+1 attack

[BaldrickRSA]

Hello,

 

So I am looking to give my DC Unit/s +1 attack when charging. Other than the Sanginor (which I personally do not rate) and the librarian power unleash rage, are there any other options to provide/give units +1 attack?

[toaae]

Nope. Those are the two.

[Panzer]

Those two and Chainswords. That's it.

[Majkhel]

Make sure they charge. Then you'll get additional attack ;) (Black Rage)

[Morticon]

Hello,

 

So I am looking to give my DC Unit/s +1 attack when charging. Other than the Sanginor (which I personally do not rate) and the librarian power unleash rage, are there any other options to provide/give units +1 attack?

 

Any reason why you dont particularly rate the Sanguinor?7

[SydonianDragoon404]

170 points is a lot to pay for his statline and loadout. Especially when you can get +1 attack from unleash rage. Honestly, dropping down, casting the power, and sending the DC on their merry way plays out a lot more smoothly in terms of mechanics than trying to make sure you daisy chain them back to the 6'' aura on the drop. 

[Kallas]

170 points is a lot to pay for his statline and loadout. Especially when you can get +1 attack from unleash rage. Honestly, dropping down, casting the power, and sending the DC on their merry way plays out a lot more smoothly in terms of mechanics than trying to make sure you daisy chain them back to the 6'' aura on the drop.

The daisy chain requires zero lost attacks.

 

And the Sanguinor is definitely a much tougher cookie than a Librarian in a scrap.

[toaae]

Also the Sanguinor has 0 risk, while it's far too easy for a psychic power to fail.

[Thoridon]

I think it depends on the unit setup.

 

If you have typical bolter (or pistol) and chainsword DC they're already at 3 attacks normally, 4 on the charge. Adding a 5th on them is only a 25% increase in attacks, at base strength with no AP and single damage. In that situation the Sanguinor probably wouldn't be providing enough oomph for his cost.

 

On DC with Hammers they're only at 2 normal attacks, 3 on the charge, so the extra would be a 33% increase. With the double strength, strong AP and 3 damage that'd then see the effectiveness of the Sanguinor aura shoot up.

 

I still like Sanguinor best with SG though. Taking them from 2 to 3 attacks is a 50% increase and they really need it.

 

Unless you're very heavy on hammers my inclination would be that the cheaper Librarian is possibly better used with a DC unit. No guarantee you'll get the extra attack but he can do other stuff too and there's not a huge drop off if it fails.

Edited March 20, 2018 by Thoridon

[Morticon]

170 points is a lot to pay for his statline and loadout. Especially when you can get +1 attack from unleash rage. Honestly, dropping down, casting the power, and sending the DC on their merry way plays out a lot more smoothly in terms of mechanics than trying to make sure you daisy chain them back to the 6'' aura on the drop. 

Check out the Observation thread where we discuss how to comfortably get within the 6" from a 9" drop charge.  Far more reliable than the Libby.  The saguinor for  50 points  more gains a 2+ save, 4++, a monstrous 6 attacks (and buffs multiple squads), and has a S6, -4 weapon that hits on 2s.

 

 

This all being said, I dont often use Sanguinor, because I use other units that I find have different synergies -though if i was looking for a +1, I dont understand how he's a bad idea given his incredible statline? 

 

 

[toaae]

-snip-

 

How many attacks you have before doesn't matter, unless you're in overkill territory. No matter what the base attack of a unit is, you're getting +1 per model. Therefore, the bonus applies best to special weapons and big units, regardless of the base attack value. SG are good targets for +1 attack not because they only have two to start, but because they have AP-3, D3 weapons. On the flip side, 15 Death Company with Bolters and Chainswords are still worthy targets not because of anything other than their large unit size.

[Are Verlo]

The thing with the sanguinor is he can buff multiple units, even units using JPA or other «arrive from reserves». His aura can’t fail to cast or be denied.

 

If you also include a libby you can unleash rage on a unit in addition to the sang’s aura.

[tedzilla]

Sanguinor is 9" away from enemy and has a 6" bubble. 32mm=1.25" (base a) + .95 (under 1" combat range) + 1.25 (base b ) =3.45 so would be within 6". This gives the whole unit an extra attack and everyone should still be able to attack.

Edited March 20, 2018 by tedzilla

[Kallas]

@tedzilla: Yup! Here's the picture I posted in Mort's thread to demonstrate:

Unit charges.

Model #1 moves to 1" away from Enemy.

Model #2 moves to 1" away from #1.

Model #2 is within 6" of Character.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Honestly the Sanguinor statline and weapon does not impress me. He can get instagibbed by a damage D6 weapon with no rebuttal (like ignore damage), his weapon is D3 damage (which screws me over quite often), and yeah he's got a 2+ but guess what he's still T4. So no, his statline is anything but "incredible" for 170 points. Think about what your list is sacrificing for those 50 points over the Librarian. Two Lascannons? Not worth it. 

 

Not worth it especially considering that when you take a Librarian you get the second power, you get smite (mortal wounds are very valuable), and you get deny the witch support. 

 

I just don't see how taking yet another expensive beatstick is worth it for the aura. Maybe I have the completely wrong idea of how this faction is supposed to play given that I've only played 5 games using BA rules but I tried the Sanguinor twice and he just didn't work out. Both times that I tried to daisy chain the Death Company or Sang Guard back to him I couldn't do it because the squad was so depleted from overwatch and/or reaction fire stratagems on the drop. 

 

I don't know, maybe I just have the wrong idea on what to prioritize when building a list. 

[Morticon]

. So no, his statline is anything but "incredible" for 170 points. 

Maybe "incredible" is an oversell - But, I'm curious as to what else are you comparing him to in our dex? 5 Wounds, a 2+,4++ and 6x S6 attacks hitting on 2s means everything T5 or less is wounded on 2s.  That to me is great. 

 

 

 He can get instagibbed by a damage D6 weapon with no rebuttal (like ignore damage),

 

Along with every other character, other than a libby dread or Mephiston with his 5+++, though, no?  

At least he has a 4++ and one wound more than a libby?  And libbies must contend with all sorts of psychic rebuttal. 

 Additionally, there aren't too many d6 weapons in combat -and you should be minimizing the amounts of incoming shots.  

 

 

Astorath is the closest comparison for a few points less if we're talking about points and similar ability!  

 

 

For clarification, not trying to make the case that Sanguinor is amazing - as said, I've not taken him in my lists because of how i've designed things.  The captain for example offers a minor buff, has a 3+/3++ and usually damage 3 - But, I think avenging angel, the +1 to all units (and specials in them) for +41 points is great there too. But the 3++ really sells it to me.  And once I have him as my main guy, and Mephy as my back up, i try to minimise the remaining HQ points - usually a 90point chaplain.  That being said, the Chappy has been useless in my test games and last tournament (though I didnt use the proper spacing for rerolls like we've mentioned in this thread!)  Though, I may give him a try instead of Mephy.  

 

 

 Both times that I tried to daisy chain the Death Company or Sang Guard back to him I couldn't do it because the squad was so depleted from overwatch and/or reaction fire stratagems on the drop. 

 

Remember a few things -

1, you dont need to daisy chain (As above).  or

2, with DOA you are able to get a 3d6 charge, meaning you can potentially position out of range - (unless its eldar reaper fire <_< ) 

 

 

Overall, his aura is going to come down to the special weapons you've employed in your squads and how many additional units you are using to assault.  

 

 

[Panzer]

2, with DOA you are able to get a 3d6 charge, meaning you can potentially position out of range - (unless its eldar reaper fire <_< ) 

 

You can still only declare charges against units max 12“ away which is unfortunately exactly the range of such abilities. ^^

[Karhedron]

For clarification, not trying to make the case that Sanguinor is amazing - as said, I've not taken him in my lists because of how i've designed things.  The captain for example offers a minor buff, has a 3+/3++ and usually damage 3 - But, I think avenging angel, the +1 to all units (and specials in them) for +41 points is great there too. But the 3++ really sells it to me.  And once I have him as my main guy, and Mephy as my back up, i try to minimise the remaining HQ points - usually a 90point chaplain.  That being said, the Chappy has been useless in my test games and last tournament (though I didnt use the proper spacing for rerolls like we've mentioned in this thread!)  Though, I may give him a try instead of Mephy.

I have also gotten great mileage out of Captain Smash and Mephiston as my beat sticks. I also Lemartes as I run DC so he is a no-brainer upgrade over a regular Chaplain for them. I run dual Battalion normally so my last HQ is normally a cheap Lt with a storm bolter and power sword who sits back and buffs my firebase. It does mean nearly a third of my points are spent on HQs at 1500 points but they all work well with the units around them and synergy is not hard to achieve.

[Morticon]

 

2, with DOA you are able to get a 3d6 charge, meaning you can potentially position out of range - (unless its eldar reaper fire ) 

You can still only declare charges against units max 12“ away which is unfortunately exactly the range of such abilities. ^^

 

Forgot about that one, unfortunately! Good catch! 

[Diagramdude]

Just came here to say the Sanguinors buff and unleash rage are both great and they stack. I don't really see a reason to argue for one or the other when they aren't mutually exclusive!

 

The game I played this weekend I had my Death Company buffed by both unleash rage and the sanguinor. My two hammers put out ten attacks... I didn't even get to roll the power swords or chainswords. Overkill at its finest.

[Karhedron]

Just came here to say the Sanguinors buff and unleash rage are both great and they stack. I don't really see a reason to argue for one or the other when they aren't mutually exclusive!

No but they have different restrictions on activating them. The Sanguinor's aura is based on physical proximity so depends on him being able to charge alongside the unit he is buffing. That makes combining him and a unit coming in from Reserve difficult since only one can benefit from DoA. On the other hand, his ability cannot be turned off.

 

Unleash Rage is more flexible since you can cast it up to 12" from the Psyker. However it only affects one squad and can denied (or not cast in the first place due to a poor roll). Neither is better or exclusive but the differences require some consideration in list building and use.

[Xerxus]

The Sanguinor doesn't have to land the charge in order to apply his aura at full effect. You can daisychain a single model to get within 6" of the Sanguinor without losing that model's attacks.