Deathwatch next up with Harlequins and Imperial Knights

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I think it's likely due to the entire lack of new models (they would be showing them at adeptocin like the knight if we did) that we are either going to have to rely on fw in order to run powerful stand alone lists unless we get a points reduction or if they give primaris access to our transports or we are going to have the same issue we do now with mixed kill teams in a bigger way.

[TheSauce]

I'm looking forward to the stratagem options. I can see them adding army-wide deep strike like in 7th edition. It will probably be something like what GK and Custodes have, where you have to trade CP to deep strike additional units, but it will be a welcome addition to DW, and will get around having to transport our mixed units in Rhinos or Drop pods.

[Boyadventurer]

The deep strike stratagem is pretty much mandatory -- if there is only one buff DW can get in the codex, I think that would be the biggest boost.

With Primaris being brought further into the DW fold, I'd really love to see us getting the options for the Dark Imperium characters (if GW are officially promoting kitbashing NDK characters and chopping up Tau guns to make melee weapons, they need to understand that most of us are capable of cutting off a shoulder pad and replacing it... That said, I wouldn't be surprised if lieutenants are excluded -- rerolling 1s when you can always take 2+ to wound non vehicles might be a deal breaker.

[Mr4Minutes]

I’m probably in the minority, but I’m disappointed/skeptical about the primaris additions. I’ve been waiting to start this army the last two years, but kept holding off with all the up and down changes the army has gone through.

 

I think more time was probably spent figuring out how to stick the new shiny models in there then making sure the existing line is functionally competitive.

 

But, that’s all based on the little info we’ve actually heard, so here’s hoping at least some of the various problems discussed here over the last 8 months or so have been addressed!

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I think allot of us are worried about is with mixed squads and what will that do to our transport ability.

 

If we are lucky though we could get army wide special issue ammo on all bolt weapons.

Suddenly aggressors are just horrible to face.

[Prot]

As someone who plays in a semi-competitive environment, I'm worried it will be another fluff dex. My 'dream' scenario would be a codex very similar to Custodes in function.

 

So I skipped Custodes when they came out because I thought, 'Aha GW, after Deathwatch, and Grey Knights, you will not fool me a third time with a dysfunctional elite army'. Sure Custodes aren't superduper competitive but I don't care, they are good enough to have a lot of fun with. So I bought into them, painted many and love playing them.

 

So I know GW can do it... they can balance them. But if they become ridiculously over pointed, with wonky, nearly useless options, I fear I will skip them all together again. I don't want to. I have just about every model in existence... I even bought the Watchblade Box set 2 Christmas' ago! No one bought that thing... the formation was horrible.

 

Still that's one army with so much character, so much fun, and in my opinion and wildly missed opportunity so far. I try pulling them out every once in a while I like to trick myself into believing I can make them work, but even with Primaris they will be second fiddle to generic Astartes.

 

With xenos doing so well in the competitive arena (I mean pretty much winning almost everything since the original Guilliman list nerf), it would make perfect sense to have Deathwatch level that playing field a little bit. Here's hoping...

[Moostick]

The success of Custodes is pretty straightforward: they're hard to kill. With T5, 4++ and 3W, they can't be moved easily.

 

Unfortunately, with GK and DW, this wouldn't make sense as they are supposed to still be regular marines, but just more well trained or experienced.

 

If they give our Vets 2 W, we would go leaps and bounds, but then that would likely be too much. On the other hand, if they merely lower us to 16 pts with nothing else, then pretty much nothing happened and it won't fix us at all. It's a hard balance to achieve with MEQs while still meshing with the existing game.

 

My expectations are pretty low this time around, but hopefully we at least get an average buff (but knowing GW, they'll nerf us just because).

[Prot]

The success of Custodes is pretty straightforward: they're hard to kill. With T5, 4++ and 3W, they can't be moved easily.

 

Unfortunately, with GK and DW, this wouldn't make sense as they are supposed to still be regular marines, but just more well trained or experienced.

 

If they give our Vets 2 W, we would go leaps and bounds, but then that would likely be too much. On the other hand, if they merely lower us to 16 pts with nothing else, then pretty much nothing happened and it won't fix us at all. It's a hard balance to achieve with MEQs while still meshing with the existing game.

 

My expectations are pretty low this time around, but hopefully we at least get an average buff (but knowing GW, they'll nerf us just because).

 

Maybe I should be more clear here... I'm not implying in the least that I think Deathwatch should mimic Custodes in ability... but perhaps in execution and -effort- in writing a half decent codex!

 

I really believe with effort the codex can work... as a functional Imperial force that does not necessarily have to ally to be functional. Custodes are very much what I think Deathwatch should aim for; they work as a solo force, and of course are enhanced by allying with other Imperium. In every day games I was shocked to find Custodes can hold their own, while suffering from some things that all elite armies do.

 

I personally believe this is a goal GW could strive for with Deathwatch. It doesn't have to be ITC amazing to satisfy a great deal of us... it just can't be the medicore pile it has been since inception.

 

The guns have to change... nearly all of the special type of weaponry needs a tweak. The "deathwatch" feel is very diminished to me now... it needs to be rediscovered appropriately for 8th. And for the love of the Emperor give us a unique Psyker power set that knows how to get in the mind of the heinous Xenos (the model even exists!)

 

Even the Corvus is due for an overhaul. If they did it to any reasonable level I think most of us would come running.

 

All I'm saying is this time I'm not going to be the same 'sucker' I was buying the Black Fortress edition (man that was a beautiful set though) and buying dice, and all the limited stuff without being a lot more understanding of the rules. 

[Moostick]

I understood that; was just discussing what makes an elite army like Custodes work, which is durability and decent firepower. I disagree that we shouldn't be moving towards Custodes; we definitely should if they want us as an elite army. Otherwise give that up, and bring us down to SM level in costs. In any kind of game, the best builds are always one of two things: Being a tank, or being a glass cannon. DW is neither, and probably can't even qualify as a hybrid; we're stuck in some sort of twilight zone of trying to be in the elite category with average stats. We're like a college team with a low budget trying to play in the professional league.

 

The existence of SM, and us being an extension of them, hinders what they can do with us in both durability and firepower. Until they decide to stop treating us like we're SM, we can't function as an elite army (from both a stat and point cost angle). The only ways I can see us working as an army is giving our stats a complete overhaul. Either lower our stats and costs down to SM levels (essentially another special Chapter like BA/DA/SW), or separate us completely from SM and give us a buff to semi-elite stats. Alternatively, keep our stats the same and give us firepower for cheap.

 

Main thing is that they need to stop tying us to SM. They are not elite, and we can't be elite either if we follow the trend of SM stats and point costs.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Moostick

[Matt_149]

If it's pants at least I have a 2k army to use in kill team :)

[Prot]

That’s true. I don’t have 2 k painted anymore but I could make a little project out of that idea.

[Vel'Cona]

If it's pants at least I have a 2k army to use in kill team

 

Has they're been a totally garbage codex released since 8th landed?  I can't think of one that's completely useless offhand . . .

[Boyadventurer]

 

If it's pants at least I have a 2k army to use in kill team

 

Has they're been a totally garbage codex released since 8th landed?  I can't think of one that's completely useless offhand . . .

 

No one has been singing the praises for the GK codex that's for sure...

[Matt_149]

 

 

If it's pants at least I have a 2k army to use in kill team

Has they're been a totally garbage codex released since 8th landed? I can't think of one that's completely useless offhand . . .

No but, through my own fault, I modeled my dw to the rule of cool so I imagine there will be some loadouts that don't work/inefficient soon. But they look cool and if I can find another way to use them I'll be happy

[Moostick]

 

 

 

 

If it's pants at least I have a 2k army to use in kill team

Has they're been a totally garbage codex released since 8th landed? I can't think of one that's completely useless offhand . . .

No one has been singing the praises for the GK codex that's for sure...

They're the most similar to us too. Either we follow in their footsteps and continue as trash, or we use their dead bodies to rise towards DG/Custodes levels.

[Matt_149]

Amen^

[Mr4Minutes]

You’re not the only one who got the Xmas box set Prot, mines been collecting dust on the floor for years! I’ve been wanting to start building them, but GW has been so inconsistent with DeathWatch, I have no idea what to do with them.

 

I’m hoping the codex brings the DW uniqueness out, and makes all their special weapons options viable, but the track record for DW so far isn’t there.

 

What I’m hoping it’s not, but what I think it will be, is another way for GW to sell primaris models. The actual DeathWatch model line will be mostly unchanged, but they’ll be able to take Reivers etc.

 

I know a lot of DW fans like to include primaris marines, but I’m not a fan of them outside of SM chapter armies.

[Azaiel]

I bet there will be a Primaris DW update set, maybe even a "unique" Primaris Deathwatch lieutenant. Same as the ones DA and BA got.

[Aothaine]

I would love for the dex to be focused on kill teams again. Build a kill team and give it tons of buffs. Allow the deep strike for 1 cp so you can drop your kill teams in the exact position you need them to be in. 

 

But I'd like certain kill team compositions to have special buffs. I'm really hoping for this codex. But I am not going to fan boy on them like I did last year until I get the codex and review it. 

 

Ended up spending like $200 on the collector's edition codex and box to find out it was obsolete like 4 months later. :/ It is still a really cool book and box. But I'm contemplating trying to sell it. Doubt I'll make my money back though. Ahh well.. we'll see.