How tall is Abaddon?

[battle captain corpus]

@Slann Drakkos: people are using the facts bud, in some cases its being cited from new Black Library work etc. My suggestion (purely as an ex Mod obviously) is probably just let it be?

 

Unless anyone has some canon if Abs against a measuring stick its all just rule of cool and toy soldiers if I'm wrong?...... :)

 

BCC

[Canadian_F_H]

I think he should be exactly the size and proportion of the new model he is getting very soon ... (I hope)

[Paradigm]

It isn't headcannon and you haven't really offered any evidence except 30k era and not long after it. It states in all recent descriptions of Abbadon he is massive. It's only his 30k era account that he isn't. In the Talon of Horus book, he goes from being a slightly taller Astartes, to near the stature of Horus, and by the end of Black Legion a monster of an Astartes. Khayon says all he sees when he looks at him is Horus. By the time he is described in the Night Lords series he is a walking avatar of the power of chaos, and almost akin to the emperor in that people who look upon him see what they expect to see. Him being both slightly taller than Sigismund and at once also the same size as Horus is evidence that we are correct, not that all descriptions of him being nearly primarch sized are false.

We also know that Daemonic Stature has been and is a thing. Literally one of the most common gifts of the chaos gods is getting really damn big. 

Either way, if people keep thinking he is a clone son of Horus, then chaos is happy to oblige them in seeing him as such. 

Here is the most recent description of Abbadon from Black Legion:

"It was common knowledge that no Space Marine took after their primarch as obviously as Ezekyle Abaddon took after the Warmaster. But seeing him stripped of battleplate and pretension alike, the similarity was nothing short of revelatory. I finally gave voice to a question many had considered, yet none had dared ask. 'Are you Horus?' ....

... This immense figure in the suspension tank... demigod like stature... a legend whispered across the galaxy. 'Are you Horus? Are you his clone? His Son?

'What do you believe, Khayon? Do you think I am?' (said Abbadon)

'Yes.' (said Khayon)

 

... Would that change anything?

Then from the end of the Talon of Horus:

 

In his armour, Abbadon was the equal of his father's clone, both in stature and in the fury he emanated...

... in that moment as they stood before me, only their wounds and armament set them apart. In all else, they were twins.

...(Horus says) , 'Ezekyle.... It's you. It's you, my brother... (a moment passes) My son, my son.'

 

(Abbadon responds) 'I am not your son.'

 

The only way this makes any sense at all, is if he is close in stature to Horus, and/or pumped up by the power of chaos or thirdly is actually a clone of Horus.

[Borky]

So from a modelling perspective I think the more imposing, larger Abaddon makes sense. If/when I make a start on the conversion I’ll post pictures. I started painting a Black Legion berserker the other day and remembered how much I despise painting (I know, I know, it’s a huge part of the hobby). Either way, thank you for all your help people!

[Kite Senet]

The only way this makes any sense at all, is if he is close in stature to Horus, and/or pumped up by the power of chaos or thirdly is actually a clone of Horus.

I disagree that you have exhausted all possibilities, in that there is also the possibility (insofar as I am aware) that the clone may have been defective and thus closer to Abaddon in height. (Though this is purely a disagreement based on logical rigor, and personally I agree that Abaddon is at least of the same stature as Horus. I just think one *could* make the argument that the clone was shorter still.)

[Khalan]

He is as big as the story needs him to be.

[Paradigm]

I didn't add that Khayon also explicitly qualifies the clone as being Horus Lupercal in his entirety, but without the empowerment of the pantheon. It warrants it's own paragraph, so I don't think he is an imperfect clone. As further evidence of this, the clone fits in the armor that Horus was wearing at Terra and welds Worldbreaker one-handed, which is described as too unwealdy for a marine to effectively use even two-handed.

You are right there are other logical conclusions, though. I get what you are saying. I think the most likely outcome besides the ones I suggested is that Khayon is lying. Though I don't think so, and it also requires the eventual outcome to still be the same, unless both Khayon is lying, and Talos is lying later in the Night Lords Trilogy.

The hard part to reconcile for me, is that it's likely that Abbadon by the 40k era is not only as big and capable as a primarch, but is actually a better leader than one. With the same gifts Horus had without any of the blindness. Especially post Dark Imperium. In the 30k era is very much a highly capable Astartes, but is just an Astartes. By 13th black crusade he is so much more.

[Kite Senet]

You bring up a very interesting point regarding Abaddon's leadership ability, but I think this may be a relative effect. Horus had a lot of fellows of equal status on his side--dealing with Angron on Istvaan in particular demonstrating the saintly patience only bestowed to mothers--and I think it would be fair to say Horus's hands were substantially tied by his equals in the command structure. Abaddon contrariwise has no such problem; the Daemon Primarchs are happy to do only their patron god's bidding, and most of the rest are dead, so Abaddon has essentially inherited the title of Warmaster with no other able to compete for the title (partially because Abaddon ensures they don't last long enough to try).

[Midnightmare]

 

 

Why not just go with the 30k Abaddon and then greenstuff chaos based items on as needed?

I've seen it talked about, but I can't distinctly remember actually seeing it done... TO GOOGLE!

apparently, nobody has done it before.

 

I don't imagine it being that difficult though. Just cut off the tassles, replace the tassles in between the legs with a tabard, add a skull darling from some chains and glue it to the tabard, take the trophy rack from the original and glue it on to the back, put the correct portions of a stormbolter on to his talon, replace his sword with dra'kyen, and then greenstuff his filigree to be be more embroidered like most CSM and you'd be done.

Here is mine -

http://i.imgur.com/V5U3TtG.jpg

He is on his rock, but....size comparison with Chosen

http://i.imgur.com/6CUc2tg.jpg

[bluntblade]

Someone squared the circle a while ago and simply swapped Abaddon's head and Drach'nyen onto the FW Horus.

[Xenith]

Remember that Khayon is an unreliable narrator, and you cannot 100% believe everything he says.

 

It would be in his interest to have the Imperium believe that Abaddon is actually 10ft tall, shoots lightning out of his arse and is actually Horus reborn. It would help break the will of the defenders.

 

Remember what happened to anyone that had seen Abaddon get wounded? They're building his legend, his mythos in those books.

[Ishagu]

I don't doubt he's a big dude, probably taller than a regular Astartes.

His armour, if modified could help make him even more imposing. Horus' sons did take on some of the appearance traits of the warmaster, so he could look similar in appearance, hence the clone rumours and such.

 

I expect him to be wearing a custom hulking suit of Cataphractii warplate when his new model is released.

[Deadass]

Remember that Khayon is an unreliable narrator, and you cannot 100% believe everything he says.

It would be in his interest to have the Imperium believe that Abaddon is actually 10ft tall, shoots lightning out of his arse and is actually Horus reborn. It would help break the will of the defenders.

Remember what happened to anyone that had seen Abaddon get wounded? They're building his legend, his mythos in those books.

Khayon did swear that "every word on these pages is true", and though there's a chance that he is still changing the story to make his lord appear more intimidating, I feel inclined to believe him on the subject of Abaddon's height.

That said, 30k Abaddon is still a pretty good fit for a 40k model. On my recent trip to Warhammer Fest Europe, I saw this diorama displaying his duel with Sigismund at the end of Black Legion:

Hidden Content

He's not really primarch-sized, but the miniature certainly does fit the bill of a warlord of his calibre. Add Drach'nyen, trophy racks and a few additional chaos icons to the already impressive Greenstuff work on his shoulders and legs, and you've got yourself a decent depiction of the Despoiler.

[bluntblade]

Well according to Betrayal, his armour was custom-made for his size even before the Heresy

[Slan Drakkos]

Remember that Khayon is an unreliable narrator, and you cannot 100% believe everything he says.

It would be in his interest to have the Imperium believe that Abaddon is actually 10ft tall, shoots lightning out of his arse and is actually Horus reborn. It would help break the will of the defenders.

Remember what happened to anyone that had seen Abaddon get wounded? They're building his legend, his mythos in those books.

close, but not quite there. When Khayon and the group meet Abaddon for the first time, he's not stated to be significantly bigger than any other them. Also, he goes out of his way on numerous occasions to show and state that Abaddon has weaknesses. If he were really trying to make Abaddon seem even deadlier, he would've said that he beat Sigismund easily. Instead, Telemachon says that Abaddon was playing with him, while Khayon and Abaddon explicitly say that Sigi would've easily kicked his teeth in if he wasn't so old.

 

Khayon can be unreliable at times (I'm 100% certain that him saying "Abaddon and Horus are practically the same guy" is hyperbole), but all in all, he seems to be telling (an admittedly biased) truth.

[Xenith]

 

Remember that Khayon is an unreliable narrator, and you cannot 100% believe everything he says.

It would be in his interest to have the Imperium believe that Abaddon is actually 10ft tall, shoots lightning out of his arse and is actually Horus reborn. It would help break the will of the defenders.

Remember what happened to anyone that had seen Abaddon get wounded? They're building his legend, his mythos in those books.

close, but not quite there. When Khayon and the group meet Abaddon for the first time, he's not stated to be significantly bigger than any other them.

So what you're saying is that the details of Khayons story changes over time, as by the end of Black Legion Abaddon's a giant a bigger than all of them.

 

Remember you're dealing with a champion of the god of deceit. You can't take everything at face value.

[Paradigm]

I think it solely has to do with the warp. In the warp beliefs are made manifest. Even if Abbadon looked nothing like Horus, and was a particularly small Astartes, by the end of two novels where folks compare him to Horus, he’d be his splitting image.

 

But, we start out with a large Astartes who already looks like him. He is positively imbued with the warp after he defeats Sigismund. Everyone sees him as a better Horus, so the warp is obliging.

 

I don’t think the story is changing because it’s not fully true, we aren’t dealing with an objective reality, but with a subjective one. All can be true equally at the point in the story as told. As far as the changer cares, how better to tell a lie than to make it entirely true? Then you make liars out of the listener who doesn’t believe it. Thus serving the interests of tzeentch unwillingly, but with conviction.