Thousand Sons "Daemon Prince"

[Archaeinox]

I don't like the plastic daemon prince so I just bulked up a character with "talons" on a bigger disc and a 60mm base to match the size of the plastic prince kit.

 

My idea is that he is some sort of advanced Daemonic Possession that Ahriman perpetuated on one of his cabal, to use as a weapon and release upon the world etc etc.

 

 

[Pearson73]

Cool idea, he looks good, espeically the whirling spirits around the base.

[Charlo]

Very cool - I think his head could do with being all warp-ed up (same glow as a the magic around him?)

[Skerr]

Very cool idea for a counts as.  Same size and I would not mind.  Great job!

[Archaeinox]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions- originally I had started to just do glowy green eyes that were bright but I found a tiny brush under some stuff. So I set to work experimenting. I'm not super in love with the eyes but I definitely will keep it since I got locked in and spent so much damn time on cleaning them up lol

[Raven1]

What are you using for disk?

[Scammel]

I fear I might be That Guy - it's an exceptionally cool, well-painted model, but it's a power armour-wearing sorcerer on a disc. It obviously depends on what context you typically play in, but it certainly wouldn't fly at Warhammer World and I don't think opponents would be unreasonable to use those same standards as a baseline. I love counts-as for models that don't sit in the range but are an amazing fit (Ogroid/Morghast Princes, Ghast Spawn etc.) but the model above has a profile tailor-made for it.

 

In fact, I think it's a shame that there's sometimes a tendency for modellers to 'upgrade' their characters on the table top. Codex: Space Marines probably worsened the situation with not-Vulkan and his ilk, but I think it's a missed opportunity when players pass up on personalised generic characters for more powerful equivalents, as if the coolness of the conversion doesn't justify itself.

 

Hope that didn't come across as mean-spirited... Love the model!

[Kite Senet]

I appreciate Scammel's sentiment, but to be fair, Exalted Sorcerers *can* indeed ascend to Daemon Princes. I think it's entirely fair to occasionally depict an actual ascended Daemon Prince rather than the GW model that seems to depict, in my opinion at least, a more neverborn-like Daemon Prince. I also have a feeling the model looks substantially less like a plain old Exalted Sorcerer in person, and the photography is working to downplay the hand modification's effect in changing the appearance.

[Archaeinox]

I'm also using Spirit Hosts as Chaos Spawn, they fly in AoS but Spawn in 40k do not fly, so, by that logic I shouldn't be using them?

[Zodd1888]

That made me think of Spirit Hosts as Flamers in 40k... Burning spirits of Rubrics past lost at The Burning of Prospero.

 

That'd actually look pretty hot, very DnD Disciple of Mephistopheles. Make them look sad like The Scream using shades/highlights and white on the face blending back to the orange/red as you're further from their burning face and hands. Oooo...

[Kite Senet]

I think the logic less has to do with directly inferring rules from arbitrary other rule sets or even their physical appearance and more to do with the sportsmanlike practice of minimizing your opponent's confusion in-game. There is no room for confusion with Spirit Hosts--at worst they forget what the Spirit Hosts represent and have to ask. However, if you *also* run a bunch of Exalted Sorcerers who may have a similar paint scheme in addition to this Exalted Sorcerer+extras model depicting a Daemon Prince, then there could be room for your opponent to mistake the Daemon Prince for an Exalted Sorcerer. However, I think you have largely nullified this probability with your conversion work.

 

I don't mean to be picky; I'm just wary of the issue myself, since I myself spent $150 on Silver Tower not too long ago with a large part of my reasoning being "That Ogroid Thaumaturge would make a great Daemon Prince of Tzeentch!" and now I'm wary of whether it might be slightly on the small side. I've never actually seen the Daemon Prince model though so I have nothing to really compare it to in terms of scale.

[Skerr]

You def went to trouble of giving it girth and volume to emulate the wingspan, overall height and footprint of a DP.

[Archaeinox]

I won't be at Warhammer World any time soon. Many of my opponents can't be bothered with fully assembling their army, so I don't take too much stock in what they consider a bad proxy to be honest. I'd be glad to sub out this model for an exalted sorcerer or something and it would give me the points to give Ahriman a disc so all good, I suppose.

[Panzer]

It's a great model and generally I wouldn't mind seeing it as DP as opponemt, however I too feel it looks too close to a regular sorcerer on disc. Probably because he looks too human still.

[Archaeinox]

Fair assessments, for sure, from everyone

 

Personally I think the tragic/creepy part is that he does look so human.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

I won't be at Warhammer World any time soon. Many of my opponents can't be bothered with fully assembling their army, so I don't take too much stock in what they consider a bad proxy to be honest. I'd be glad to sub out this model for an exalted sorcerer or something and it would give me the points to give Ahriman a disc so all good, I suppose.

 

I don't think most people really will care that much, so long as you show it to them first and explain what it is. Most of the bad experiences in the hobby are tied to people not being upfront with their opponents. 

 

It's a great model and generally I wouldn't mind seeing it as DP as opponemt, however I too feel it looks too close to a regular sorcerer on disc. Probably because he looks too human still.

 

I could see a person who ascends from a legion that has feared the flesh change for a long time, trying to hold onto their old appearance as long as possible. Not everyone would but I think it fits well. That and there is a big difference between what sorcerers are described as being capable of, and the reality of the rules. As long as the size is a fair match, effort is put in so that it is clearly different from the original model it represented, and the player is upfront about what it is I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.   

[Archaeinox]

Remember in the 3.5 codex you could be a Daemon Prince because of your number of gifts, and it wasnt even a requirement that you have the Daemonic Stature gift.

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Remember in the 3.5 codex you could be a Daemon Prince because of your number of gifts, and it wasnt even a requirement that you have the Daemonic Stature gift.

 

Yeah and that's a fair point for third and fourth edition. In a true LOS system a converted model should be similar in size to what it represents, otherwise people may suspect your modeling for advantage. The model you've shown has the added height and base so its good imo. 

[Archaeinox]

I played it last night against a Custodes player and he said it worked out in an appropriate way. He could easily distinguish the prince from the other guys on disc after he was aware of what it was. So that's encouraging

[Xenith]

I fear I might be That Guy - it's an exceptionally cool, well-painted model, but it's a power armour-wearing sorcerer on a disc.

If you think a power armoured wearing sorcerer on a disc cannot be a Daemon prince, then my friend, you don't know chaos very well.

[Heliomanes]

Interesting concept and execution, but I'm in the "this is an exalted sorcerer" camp. I like the idea of deamonically ascended sorcerers though - the question is how to bring this across to the model, rather than the feeling I currently get, that this is a really powerful sorcerer - which is also really cool, of course. Again, I like the model, just unsure if the daemon prince rules are those who best portray the model.

So, step one, is this a bound daemon? Or a unbound one? If Ahriman bound a deamon into one of his cabal sorcerers, then perhaps he would bind it there in some way. The classic ways of portraying that would be a hovering figure, with torn chains and parchment containing scrollwork with glyphs and wards of sealing, but you could find other ways to portray this idea. I toyed with the idea of using power armored "possessed", using entirely blackened armor filled with glowing scripts and seals added on with micropen or transfers. Adding inhuman postures, with joints bending unnaturally, is also a classic way of portraying this.

A sorcerer seeking and achieving daemonic apotheosis is a different type of creature entirely, and technically speaking, they can of course take any possible form. Still, it's good to show off the Legion connection, and communicate that this creature has ascended its physical form in some way. If you want to base it on power armor, then maybe consider removing the disc, and let him levitate by his own power - a common way of portraying some level of transcendence that has been attributed to ascended masters of different cultures, religions and philosophies for millennia. The tzeentchian daemonic element is also an interesting thing to try to add in more strongly to make the daemonic ascension more clear to the viewer. Feathers, multiple eyes, tentacles - we all know and love the tropes. But you can do a lot more, of course. I toyed with the idea of a daemon utilizing multiple bodies ala "The Talon of Horus", using twin or triplet sorcerers on the same base, sharing the same soul in ascension, for instance. Or something more trippy, like a single meditating figure hovering over an absurd amount of bodies, or a sorcerer with a dozen arms, like a hindu deity. My own daemon prince is an empty shell that is riding the corrupted creature that was once his tutelary, before they turned against them when Prospero fell.

Hope you don't take this the wrong way. I like the model, just wanted to make a few suggestions rather than a simple "yay or nay".

[FirstSonofHorus]

 

I fear I might be That Guy - it's an exceptionally cool, well-painted model, but it's a power armour-wearing sorcerer on a disc.

If you think a power armoured wearing sorcerer on a disc cannot be a Daemon prince, then my friend, you don't know chaos very well.

 

 

I don't think that is really the prblem - it is more that from a quick glance it looks like an exalted sorceror on a disk, not a daemon prince. The profile/silhouette is nothing like a daemon prince and very much like an exalted sorceror. Personally I wouldn't care, as long as it was clarified at the start, but I think it is reasonable that some may not like that. There are enough rules and things to remember in your own army before having to remember the opponent's.

[Archaeinox]

I get what you guys are saying, and I appreciate the thoughts.

 

However, I will never leave my town to play 40k and the group I play in just doesn't care. I was just sharing something I painted up here on the site.

 

Like I said, I'm just happy to encounter an army that is BASECOATED and not just grey plastic.

[Gederas]

I'm going to throw my two cents in on this:

That Daemon Prince/Exalted Sorcerer conversion/counts-as is awesome. That being said, it can be mistaken for an Exalted Sorcerer on a disk if all the other Exalted Sorcerers on disks are like that. However, I'd also say a good way of making it more obvious he's not an Exalted Sorcerer is maybe making his skin something very much NOT human? Maybe azure or gold?

 

Additionally: This conversion looks TALLER than the official Daemon Prince model.

 

Archaeinox, can you post a picture of the Daemon Prince compared to the other Exalted Sorcerers? Because this:

I played it last night against a Custodes player and he said it worked out in an appropriate way. He could easily distinguish the prince from the other guys on disc after he was aware of what it was. So that's encouraging

 

Makes me think the Daemon Prince is quite different in terms of general looks than the "normal" Exalted Sorcerers.

[Archaeinox]

Sure, when I open my shop I'll try and snap a pic or two