toaae Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The Sanguinor really bugs me. Setting aside that the model is really old, he's supposed to be a warp manifestation or something, yet he has a jump pack like any normal marine. The Sanuinor was added in the 5th edition codex; his model is not old. And the jump pack (and wings) are because he is based on Sanguinary Guard, and all the speculation that that entails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I've often considered this, what happens when all of the other armies bring back their primarchs? Where will this put us? Personally, I believe that they will bring Sanguinius back. Not any time soon, but they've set the stage already with the Cawl/Ynarri/Robute thingy, as well as some fluff apparently some Thousand Sons Rubric marines were brought back to life. Again, this is all the game moving forward, the eventual replacement of regular marines, etc. It won't happen soon, but I'm pretty sure it will happen. $$$ would flow. The issue is though, that the Ynarri have so far only brought back the recently-dead (Guilliman), or basically used super-Biomancy to reconstruct the body of a Rubric Marine from the dust in their armour, and reattach the soul bound within the armour back to the body. Neither of these is comparable to reconstituting the soul of a Primarch 10,000 years dead, and creating a brand new body for him from nothing. Unless they pull something like with Sigmar during the End Times, and say that the Sanguinor has been the divided soul of Sanguinius all along, without its memories, or something like that, then Sanguinius basically got eaten by Daemons after his physical body died, like what happens with all souls in 40k after death. The only example we have of a soul being reconstructed occurs just a year after the physical death, and is done by Erebus basically calling in favours from the daemons to reconstitute the required soul. I wouldn't mind if we got an Ascended Sanguinor, or something like that, but I highly doubt they'll have Yvraine stand above Sanguinius' corpse, do some Warp-shenanigans, and bring him back to life. Necromancy just doesn't work that way in 40k. Without the soul, you've just got a zombie, and the souls get eaten fast, especially if you got killed by Horus. Even the spirit-stones of the Eldar aren't foolproof in preserving souls. brother_b 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwalker Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 NO CAPES!!! To bring back Sanguinius would turn 10, 000 years of noble sacrifice into a bad joke :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The Yvraine/Guillimam/Cawl thing is no argument. They helped bringing back Guilliman not because they are good guys. They did it so the IoM gets its :cuss together and get strong enough to stand between them andas chaos/tyranids/necrons. Simply the lesser evil for the Eldar race. They achieved that goal and have no reason to help bringing back yet another Primarch. Also if it were possible for them to bring back Sanguinius like that they probably would've done that instead of Guilliman since their goal was to give the IoM a figure of hope and I dare say Sanguinius fits better than Guilliman there. About the Rubric event. It wasn't something like super biomancy and re-attaching the soul. They basically reverted the time for this particular Rubric Marine to before the ritual happened to confuse Ahriman and make him bring them back from outside of the webway. If they hadn't shown Ahriman a glimpse of hope for his goal back there, he would've put an end to the Ynnead cult before it even really started and Guilliman would've stayed dead/in stasis. Classic Eldar trickery. NO CAPES!!! To bring back Sanguinius would turn 10, 000 years of noble sacrifice into a bad joke :( No, it wouldn't. That's discussed to death multiple times already tho and is not the point of this thread. Silverson 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 It's literally listed as one of three potential options to compensate in the original post, though? Also, regarding the Rubric Marine, Yvraine's power is over souls and death. The phrase used is "reversed the cycles of their existence", but I more interpreted that as "brought back to life instead" rather than "literally rewound time". I do definitely agree though that the Ynnari don't have any motive for bringing Sanguinius back. They needed Guilliman to revitalise the Imperium enough to make it a threat to Abaddon and take his focus off the Eldar, nothing more. They're still playing the long con. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Reversing their cycle of existence is basically rewinding time tho. It also gets supported by the Rubric not knowing where they are and addressing Ahriman with his old HH title iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread05 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The Sanguinor really bugs me. Setting aside that the model is really old, he's supposed to be a warp manifestation or something, yet he has a jump pack like any normal marine. The Sanuinor was added in the 5th edition codex; his model is not old. And the jump pack (and wings) are because he is based on Sanguinary Guard, and all the speculation that that entails. Everything in finecast looks old to me, I started last year. He IS based on the sanguinary guard, but his model looks kinda smaller than the guards themselves I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) The Yvraine/Guillimam/Cawl thing is no argument. They helped bringing back Guilliman not because they are good guys. They did it so the IoM gets its together and get strong enough to stand between them andas chaos/tyranids/necrons. Simply the lesser evil for the Eldar race. Based on the facts presented in Gathering Storm, I would agree. However in "Hand of Darkness", Yvraine actively continues to help Guilliman by retriveing the Hand for him from Mortarion. This is despite the Seers of the Black Library offering to destroy it and the Visarch actively challenging her about the decision. I am not arguing the Eldar are the good guys (although "good" is very much a matter of perspective) but Yvraine at least seems to have taken a longer term interest in Guilliman and the Imperium's survival. The motives remain the same (use the IoM and a shield against the other threats of the Galaxy) but it suggests that Guilliman's resurrection was not a one-off act and that some of the Eldar at least are willing to take continued action to prop up the Imperium. Plus I think the whole shipping thing is just funny. https://wharfendale.deviantart.com/art/Roboute-Guilliman-and-Yvraine-686018003 Edited March 26, 2018 by Karhedronuk Panzer and Majkhel 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornithologist Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Fluff wise, remember that Sanquinius' body has been laid to rest in the main chapel of the Blood Angels Fortress Monastery. So weird resurrection shenanigans are possible, if GW wants to go that direction. I am staying in the middle of this one. I both want to be able to play the Primarch, because it would be hopefully both fun and cool. And I know it would wreck just about anything resembling the fluff for the army. ... Just let me have my cake and eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Keep dead characters dead. If anyone can be resurrected at any time, then no death in the setting has any meaning. If they want to redesign the Sanguinor as essentially the "Avatar" of Sanguinius, then fine, as long as it's not Sanguinius himself. Too much of the BA's identity is tied up in his death to just handwave away. Slave to Darkness 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) Agreed. Guilliman wasn’t actually dead so his return is ok in my book, but resurrecting Sangy or Ferrus shouldn’t happen just as much as resurrecting Horus shouldn’t happen. That being said, I completely wouldn’t mind the sanguinor had a stat line that was closer to mephy... Edited March 26, 2018 by Paladin777 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread05 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Agreed. Guilliman wasn’t actually dead so his return is ok in my book, but resurrecting Sangy or Ferrus shouldn’t happen just as much as resurrecting Horus shouldn’t happen. Exactly this. I cant see Sanguinius being alive without Horus coming back to life also. As fas as we know, Horus had "his essence burned from existence in both the physical world and the Immaterium" and has been replaced by Abbadon in all but name. And since Abaddon is described on par with the demon primarchs, if not stronger, I dont see any reason for BA to not have a primarch-strong individual, without Sangunius being ressurected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Agreed. Guilliman wasn’t actually dead so his return is ok in my book, but resurrecting Sangy or Ferrus shouldn’t happen just as much as resurrecting Horus shouldn’t happen. Exactly this. I cant see Sanguinius being alive without Horus coming back to life also. As fas as we know, Horus had "his essence burned from existence in both the physical world and the Immaterium" and has been replaced by Abbadon in all but name. And since Abaddon is described on par with the demon primarchs, if not stronger, I dont see any reason for BA to not have a primarch-strong individual, without Sangunius being ressurected. There is beautiful synergy to an Abaddon vs Dante eternal struggle as an echo of Horus vs Sanguinius. I especially love the contrasting ideals of Abaddon surpassing Horus' capabilities, thinking Horus was a weak fool while Dante does not think himself worthy of anything, let alone being "the golden warrior who saves the Emperor" (he toys with himself on the idea, knowing its a pipe dream, but an old man needs a pipe dream to put on his slippers each morning)...and then Sanguinius himself appears in a hallucination/dream/vision at the end of Devastation of Baal being like "you are the most worthy of all my sons...attaboy!" ... Sea-People 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tychobi Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Sanguinor just needs a badass update. Not quite to primarch status but befitting an angelic manifestation not a marine capt with an alt aura. Sanguinious should stay dead imho Sea-People 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread05 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Sanguinor just needs a badass update. Not quite to primarch status but befitting an angelic manifestation not a marine capt with an alt aura. Sanguinious should stay dead imho And getting rid of his jump pack :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raziel69r Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Girlyman and Bellend cawl take that last sanguine feather Dante has in stasis and makes a clone... job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The Sanguinor really bugs me. Setting aside that the model is really old, he's supposed to be a warp manifestation or something, yet he has a jump pack like any normal marine. The Sanuinor was added in the 5th edition codex; his model is not old. And the jump pack (and wings) are because he is based on Sanguinary Guard, and all the speculation that that entails. Everything in finecast looks old to me, I started last year. He IS based on the sanguinary guard, but his model looks kinda smaller than the guards themselves I think. The Guard were added at the same time. Prior to the 5th edition codex, we didn't have a special honor guard unit. We had a unit called honor guard, but they were the same as codex marines command squads, and our codex said Dante' s honor guard were painted gold. I don't think that was a fluff choice, just that the studio or heavy metal painter thought it would look cool if they matched Dante. Taking the jump pack away from the Sanguinor would move him too close to being a daemon in my book. At least with the pack and marine-size stature, he still resembles a Blood Angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerxus Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The Sanguinor model is halfway between a fancy chapter champion and an actual angel, I would love to buy an updated and upsized model leaning more towards the angelic aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendent Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 The Sanguinor model is halfway between a fancy chapter champion and an actual angel, I would love to buy an updated and upsized model leaning more towards the angelic aspect. A new model that looked half as good as the new Celestine would be an instant buy for me. Probably even a preorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread05 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) "White wings spread wide, the Sanguinor swept through the Tyranids' midst. With the eyes of the Death Company upon him, the Sanguinor beat his wings several times, rising once more above the monstrous swarm". This is from the Cryptus campaign. The way I read this, his wings are actual wings, i.e. he can move them at will. The wings on the guards are there just to resemble the wings of Sanguinius. I personally beleive that the Sanguinor is a warp manifestation, a demon of the emperor if you will (or an angel for that matter), and thus he doesnt need a jump pack. Our opinions can differ of course . There are so many conflicting sources in 40k, and dont forget, everything we read is canon, but not everything we read is true ^^. Edited March 26, 2018 by dread05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Yeah a Sanguinor with an updated model on the level of the other centerpiece models GW likes to release ever since AoS and updated rules to make him as badass as in the fluff would be the best. Pendent and Sea-People 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indefragable Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 @dread05 is your gripe with the Sanguinor's jump pack have to do with the model? The fluff? The game mechanic? I would definitely not want a footslogging Sanguinor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spagunk Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Though the sanguinor model isn't THAT old, one that is dynamic or aggressive would be welcomed. I like the idea of using that one Lord celestial guy from AoS as it's both dynamic and regal. It's a big investment but I definitely thought about a nice sanguinor kitbash/conversion from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dread05 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) The fluff only. He has functional angelic wings which he uses to fly. Imo he doesnt need a jump pack also. Edited March 26, 2018 by dread05 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Do we know that for sure? Or does he actually need the jump pack? I haven’t read any of the black library books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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