Rules Question-Firing from Inside Repressor

[Eddie Orlock]

... Saintly Blessings is in addition to your act of faith. ...

Also, it's most probably acts of faith in the plural.

 

See, 'Act of Faith' isn't formatted as a detachment benefit, but as a short form for a rule that each and every squad carries, thus once per turn each squad get to roll to see if they generate an act of faith. You can only use one standard generated act of faith per squad per turn though. Celestine's and Imagifier's abilities can be done in addition to the standard load.

[STTAB]

Thanks Gentlemen,

 

That's cleared things up for me a bit.

Wait a sec. Each squad each turn. Really?

[bkde]

Thanks Gentlemen,

 

That's cleared things up for me a bit.

Wait a sec. Each squad each turn. Really?

No, the response two above is incorrect. It's only one 2+ AoF for the army. Celestine's is a "free" AoF in addition that does not require a roll. Note that the same unit cannot be affected twice by the AoF rule twice per turn.

 

Further clarification is in the Index 2 FAQ, under the Adepta Sororitas question/answer section about how to resolve multiple AoF's etc.

[Eddie Orlock]

No, the response two above is incorrect. ...

 

Further clarification is in the Index 2 FAQ, under the Adepta Sororitas question/answer section about how to resolve multiple AoF's etc.

Nothing in this FAQ precludes the interpretation I offered.

 

I support the multiple acts interpretation by citing my prior arguments here and here.

 

While this may not be the customary answer, I've not yet seen it impeached from a clean reading of the texts. Now, I don't expect to convince anyone who's already seen this case, but I believe there's some value in exposing new players to it. Besides, by the end of the year they'll likely have changed the wording. Especially if I can raise this as an issue during any feed back requests.

[bkde]

The wording under AoF index (pg. 90) is clear:

 

"Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+ one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith from the following list..."

 

It's not one roll per unit with the ability, it's just one roll, period.

[Eddie Orlock]

The wording under AoF index (pg. 90) is clear ..

Equally clear is that this text functionally exists on each and every unit with the acts of faith ability, which means they each do this at the start of the turn.

 

Indeed, there's an implication of support for this in the FAQ response you cited earlier:

... A: You roll for and resolve Acts of Faith one at a time. There is no need to declare which Acts of Faith you will choose in advance.

Which implies the FAQ author expects rolling to resolve multiple acts is a probable occurrence in the game.

[bkde]

 

The wording under AoF index (pg. 90) is clear ..

Equally clear is that this text functionally exists on each and every unit with the acts of faith ability, which means they each do this at the start of the turn.

 

Indeed, there's an implication of support for this in the FAQ response you cited earlier:

... A: You roll for and resolve Acts of Faith one at a time. There is no need to declare which Acts of Faith you will choose in advance.

Which implies the FAQ author expects rolling to resolve multiple acts is a probable occurrence in the game.

I see how your interpretation applies, with each unit having the ability, however it does not say roll for each unit with this ability. Just roll one die. The only time the multiple rolls applies is with Imaginifiers.

 

If you're still unconvinced, I would recommend posting a comment on the Warhammer Community facebook page. They may take a few days to respond but are generally pretty good about getting back to people. If nothing else it would highlight that there is some ambiguity with this rule and correction in a future FAQ may be required

[Eddie Orlock]

... I would recommend posting a comment on the Warhammer Community facebook page. ...

Please do, by all means, and share back to us here any responses. I would, but I don't have a Facebook account.

[bkde]

That's too bad, the Warhammer Community page is quite helpful to ask questions and seek feedback. I posted on the site as follows:

 

"Hello, we had the following rules debate come up and I was wondering if you could clarify the Acts of Faith wording? If I have multiple units with the Acts of Faith ability do I make one die roll per turn and on a 2+ perform one of the Acts of Faith? Or do I roll for each unit in my army with the Acts of Faith special rule and each unit may perform an Act of Faith on a 2+? Thanks!"

[Mossback]

As to the Acts of Faith, I don't see how it could be interpreted any other way than you get one d6 roll, and on a 2+, you get an Act of Faith you can use on any of your UNITs that has the Act of Faith ability. Each Imagifier also gives you a chance on a 4+, to be used on a unit within 6". Celestine gives us an automatic free Act of Faith, to be used on a unit within 6".  If we had 10 UNITs in our formation, we would not get 10 d6 rolls, and you could use one passing roll on a UNIT that successfully made the roll. Our opponents would raise holy hell if we tried to pull that off.

[Drider]

Wow... That interpretation of the rules is so stupid everyone on this forum has lost IQ points from having read it.

Read the the AoF rule in the index in full.

ACTS OF FAITH Roll a D6 at the start of each of your turns. On a roll of 2+, one unit from your army with the Acts of Faith ability can perform an Act of Faith chosen from the following list. Some abilities may allow you to use more than one Act of Faith in the same turn; when this is the case, a different unit must be chosen to perform each Act of Faith.

 

No. AoF isn't a short form rule that each unit carries. It is an Ability Keyword that references the main army rule that allows the use of act of faith. 
You do not get to roll for a 2+ act of faith for each unit in your army with the AoF ability keyword. The Army rolls the dice the unit does not.
Some abilities may allow you to use more than one act of faith in the same turn, and the FAQs author's implication that you would be resolving AoFs per turn is in clear reference to Celestine and the Imagifier and now also the CA strat.

Besides the obvious, if every unit got to roll for it's own 2 up AoF what would even be the point in the imagifier? What would even be the point in Saintly Blessing? Don't try to argue that it would let you do multiple AoFs with the same unit as long as it's not the same AoF. That is so clearly so fundamentally wrong that it makes my head hurt just trying to think about it.

Look. The bottom line is this. If it looks to good to be true, then it probably is. If the rules are worded in such a way that it is possible through some convoluted feat of mental gymnastics to argue for some super powerful interpretation, then you are "That guy".

We've been on this ride before. First it was using the lose wording on Celestine and the Imagifier to "grant" AoFs to units without the ability. Then it was AoFs while embarked in transports. Both those arguments held a lot more water than this one and both were wrong. 

[Atrus]

RAW= 1d6 2+AoF for the army as a whole + any extra from Imagifier and Saintly Blessing.

 

RAI= 1d6 2+AoF for the army as a whole + any extra from Imagifier and Saintly Blessing.

 

Anything else is That Guy rules manipulation.

[Eddie Orlock]

To start, digitally screaming your argument in bright yellow doesn't actually make it a stronger argument. Actually, it makes your argument look like it's less based on logic and more on an emotional reaction and is thus likely to be qualitatively weaker.

No. AoF isn't a short form rule that each unit carries. It is an Ability Keyword that references the main army rule that allows the use of act of faith.

If it's a <keyword>, why isn't it in the keywords line of the datasheet? Clearly it's not a keyword, but a rule in and of itself

... The Army rolls the dice the unit does not. ...

This is near wholly without precedent in the index book series. Your closest analogue is Canticles of the Omnissiah, but this is clearly written differently. Conceptually, though, the notion that the blanket rule buffs every unit in the force is consistent.

... Besides the obvious, if every unit got to roll for it's own 2 up AoF what would even be the point in the imagifier? What would even be the point in Saintly Blessing? Don't try to argue that it would let you do multiple AoFs with the same unit as long as it's not the same AoF. That is so clearly so fundamentally wrong that it makes my head hurt just trying to think about it. ...

I'm not sure why you read that as wrong when it's exactly what the text says. No not quite, you've added an additional restriction against repeating acts that doesn't appear in the texts. Yes, you could move a unit three or more times in a turn with Celestine's cooperation.

 

Further, trying to rules lawyer away some players book granted ability is just as much a 'that guy' move as trying to read advantages into existence from nothing.

 

I'm glad you recognise we've been down this road before. After all, it's not like I linked directly to that prior journey near the top of this page.

I support the multiple acts interpretation by citing my prior arguments here and here.

 

... Now, I don't expect to convince anyone who's already seen this case, but I believe there's some value in exposing new players to it. ...

Our best course, rather than screaming digitally at each other is to lobby for a FAQ, oh, wait, people are already doing that.

[Aqui]

I don't profess to be an expert on Sisters rules, but as far as I can see, the answer to the original question has been answered, thereby, I'm closing this topic. The Answer to the subsequent question(s) is in my view worthy of an FAQ. Hopefully we will get a clarification on it. In future, it would be better to post rules related topics in the Official Rules section.