within the first year of 8th edition so there was not much of a point of holding the Codex back but also not the need for them to do it properly (of course we the player see that a bit differently lol).

 

Why? Money. They put all their effort into the SM codex, then just did a rush job with GK. Easy money selling a crap codex in the excitement of 8th edition.

 

It's apparent that they just dropped the index in there, raised the points of a few units (terminators going up 2 points while already being inferior to paladins? TL plasma cannons doubling in cost for no apparent reason?) and made easy cash.

 

Hell, even the fluff in the book is pretty poor. No explanation of our special weapons other than a tiny generic statement. Tons of reused art and model images. Super disappointed in all parts with it.

[Panzer]

What efford did they put into the SM Codex? There's barely anything new and it's not even particularly strong. Also if they were aiming for the quick money, they would've done that with more than just the GK Codex. That argument doesn't really work. ^^

[Gentlemanloser]

All the strats etc were 'new' in the SM Codex.  We just got copy pasta'd Strats from the SM dex for the most part.

 

And still the worst Relic in the game with the Liber Daemonica.

[Panzer]

The Codexes got written basically at the same time most likely. We don't know whether the Stratagems were first written by the GK team or the SM team. Hell maybe they just randomly brainstormed Stratagems as a group and then said "those sound good for Marines, lets give them to all Marine armies" and then specified them further to the units.

[Capt. Mytre]

What efford did they put into the SM Codex? There's barely anything new and it's not even particularly strong. Also if they were aiming for the quick money, they would've done that with more than just the GK Codex. That argument doesn't really work. ^^

 

I didn't say they put in a lot, just that they did. Almost all the effort they were willing to spend was put on the SM codex, with just enough on the GK codex to release it.

 

I think the SM codex is pretty :cussty, but then again, I think most of the codexes are pretty poor in terms of rules. There's just so much generic things being given to all factions, which reduces the flavour of each army significantly. ie, "subtract 1 from any To Hit rolls made at this unit over 12" and "if this unit charges, roll a D6 for each model in the unit. On a 6, that model deals a mortal wound to the unit it charged".

 

We just happen to be at the bottom of the pile.

[Muaddib]

That list would fall apart completely in my local scene. Most aren't even tournament lists.

You still don’t provide me any « non-tournament » list that would crush mine... DA, SM, GI or Tyranids would be perfect, I could try to face them more easily!!!

[Gentlemanloser]

You could always try the second list i faced yesterday. Don't know the points so there's a little room for optimisation.

 

Supreme Command (leviathan)

Flyrant rending claws and the assault 6 guns x5

 

Vanguard (kronos)

Neuro

6x zoanthropes

3x Hive Guard no los gun

3x Hive Guard no los gun

Exo

Exo

[Muaddib]

You could always try the second list i faced yesterday. Don't know the points so there's a little room for optimisation.

 

Supreme Command (leviathan)

Flyrant rending claws and the assault 6 guns x5

 

Vanguard (kronos)

Neuro

6x zoanthropes

3x Hive Guard no los gun

3x Hive Guard no los gun

Exo

Exo

He said « non-tournament » list ^^

Like no more than 1x3 of the same unit.

(Most touney in France won’t allow that lins of list, for the sake of fun btw).

But with a spam of gmndk of my own and a bunch of Interceptors I’d say I can take them ;)

[Gentlemanloser]

Its not the adepticon list! :P

[Muaddib]

Its not the adepticon list! :P

Right, only 5 flyrants... But quite dirty anyway...

Like I said, I face stuff like:

Captain

Leftenant

Devastator Lascan

Devastator plasma

Predator lascan

5 black Knights

Dark shroud

Sammael/master of the Hunt

Few bikes

And few other things for CP.

It’s decent I think. And i beat him every time with the list I post earlier.

My point is, we can do really well against any day-to-day list, and it’s a shame that we can’t talk of that kind of games and the strategy who comes with it.

I understand that we’re not equiped to face the kind of list you post, and it can be frustrating. But GK are far from garbage.

The « boring » point is much more relevent, in any kind of game imho...

[Gentlemanloser]

Dangel player *not* using Hellblasters?

 

That's like GK not using GMNDK!

[Helycon]

 

Its not the adepticon list! :P

Right, only 5 flyrants... But quite dirty anyway...

Like I said, I face stuff like:

Captain

Leftenant

Devastator Lascan

Devastator plasma

Predator lascan

5 black Knights

Dark shroud

Sammael/master of the Hunt

Few bikes

And few other things for CP.

It’s decent I think. And i beat him every time with the list I post earlier.

My point is, we can do really well against any day-to-day list, and it’s a shame that we can’t talk of that kind of games and the strategy who comes with it.

I understand that we’re not equiped to face the kind of list you post, and it can be frustrating. But GK are far from garbage.

The « boring » point is much more relevent, in any kind of game imho...

Whilst the list for DA isn't bad, he's missing a couple of key elements, such as actual horde control. If you use mainly single wound models, such as Interceptors, you need Bolters or heavy Bolters. A Dark Talon will be an absolute pain to deal with, as will Aggressors and Inceptors. Inceptors with plasma are fun as well and can make life very difficult for heavy stuff, which melt in a single volley. Since GK suck at screening, you big nasty will get shot off the board. With assault Bolters, your Interceptors will have a hard time too, since their profiles are pretty much the same, except they're tougher and not nearly as good in melee.

I feel he has too many Devastators, is missing Azrael there if he wants to keep them, and is missing something that is your actual Achilles heel: some actual flyers.

 

Your smites simply won't do at that point.

[Muaddib]

 

 

Its not the adepticon list! :P

Right, only 5 flyrants... But quite dirty anyway...

Like I said, I face stuff like:

Captain

Leftenant

Devastator Lascan

Devastator plasma

Predator lascan

5 black Knights

Dark shroud

Sammael/master of the Hunt

Few bikes

And few other things for CP.

It’s decent I think. And i beat him every time with the list I post earlier.

My point is, we can do really well against any day-to-day list, and it’s a shame that we can’t talk of that kind of games and the strategy who comes with it.

I understand that we’re not equiped to face the kind of list you post, and it can be frustrating. But GK are far from garbage.

The « boring » point is much more relevent, in any kind of game imho...

Whilst the list for DA isn't bad, he's missing a couple of key elements, such as actual horde control. If you use mainly single wound models, such as Interceptors, you need Bolters or heavy Bolters. A Dark Talon will be an absolute pain to deal with, as will Aggressors and Inceptors. Inceptors with plasma are fun as well and can make life very difficult for heavy stuff, which melt in a single volley. Since GK suck at screening, you big nasty will get shot off the board. With assault Bolters, your Interceptors will have a hard time too, since their profiles are pretty much the same, except they're tougher and not nearly as good in melee.

I feel he has too many Devastators, is missing Azrael there if he wants to keep them, and is missing something that is your actual Achilles heel: some actual flyers.

 

Your smites simply won't do at that point.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate them and he will too :)

He doesn’t want to field Primaris for now (I’ve told him many times about the hellblasters and plasma inceptors. But he still rages about his 10000pts of soon-obsolete space marines :/ ).

 

One gmndk with a 2++ is really resilient, and he always spent some firepower on the stormraven.

He tried one of the flyers the last time, I just ignore it and focus on everything else while scoring maelström and he quits at the end of turn 4 with 3 models left and many points late (not sure of that sentence, sorry

[Capt. Mytre]

 

 

Its not the adepticon list!

Right, only 5 flyrants... But quite dirty anyway...

Like I said, I face stuff like:

Captain

Leftenant

Devastator Lascan

Devastator plasma

Predator lascan

5 black Knights

Dark shroud

Sammael/master of the Hunt

Few bikes

And few other things for CP.

It’s decent I think. And i beat him every time with the list I post earlier.

My point is, we can do really well against any day-to-day list, and it’s a shame that we can’t talk of that kind of games and the strategy who comes with it.

I understand that we’re not equiped to face the kind of list you post, and it can be frustrating. But GK are far from garbage.

The « boring » point is much more relevent, in any kind of game imho...

Whilst the list for DA isn't bad, he's missing a couple of key elements, such as actual horde control. If you use mainly single wound models, such as Interceptors, you need Bolters or heavy Bolters. A Dark Talon will be an absolute pain to deal with, as will Aggressors and Inceptors. Inceptors with plasma are fun as well and can make life very difficult for heavy stuff, which melt in a single volley. Since GK suck at screening, you big nasty will get shot off the board. With assault Bolters, your Interceptors will have a hard time too, since their profiles are pretty much the same, except they're tougher and not nearly as good in melee.

I feel he has too many Devastators, is missing Azrael there if he wants to keep them, and is missing something that is your actual Achilles heel: some actual flyers.

 

Your smites simply won't do at that point.

 

 

He's also obviously not trying or doesn't know how to counter GK. He's got more AT than he needs, when all he's going to shoot at with it is a rhino, GMNDK and stormraven. He also has zero screening and a bunch of close combat multiwound things that we excel at killing, he should be avoiding CC with us at all cost. Lastly, he doesn't have any screening units. That's a pretty big mistake this edition.

 

A proper list I feel would be more shooty with more plasma to kill our MEQ and TEQ infantry. Seems like a fairly weak list to me, at least when versing GK.

[Muaddib]

 

 

 

 

Its not the adepticon list!

Right, only 5 flyrants... But quite dirty anyway...

Like I said, I face stuff like:

Captain

Leftenant

Devastator Lascan

Devastator plasma

Predator lascan

5 black Knights

Dark shroud

Sammael/master of the Hunt

Few bikes

And few other things for CP.

It’s decent I think. And i beat him every time with the list I post earlier.

My point is, we can do really well against any day-to-day list, and it’s a shame that we can’t talk of that kind of games and the strategy who comes with it.

I understand that we’re not equiped to face the kind of list you post, and it can be frustrating. But GK are far from garbage.

The « boring » point is much more relevent, in any kind of game imho...

Whilst the list for DA isn't bad, he's missing a couple of key elements, such as actual horde control. If you use mainly single wound models, such as Interceptors, you need Bolters or heavy Bolters. A Dark Talon will be an absolute pain to deal with, as will Aggressors and Inceptors. Inceptors with plasma are fun as well and can make life very difficult for heavy stuff, which melt in a single volley. Since GK suck at screening, you big nasty will get shot off the board. With assault Bolters, your Interceptors will have a hard time too, since their profiles are pretty much the same, except they're tougher and not nearly as good in melee.

I feel he has too many Devastators, is missing Azrael there if he wants to keep them, and is missing something that is your actual Achilles heel: some actual flyers.

 

Your smites simply won't do at that point.

He's also obviously not trying or doesn't know how to counter GK. He's got more AT than he needs, when all he's going to shoot at with it is a rhino, GMNDK and stormraven. He also has zero screening and a bunch of close combat multiwound things that we excel at killing, he should be avoiding CC with us at all cost. Lastly, he doesn't have any screening units. That's a pretty big mistake this edition.

 

A proper list I feel would be more shooty with more plasma to kill our MEQ and TEQ infantry. Seems like a fairly weak list to me, at least when versing GK.

He tried with GI as allies for screening his spearhead detachement and low-cost smites spam. Didn’t work either :p

And my list has a rhino, pallies and only 5CP...

But ok, with all that we’ll try again :)

[Helycon]

Scouts are SO much better for screening, due to their forward deployment. They can also grab a Heavy Bolter and a Missile Launcher to unlock stratagems, if you feel they will survive first turn. Especially against Grey Knights screening is important, since they want to be at less that 12" from anything meaningfull, to unload a hail of Bolters, and charge anything that survives.

 

Paladins die to Overcharged Plasma and Weapons of the Dark Age, since you won't be rolling a ton of 5++, and a Chapter Ancient should be accompanying any unit of plasma, to make them blowing themselves up pay for itself in a good chance of another (couple of) shot(s). An Apothecary can add insult to injury too. Plasma also literally melts Rhinos. You blow it up, and Bolter it's contents. There are a lot of options as a Dark Angel Player, and to be fair, he's not using it to it's full potential at all. 

 

Plasma is the best thing Dark Angels have. Not using Hellblasters or Inceptors is a massive loss to anyone playing Dark Angels. If you're going into fluff, sure, it has it's reasons :)

[Capt. Mytre]

There's also the fact that you might just be better than him at 40k, two armies can be perfectly balanced, but skill will decide the winner.

[Helycon]

There's also the fact that you might just be better than him at 40k, two armies can be perfectly balanced, but skill will decide the winner.

 

Or luck, it's a dice game after all.