4 devastators with Plasma Cannons: how good are they really?

[Lion's Crown]

I don't hear a lot about plasma cannons nor do I see them being used much in battle reports. It surprise me.

 

My parking lot soup: I use a squad of 7 devastators equiped with 4 plasma cannons (plus the sergeant with a plasma gun). Next to them is a team of 7 devastators equiped with 4 lascannons.

 

I put Azreal next to them (of course) as well as a lieutenant, a Dark Shroud and voilà. That's the core. If I can afford it having Ezekiel or a librarian to deny the wicth is a nice bonus against psykers armies (plus aversion and mind worm).

 

I overcharge the plasma cannons most of the game and boost them with our stratagem weapons of the dark age 1 turn out of 2 to deal with Super Heavy, Heavy, nasty HQ and Elites.

 

One predator usualy complete the spearhead detachment.

 

So far the plasma cannons have given me amazing results. Anyone else is having any success? Any other type of list to use them beside the parking lot?

[Helycon]

The thing with them, is that just playing the parking lot is boring to many people. There are many more options for plasma and most of them equally viable. At less than 15", Hellblasters are simply better bang for buck. They're also more mobile, since the weapons aren't heavy, they have more wounds for better survivability and you can split fire on them more easily with the mobility. They always have at least 5 shots in a 5 man, which isn't a whole lot less than Devs. In a 10 man, they start racking it up, and 20 shots will murder anything.

Inceptors can be targeted. They have more shots on 3 bodies, are a lot more mobile and easier to get into position. You can add even more shots if you make it a 6 man for added rage on your opponent. They delete things up to 18" range.

Black Knights are tougher to kill, especially when advancing. Speed of the Raven will make them hit on 3's still. They can be decent in melee as well and can get to objectives with ease.

 

There are just many options available for Dark Angels, and to be fair, I think Devs just aren't the best one for Plasma. Doesn't mean they're bad though!

[JJD]

The other advantage to the units described by Helycon is that they come with all the plasma you need included in the box where as Devs only come with 2 plasma cannons.

 

I appreciate its not a big deal for those with a large buts box but it is a consideration for me.

[Naaman10th]

The other advantage to the units described by Helycon is that they come with all the plasma you need included in the box where as Devs only come with 2 plasma cannons.

 

I appreciate its not a big deal for those with a large buts box but it is a consideration for me.

 

This is definitely an issue with Devs. I think it is the only kit in the SM range with that kind of problem, if you don't count special/combi weapons for veterans.

But I guess most people will have Plasma guys from the Dark Vengeance box. I myself have 3 of those, but then again they are monopose ... so I tend to not play Plasma Devs so much because of aesthetic reasons 

[Lion's Crown]

Yeah I'm a fan of the few extra shots the plasma cannons give even if hellbasters are just better overall. It make a difference when targeting something with a high toughness and a lot of wounds.

[Solrac]

Being mobile is now more of a big deal than ever which is why static squads are now less favourable.

 

The only way to even attempt to beat Dark Reaper spam at the moment is to stay out of LOS and keep moving onto objectives. This is why you see more Hellblaster/Azrael builds than anything else. It can move around, still pack a punch, very deadly in overwatch and makes good use of Auspex Scan for deep striking enemies.

 

I'm currently finishing my 3rd 10 man Hellblaster squad for an upcoming 1 day tournament to test my list for the 2 dayer coming up in April.

[Grand Master Raziel]

I tried them, found them underwhelming.  The -1 to hit if they have to move really stings.  Until I get myself a squad of Hellblasters ready to go, I prefer having Azrael accompany a couple of squads of Company Vets all toting plasma.  They're a more dynamic unit, and look cooler, with the robes and all.  Give them all chainswords, and they don't stink in assault either.

[Noneisbackhere]

Also adding a Company Ancient or even a Chapter Ancient (if you can afford) is always a must when you invest that much in Hellblasters or in a  Dev units firebase.

[G8Keeper]

I was suitably impressed with the workload they can carry, being the first "plasma" unit I used since the codex dropped, taking out T8 vehicles in one round of shooting (thank you WotDA).  Then I used Hellblasters and realised there's just a lot more tactically going for them as already mentioned.  I won't compare Black Knights and Inceptors as they're imho too different and can go places the static units can't.  

 

That being said, mine tend to be overlooked as my opponents fear dark talons and so usually make their points back easily.  Overheats can be an issue even with Azrael/Grim Resolve 

[Helycon]

I was suitably impressed with the workload they can carry, being the first "plasma" unit I used since the codex dropped, taking out T8 vehicles in one round of shooting (thank you WotDA). Then I used Hellblasters and realised there's just a lot more tactically going for them as already mentioned. I won't compare Black Knights and Inceptors as they're imho too different and can go places the static units can't.

 

That being said, mine tend to be overlooked as my opponents fear dark talons and so usually make their points back easily. Overheats can be an issue even with Azrael/Grim Resolve

That's why you have an ancient and maybe even an apothecary! You need to get into the mindset they can blow up.

[G8Keeper]

 

I was suitably impressed with the workload they can carry, being the first "plasma" unit I used since the codex dropped, taking out T8 vehicles in one round of shooting (thank you WotDA). Then I used Hellblasters and realised there's just a lot more tactically going for them as already mentioned. I won't compare Black Knights and Inceptors as they're imho too different and can go places the static units can't.

 

That being said, mine tend to be overlooked as my opponents fear dark talons and so usually make their points back easily. Overheats can be an issue even with Azrael/Grim Resolve

That's why you have an ancient and maybe even an apothecary! You need to get into the mindset they can blow up.

 

 

The Ancient (and as it happens Azrael) were eaten by a Slaaneshi DP :( - I had no idea what I was going to be facing and so packed 0 scouts into the list, also lost my head gunning forwards on turn 1 with my Crusader, it wasn't my finest hour.

[Darkangeldentist]

I have been fielding a small squad of plasma devastators (3 plasma cannons from a 5 man unit) and quite like them. Not trying to sell them as any better than other options but they represent a decent return for the investment even if the D3 shots can but somewhat unreliable. Their lack of mobility and poor scaling potential means that if you are looking to invest in a deathstar unit, there are much better alternatives. A small unit with 3-4 plasma cannons doesn't cost that much and will usually chuck out enough shots to make spending a command point easily worth it. 

 

Devastators make solid use of an ancient and apothecary, you never have to heal models because devastators only have a single wound so every successful 4+ from the apothecary is likely returning a plasma cannon to play so it can shoot next turn. It can become something of a deterrent in it's own right and although devastators are tactically inflexible because of the penalty from heavy weapons they are a relatively simple unit to use. Heavy weapon status encourages you to make use of grim resolve and the D3 shots per cannon can potentially see you annihilate enemies off the board. So they make a good opening gambit near the start of the turn before moving on to other units. Although I do agree that we have alternatives that scale better for greater investment and returns, as well as better mobility and resilience, plasma devastators fill a comfortable niche for me regarding investment vs reward. My small unit costs of 3 cannons in a 5 man unit comes to only 128pts. It packs enough punch to usually bring down a medium tank/monster or whittle down a unit of well-armoured troopers. Weapons from the Dark age ensures that multi-wound models respect my plasma. 

[march10k]

I run a similar "core," but I face enough T8 that I'm running 8 lascannons instead. Wounding on 3+ is just so good, especially with the lieutenant there to reroll ones.  4 lascannons and 4 plasma cannons is probably the better all-comers choice, but eight twinlinked lascannons rerolling ones to wound has worked well for me.  The trick is keeping them alive, especially since the only ablative wounds they carry are the two sergeants.  It's worked out for me, so far.  I try to get them into the upper floors of a ruin, with the darkshroud behind them and scouts out in front.  Even on the rare occasion that someone manages to deepstrike 9" away, it hasn't yet been anyone who doesn't have to deal with the vertical distance, so no charges yet, so far Azrael and the Lieutenant have been able to drop down to the bottom floor and preempt anything that doesn't get blown off the table with panicked point-blank lascannon fire.  Eager to see how this holds up against jetbikes, haven't faced those yet with this setup.  

[sneakybamsen]

I did field 4 plasma cannons against harlequins my last game. They did really well, think they wrecked two transports turn 1. His first turn he took them out :/

 

I'm definitely going to field them again whenever I feel like bringing something static. I had Azrael and lieutenant babysitting them. Think I might just let leave Azrael out of the equation, even though he's good for his points, I think I'd rather put those points elsewhere. Afterall it's only 1W models, and people don't burn high AP shooting on marines, so the 4++ becomes irrelevant in most games. At that point it's 180 points of charge deterrent and rerolling 2's.

[Deathwalker]

I was pondering this last night after work, and I wonder why no one has added a primaris rhino to their lists.

4D3 shots + 1 plasma gun, Overcharged with WotDA with +1 to hit on 4 of those attacks, +2 on one of them.

332 points at minimum squad size, and you can't shoot the rhino as it is a character.

[sneakybamsen]

That's in the ballpark of Azrael with devs. I'd rather bring him hands down.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Don't you also have to take the LR Excelsior if you take a rhino primaries?

[Helycon]

I was pondering this last night after work, and I wonder why no one has added a primaris rhino to their lists.

4D3 shots + 1 plasma gun, Overcharged with WotDA with +1 to hit on 4 of those attacks, +2 on one of them.

332 points at minimum squad size, and you can't shoot the rhino as it is a character.

I can't find anywhere that the Rhino Primaris is a character. Besides that, it has 10 wounds, which means it can be shot at regardless of the character rule.

[march10k]

I did field 4 plasma cannons against harlequins my last game. They did really well, think they wrecked two transports turn 1. His first turn he took them out :/

 

I'm definitely going to field them again whenever I feel like bringing something static. I had Azrael and lieutenant babysitting them. Think I might just let leave Azrael out of the equation, even though he's good for his points, I think I'd rather put those points elsewhere. Afterall it's only 1W models, and people don't burn high AP shooting on marines, so the 4++ becomes irrelevant in most games. At that point it's 180 points of charge deterrent and rerolling 2's.

I'd like to push back a little.  I agree with what you seem to be implying, which is that Azzy and Lieutenant is a lot of overhead to pay to buff 4 heavy weapons.  That's why I run 8.  But for the pushback:  People absolutely will burn high AP shooting on devastators, even if they don't bother doing it to tactical marines.  The 4++ isn't irrelevant.  And with 4D3 shots, you're likely to have 1-2 2s every turn.  And he's not just a charge deterrent.  If you put the devs on the second or higher level of a ruin, he can usually intercept any charge he doesn't deter.  Well, he and the LT.  Together, it's a pretty beefy melee capability.  Also, with Azzy, you can take those devastators on the road.  Rerollable 4+ shooting is decent enough that you don't have to die in place, you can move to get LOS or to get out of charge range.

[Deathwalker]

 

I was pondering this last night after work, and I wonder why no one has added a primaris rhino to their lists.

4D3 shots + 1 plasma gun, Overcharged with WotDA with +1 to hit on 4 of those attacks, +2 on one of them.

332 points at minimum squad size, and you can't shoot the rhino as it is a character.

I can't find anywhere that the Rhino Primaris is a character. Besides that, it has 10 wounds, which means it can be shot at regardless of the character rule.

 

Yeah, I forgot about the 10 wounds thing till this morning.

[sneakybamsen]

 

I did field 4 plasma cannons against harlequins my last game. They did really well, think they wrecked two transports turn 1. His first turn he took them out :/

 

I'm definitely going to field them again whenever I feel like bringing something static. I had Azrael and lieutenant babysitting them. Think I might just let leave Azrael out of the equation, even though he's good for his points, I think I'd rather put those points elsewhere. Afterall it's only 1W models, and people don't burn high AP shooting on marines, so the 4++ becomes irrelevant in most games. At that point it's 180 points of charge deterrent and rerolling 2's.

I'd like to push back a little.  I agree with what you seem to be implying, which is that Azzy and Lieutenant is a lot of overhead to pay to buff 4 heavy weapons.  That's why I run 8.  But for the pushback:  People absolutely will burn high AP shooting on devastators, even if they don't bother doing it to tactical marines.  The 4++ isn't irrelevant.  And with 4D3 shots, you're likely to have 1-2 2s every turn.  And he's not just a charge deterrent.  If you put the devs on the second or higher level of a ruin, he can usually intercept any charge he doesn't deter.  Well, he and the LT.  Together, it's a pretty beefy melee capability.  Also, with Azzy, you can take those devastators on the road.  Rerollable 4+ shooting is decent enough that you don't have to die in place, you can move to get LOS or to get out of charge range.

 

 

It may vary depending on meta, but where I usually play, people don't bring a lot of lascannons or plasma. My marines die to ap-1 or ap0 in droves, so the 4++ doesn't feel super relevant to me. Granted, I need to field them more than I have (they're not painted, not proud!), and you're right that they are more mobile with Azzy if they need to move, I just can't help the feeling that if they need to move, they're as good as dead to some melee threat. It seems rare to me that they need to move to have a decent target to shoot at. No doubt they sit well on the second floor of a ruin with Azrael and lieutenant below to keep them safe and shooting well, but the second floor also means they'll be going nowhere if anyone gets close, as they need to spend their entire movement going downstairs.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Speaking as a Space wolf player who uses Long Fangs (devastators) a lot, I would say that if you have a source of rerolls, mobile Plasma Cannon devastators are perfectly viable. Maybe not as reliable as good old hellblasters but have a HIGHER damage potential of up to 3 shots each, which I understand you can bump the damage to 3 using the right strategem.

 

Spare a rhino for them, and they can be a mobile firebase. they don't HAVE to expose themselves early, especially if you are not sure of getting first turn. Doesn't have to be Azrael, but if you are not going to overcharge, a normal lieutenant should be enough to make sure their wounds wound. 50% hits when moving much much better than the old snap shot when moving.

 

Typically though, I mix one or two plasma cannons in my heavy weapon squads, along with their heavier lascannon/missile launcher. Just as an emergency multishot weapon. 

[march10k]

 

 the second floor also means they'll be going nowhere if anyone gets close

 

Oh, definitely.  I don't play mine as mobile, I was just saying Azzy gives you that option.  I bunker mine and lay the protection on thick.  2x5 devs, azzy, and LT stacked in a ruin, darkshroud behind the ruin, scouts out in front.  -1 to hit, 2+/4++, and good luck with charging before turn 3.  Takes almost half of my army, but in my meta, eight twinlinked lascannons is critical.  Superheavies in about half of the armies, several T8 models in most armies, we even have a guy running three knights and backing them with two dunecrawlers ~shudder~.

[sneakybamsen]

 

 

 the second floor also means they'll be going nowhere if anyone gets close

 

Oh, definitely.  I don't play mine as mobile, I was just saying Azzy gives you that option.  I bunker mine and lay the protection on thick.  2x5 devs, azzy, and LT stacked in a ruin, darkshroud behind the ruin, scouts out in front.  -1 to hit, 2+/4++, and good luck with charging before turn 3.  Takes almost half of my army, but in my meta, eight twinlinked lascannons is critical.  Superheavies in about half of the armies, several T8 models in most armies, we even have a guy running three knights and backing them with two dunecrawlers ~shudder~.

 

 

Heh, no doubt lascannons are super important when facing that kind of lists. I'm glad I have more varied opponents than that.