simison Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 With newfound understanding of B&C, I am opening this thread to continue the Discord conversation here, or, at the very least, better able to record ideas. A quick summary for those of you who have been unable to access Discord. About two weeks ago, a suggestion was made that we start a Brotherhood of the Lost Patreon page. We have set a voting date for April 1st in order to have the maximum potential to reach every member of BotL and to give them a chance to offer input. That is the bare bones of it all. The official vote will take place on April 1st and end on April 7th, barring a new motion to modify it. Throughout the two weeks, I have been soliciting opinions and feedback on stances in regard to this vote. Here is what I've found. Current attitude toward BotL Patreon: Here are our key concerns and potential benefits. Pros/Cons Con - Legal trouble (Could be shut down by GW) - Upsetting fanbase (Disappoint and frustrating fans by asking for financial support and not meeting expectations; fear of exploitation) - Financial Trouble (Might lose money on venture) - B&C Ban (Might be kicked out of B&C) Pro - Financially support project (Would allow regular art commissions outside of Maester's aid) - Accelerate work (give financial incentive for members to create more content) - Add layer of professionalism (Could pay for standardized rulebook images and models) - Expand armies (Support the creation of physical armies owned by members) - Improve Independence (Allow us to stand on our own) - Reward hard work (Potentially compensate members for time spent on BotL) - Career building (Could add BotL work to resumes) Potential Budget Priorities -Establishing back-up/reserve forum ($50-$100) -Commissioning art (Variable cost; set money amount for use; Drak available?) [2 Votes for Priority #2] -Purchasing Models (Variable cost; set money amount for use; Mikhal available) -Painting models (Variable cost; set money amount for use; Blind and Mikhal available) -Member Compensation (Debatable; unknown cost) -Drawing/Contest Awards (Variable; set money amount for use) -Travel expenses? -Funding B&C Potential Patron Tiers & Rewards -Proposed Tiers of 1, 5, & 10 minimum, (additional tiers?) -Hero models for Patrons (Mikhal willing, Mid-to-High Tier) - -Early/regular access to content (e.g. Second Son posts available to $1 Patrons and up) [One vote against] -Access to Discord Server (High-Tier) (Forum access?) -Voting access on story priority & direction (Mid-to-High Tier) [One Vote against] -Credit given in rulebooks, divided by Patron tier Posters of Art (Mid-Tier?) -Colour Schemes (Mid-Tier) Bound prints of rulebooks (High Tier) -Access to BotL Batreports (Mid-Tier?) [One Vote Against] -Entry into periodic drawings/contests (All Tiers?) [One Vote Against] Finally, I have begun a system of proposals that we will vote upon after the Patreon overall vote. These proposals can either be voted during the same week of April or we can wait after that week to hammer out the details. I'll give an outline and the current proposals. Proposal # Category: (Budget Priority, Patron Tier/Reward, Central Content) Summary: Proposal #1 Category: Budget Priority Summary: Secure independent forum for project use; reserving $50-$100 for its maintenance. Declare it first Budget Priority. [i retract my first proposal in light of recent conversation with the Administratum.] Proposal #2 Category: Budget Priority Summary: Establish initial pool of $50 to purchase/commission art. Set as second Budget Priority. [Amend to be first priority.] Yay: Mikhal, Bluntblade, Kelborn, Blind, Beren Proposal #3 Category: Budget Priority Summary: Establish initial pool of $50 to purchase models representing units and individuals within the BotL AU. Set as third Budget Priority. Yay: Mikhal, Kelborn, Blind, Beren Proposal #4 Category: Budget Priority Summary: Establish initial pool of $50 to purchase models representing units and commission models to be painted within the BotL AU. Set as fourth Budget Priority. Yay: Blind Proposal #5 Category: Budget Priority Summary: Establish initial pool of $50 to compensate active members for services rendered to the BotL project. Set as fifth Budget Priority. Yay: Blind Proposal #6 Category: Patron Reward Summary: Establish tiered system of credit and acknowledgment within rulebooks in proportion to patron tier and support. Yay: Shadow Proposal #7 Category: Budget Priority Summary: Establish initial pool of $50 to be set for donating to Bolter and Chainsword operation and maintenance. Set as second Budget Priority. Yay: Beren Proposal #8 Category: Budget Priority Summary: Establish initial pool of $50 for patreon investment to fund rewards, drawings, etc. for patrons. Set as sixth Budget Priority. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 One major debate of all of this is with Proposal #5, member compensation. Put plainly, many members are uncomfortable with accepting money for a hobby. Grifft has suggested alternate means of compensation for those who want no cash, such as receiving models in lieu of money. I have suggested a potential hybrid compensation system. Upon enrollment, a member selects a method of compensation: money, models, art commissions, or a potential fourth choice. We take the compensation pool and divide it equally between members who were active in the previous month. For non-money compensation, an active member will select a goal, for example a dreadnought. Each month they are active, they will earn credit toward the dreadnought until there is an eventual payout. An additional aspect of the debate is what qualifies as 'active'. We could keep it relatively simple. Anyone who posts or contributes something to the project gets a share of the monthly pot. However we could also introduce a tier-system. If all someone did was say 'hi', they would qualify for the bare minimum, a third of their potential share. The next tier would be 'theoretical' level. They suggested a contact, took part in a brainstorm, or otherwise contributed material that can be converted into published work. The final tier would be 'practical' level. This is where someone writes a story, creates content that will feature in the rulebooks, or painted a model from BotL. They have in some manner advanced the project's progress. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5034850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Redd has suggested that as one of the Patron rewards is access to blogs, vlogs, and even a podcast. The podcast could be done with Redd and myself, while Raktra and Helter are also close enough that they could do one as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5036495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Voting is now open on the Patreon page. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSwordmaster Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Redd has suggested that as one of the Patron rewards is access to blogs, vlogs, and even a podcast. The podcast could be done with Redd and myself, while Raktra and Helter are also close enough that they could do one as well. Will this podcast be available to the people who work on the project? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Redd has suggested that as one of the Patron rewards is access to blogs, vlogs, and even a podcast. The podcast could be done with Redd and myself, while Raktra and Helter are also close enough that they could do one as well. Will this podcast be available to the people who work on the project? It'd be my intention that anything produced for the project will be made freely available to fellow project mates. Might require a bunch of PMs to prevent losing its fiscal value, but we'll make it work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 There are a couple of ways where we can make Podcasts available via invite or patron only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSwordmaster Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I like 6 the most. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I like 6 the most. Every proposal is open to a yay/nay vote, in addition to the Patreon page itself. Additionally, people can submit their own proposals. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 #2 and #3 are my favs Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSwordmaster Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 I'm Yay on the Patreon page itself now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045656 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Yay on patreon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Slips was nice enough to add a proper poll to the vote. Feel free to use it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlindPrimarch Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I vote yay Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045955 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 2 & 3 We need more depictions and presentable artwork. ;) And yes for patron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5045973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Priority 2 gets my full vote. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5046009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Running numbers. 24 possible votes (barring a random visitor sneaking in), three of which are unlikely to show up (AO, Squig, & Drak). So, a likely vote total of 21. I've also updated the Proposal votes. Keep in mind, all of the current budget proposals are designed to work with each other since each one is given a different level of priority. So, at this point, no one proposal conflicts with another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5046134 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlindPrimarch Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I'm for proposals 2,3,4,& 5 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5046345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 I'm for proposals 2,3,4,& 5 Recorded. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5046372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Votes for 2,3 and 7 How many votes does it take for something to pass? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5046399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Votes for 2,3 and 7 How many votes does it take for something to pass? In theory, with 21 votes, 11 votes would be enough to pass any vote or proposal. Ideally, we'd have all 21 votes before declaring the official result, but given that we can't guarantee with that, we'll have to go with majority rules. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5046417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 With 12 yays, no nays, and 4 ambivalents, that accounts for 16 votes out of a likely total of 21. The Patreon vote passes. Is there anyone who wants to manage the page? Voting will continue, but now focus on the page itself. I'd also like to expand on Proposal #6. $5 patrons will be listed in a book's Afterword. $10 patrons will be listed in a book's 'Thanks to' section. I originally thought about having the $1 level be the Afterword and going from there, but I'm concerned that if we get past a couple of hundred patrons, we'll start running out of room. Also, about Discord access. What do people think of establishing an explicit fan Discord server? That would give fans more access to us (who were willing), while preventing any kind of compromise of our main server. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5046882 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 I've tried to do a thing. This link should contain a survey of the funding objectives. Let me know if it worked: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/ZMCQTLR Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5048633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
simison Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 Happy to report the survey monkey is working as intended. 7 responses so far, which means that's about a third of the potential votes. The biggest surprise I've seen so far is resistance against giving money to B&C. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5049241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhalLeNoir Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 What? Resistance against B&C? Can't understand it. They were our home when we started. I Think it is just fair to give something back. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345352-patreon-discussion-thread/#findComment-5049315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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