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Hey there, just finished recently this novella and I found it quite curious:

 

It made me like the Lion quite much more than I ever had, despite the confrontation with Russ.

 

The Lion did save Russ's ass since he deleted all records of the Wulfen and took the secret to his grave, never playing Russ on it.

 

I assume Russ would have been a younger version of himself, because he's portrayed like a hot head that makes not much sense.

 

I did enjoy the Russ that tells the tale, older and weathered whilst mourning his lost brother-enemy.

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Yep, I find the novel paints a good picture of the Lion. The fight aside, which is as much Russ fault as Lion's fault, it shows the complexity of both primarchs and unlike most HH novels, leaves me liking both of them very much, giving much more depth.

 

By the way, Lion isn't dead yet. :) He's just hibernating in the Rock. But yeah, for all of Lion's schizophrenia and somewhat twisted sense of knightly honor, he never called out exposed the secret of the Wulfen.

 

Why is a very good question and one I would like to debate.

 

A) Assuming the Lion is just obsessed/focused with the Emperor's end goal of conquering the galaxy, he probably thinks it isn't good for the Crusade if the Space Wolves and Russ were censured and the Crusade loses another legion like it already has lost 2. Maybe to his eyes, as a long as a Legion continues to kill and conquer, genetic deviancies doesn't matter so much. In other words, he is being "practical" in his view of the Legions, genetics aside.

 

true during the fight, Lion was saying he never saw the point of Russ and his legion, but I think that was in the heat of the moment, he probably didn't mean it. Before the brawl, he did sorta acknowledge and respect the Wolves way of fighting and made sure his dark Angels stayed out of the way to let the Wolves do what they do best.

 

B) As big of a git that he is, maybe he does value his brothers, and like Russ, after the censure and erasure of two legions, he doesn't want to lose another brother.  As inhuman as the primarchs are, they've clearly demonstrated the ability to care for one another, like the most tragic relationship between Fulgrim and Ferrus. like when Lorgar was facing censure, both Magnus and Russ spoke against purely due to familial brotherhood, not practically of losing a legion.

 

C) Unlikely, but another odd thought that occurred to me was that the Lion spent most of his childhood fighting/evading chaos beasts, and continued to do so when he was a knight of the order. So when he saw the wulfen images, somehow despite the damning image, he knew instantly that it wasn't chaos, or even corruption, maybe something the Emperor intended all along.

 

this was somewhat validified 10,000 years later after Warzone Fenris when the Inquisition and the Grey Knights somehow declared afterwards that the Wolves and the Wulfen were not chaos corrupted.

 

Back to the novel, my favorite part was the last part in the flashback at the Imperial palace after the siege. I nearly cried when ...

 

 

..... Russ bared his hearts to Lion, almost begging in a semi-suicidal way, for Lion in a semi-murderous way, to kill him.

 

After which it looks like Russ and Lion, if not their legions, managed to patch things up.

 

I really enjoyed this too. Decent portrayal of both Russ and the Lion and interesting to see the dynamics between them, both before and after the duel.

 

Both sides came away looking compelling, realistic and impressive, no easy feat for the author.

 

:-)

I think you're spot on, the two points I think incredibly relevant from your argument being:

 

- For all his lack of social skills the Lion cares. He's like a guy with aspbergers, not being able to show it doesn't mean he didn't care. It made me like him a lot since I have a friend with a similar profile.

 

Great point on the wulfen too, hadn't thought about it myself, that the Lion has a built in chaos taint detector and recognized that mutation as an ally rather than a foe.

One of my favorite books of the HH series. I especially like that we see the progression from hothead, pre HH Russ, to the more wise Russ after the HH is over, and it also ties in nicely with the soul searching in "Wolf King".

 

I really like that Russ and the Lion had a catharsis after the siege that removed the bad blood between them. The whole part of the aftermath of the siege and how Russ and the Lion handles the frustration of their failure to reach Terra is really well written. For me the last chapters of Russ and the Lion and Haldor after Russ have told his story, are my favorite in the book.

 

My personal highpoint in the book is where Russ have his epiphany about his role in life  :thumbsup:

Leman meets the Wanderer (big E) in a dream:
'Now is the time Leman of the Russ,' the the Wanderer said in the

voice that was both young and old, masculine and feminine, always

soft, suffused with patina of epochal sadness.
'What time?' he answered, coming to a halt.
The wanderer turned, looking out into the the highlands of Asaheim,

where the peaks marched under a crystal sky, eternal and inviolate. 'For

you to do what you were made for. Or let your grief end you. Your choice.'
Russ didn't understand. 'I was made to protect you,' he said.
'No. You were always wrong about that. You were made to protect

what I created.'

 

This moment always make me laugh :biggrin.:

Jarl Jorin have a small talk with Iron Priest Kloja:
'So tell me', said Jorin, 'ever fought beside the First Legion?''
'No. Not the dark Angels. I'd like to. Good colours'.
Jorin turned to him. 'Seriously?'
'Black plate. Very nice. They look like killers'
Jorin didn't say anything for a while, then turned away. 'You are strange, priest'

I love this novel for many reasons that people listed. The thing that stands out to me is how Russ has matured like the SWs do, although much slower. He seems to be between how a Grey Hunter and a Wolf Guard act. I really hope this proves true and Russ does return much less hot headed and more cunning.

 

I don't understand the Iron Priest thing though. Iron Priests were and still aren't black. The Speaker of the Dead (Wolf Priest) though wore black armor back then.

I love this novel for many reasons that people listed. The thing that stands out to me is how Russ has matured like the SWs do, although much slower. He seems to be between how a Grey Hunter and a Wolf Guard act. I really hope this proves true and Russ does return much less hot headed and more cunning.

 

I don't understand the Iron Priest thing though. Iron Priests were and still aren't black. The Speaker of the Dead (Wolf Priest) though wore black armor back then.

you have to go back at the novel prospero burns to get the colour jab. Red sails meant murder and black sails showed ill-intent and death... or somewhere along those lines. Since the 1st legion original plate colours were both black with red icons

 

I love this novel for many reasons that people listed. The thing that stands out to me is how Russ has matured like the SWs do, although much slower. He seems to be between how a Grey Hunter and a Wolf Guard act. I really hope this proves true and Russ does return much less hot headed and more cunning.

 

I don't understand the Iron Priest thing though. Iron Priests were and still aren't black. The Speaker of the Dead (Wolf Priest) though wore black armor back then.

you have to go back at the novel prospero burns to get the colour jab. Red sails meant murder and black sails showed ill-intent and death... or somewhere along those lines. Since the 1st legion original plate colours were both black with red icons

 

 

Wow. From a Fenrisian perspective, the Dark Angels are forever an omen of death and murder based on colors alone. No wonder the Iron Priest said good colors.

 

Then again, too many legions back then were either black (DA, Iron Hands, Raven Guard) or grey (Wolves, Word Bearers, Iron Wariors etc.).  Wonder what the Wolves thought of the IH and RG. IH probably respect, RG probably disdain due to sneaky MO. 

 

Hidden Content

Yep, I find the novel paints a good picture of the Lion. The fight aside, which is as much Russ fault as Lion's fault, it shows the complexity of both primarchs and unlike most HH novels, leaves me liking both of them very much, giving much more depth.

 

By the way, Lion isn't dead yet. :smile.: He's just hibernating in the Rock. But yeah, for all of Lion's schizophrenia and somewhat twisted sense of knightly honor, he never called out exposed the secret of the Wulfen.

 

Why is a very good question and one I would like to debate.

 

A) Assuming the Lion is just obsessed/focused with the Emperor's end goal of conquering the galaxy, he probably thinks it isn't good for the Crusade if the Space Wolves and Russ were censured and the Crusade loses another legion like it already has lost 2. Maybe to his eyes, as a long as a Legion continues to kill and conquer, genetic deviancies doesn't matter so much. In other words, he is being "practical" in his view of the Legions, genetics aside.

 

true during the fight, Lion was saying he never saw the point of Russ and his legion, but I think that was in the heat of the moment, he probably didn't mean it. Before the brawl, he did sorta acknowledge and respect the Wolves way of fighting and made sure his dark Angels stayed out of the way to let the Wolves do what they do best.

 

:cool.: As big of a git that he is, maybe he does value his brothers, and like Russ, after the censure and erasure of two legions, he doesn't want to lose another brother.  As inhuman as the primarchs are, they've clearly demonstrated the ability to care for one another, like the most tragic relationship between Fulgrim and Ferrus. like when Lorgar was facing censure, both Magnus and Russ spoke against purely due to familial brotherhood, not practically of losing a legion.

 

C) Unlikely, but another odd thought that occurred to me was that the Lion spent most of his childhood fighting/evading chaos beasts, and continued to do so when he was a knight of the order. So when he saw the wulfen images, somehow despite the damning image, he knew instantly that it wasn't chaos, or even corruption, maybe something the Emperor intended all along.

 

this was somewhat validified 10,000 years later after Warzone Fenris when the Inquisition and the Grey Knights somehow declared afterwards that the Wolves and the Wulfen were not chaos corrupted.

 

Back to the novel, my favorite part was the last part in the flashback at the Imperial palace after the siege. I nearly cried when ...

 

 

..... Russ bared his hearts to Lion, almost begging in a semi-suicidal way, for Lion in a semi-murderous way, to kill him.

 

After which it looks like Russ and Lion, if not their legions, managed to patch things up.

 

 

 

I would say it's the second best of the Primarch novels so far (Fulgrim is #1, in my humble opinion for what it does to that character and the III Legion). I liked it quite a bit.

 

As others have pointed out, it's the contrast with the Lion (and what a depiction of him!) that really brings it all together. Much like how Batman is so often defined by the villians he goes after, so it was a great choice to help define Russ by showing the Lion as his foil in so many ways.

 

To your point, @Kasper_Hawser, I like to think what would have happened if their roles were reversed. Let's say that Luther had rebelled during the Great Crusade instead of at the tail end of the HH and some of the Fallen showed themselves during the Siege of Dulan....and Russ finds out about it. Do any of us think that Russ would have kept that hidden?

 

...yet the Lion keeps a secret that could easily damn the VI Legion and his brother without a second thought. Without being asked. And that, I think shows the sort of character the Lion is deep down inside. "Loyalty is its own reward." Why the Lion will never be a traitor, despite all the memes in the world.

 

Slight aside on the Lion

Hidden Content

This is my favorite depiction of Lion El'Jonson so far, because it hints at the idea of him being The First. I think the comparison between the Lion and Horus don't get as much light as they should in that regard. I've always thought that the Lion was meant to be the Emperor's Second In Command, but due to how the chips fell when Chaos scattered the Primarchs, that was not to be. Horus got the attention early and often and had just the right gifts (nature or nurture?) to rise to the occasion, while the Lion perpetually felt heldback, overlooked. The "Fredo Effect," if you will (referencing The Godfather).  This novella also talks about how the Lion is charasmatic in the courtrooms and knows how to gain and wield the favor of Malcador and the powers-that-be on Terra...which is the first time we really hear that. It makes perfect sense though: we all have had that co-worker who is all business all the time and knows how to get things done in the boardroom, but no one wants to get a drink with. I feel like that charisma is always held back, reserved...the Lion feels "what's the point? Horus is clearly the favored one." There's the competitive type who will never ever stop trying and then there's the competitive type who is so competitive they won't even bother competing.

 

All this ties in with this novella because--to me--it hints that the Lion has a big brother outlook towards the rest of the Primarchs. Just like an oldest sibling will knock the snot out of his/her brothers and sisters, but will never ever tell mom and dad...so the Lion treats Russ.

 

And to me, that is what Russ really means when he says he was "beaten." That he realizes that had the roles been reversed, he probably would have not been able to see the bigger picture and would have gladly went for the deep blow against a foe that had slighted him...

which makes that ending that much more impactful, because he realizes that the Lion has the right to be angry at Russ, when the Lion of his own volition protected Russ's Legion and never expected to be thanked for it
.

 

I also thought the fight was well done: the brawling, grab-anything-within-reach ball of rage that is Russ and the measured, unyielding knight that is the Lion. Until, at least, Russ was able to bait, bark, and beat the Lion into letting his guard down and giving in to a true brotherly scrap. In that sense, I think Russ won the immediate fight though to my point above, the Lion "won" the bigger picture fight for honor.

 

Thanks to @b1soul in another thread for this quote, which is my abosolute favorite thing about the Lion thus depicted so far:

'Now tell me, agent of the Emperor,' he said, 'for I truly wish to know - what would you have done, if Dulanian ships had come to Caliban and made such demands as you have made?'

The Lion remained impassive. His sword remained sheathed. 'I have heard that question posed from rulers of a dozen worlds. And to them all, I give the same answer - it matters not. You did not come to us, we came to you. Fate has given you the only answer you will ever receive.'

Edited by Indefragable

I just finished reading this on a plane ride home today.

 

I got the impression the lion was treating it as an honor duel and pulled up after disarming the wolf.

 

It only became a brawl in favor of the wolf because the lion dropped his guard for a split second.

 

I greatly enjoyed seeing events from both sides and how our primarch eventually came to believe that playing the role of the barbaric legion was hurting our future

Off topic a bit....

 

@ Indefragable - The Fulgrim movel was good? I was actually going to pick up Magnus after this, just to see what other muck ups he did along the way that alienated the Thousand Sons.

 

Between Magnus, Perturabo, Lorgar and Fulgrim, if I were to pick a traitor primarch novel, which is the best written? 

 

Actually is the Guilliman one any good?

 

 

Back to topic...

 

@ Tigurius x - In the end, it was a monumental cultural misunderstanding that had Russ laughing in the end. Unfortunately he was the only one who got the joke and poor Lion left the "so caleld duel" in sour spirits, unable to comprehend his brother who in one rare moment, turned out more insightful than anyone else and got sucker punched for it.

 

Strange that after that incident, the wolves saga still recount that Russ is undefeated even though Lion clearly left him unconscious. Oh well, nobody really won that fight anyway, and as it turns out, the Legions and Chapters subsequently themselves are perfectly capable of misinterpreting the whole deal.

 

The novel makes me wanna strangle Jorrin Bloodhowl though. To me, he was a plot device just there to muck up the wolves in the face of their cousins. For all his talk about kinship with Russ, he kept a damn key information from Russ and held on to the secret until it was bloody too late. Bloody hell, pardon the pun. I hope he died later, which is why we only saw Bulveye later.

 

Then again, Bulveye also turned out to be a troll but at least that story was well written. and paints the reality of the Great Crusade, join us or die.

Off topic a bit....

 

@ Indefragable - The Fulgrim movel was good? I was actually going to pick up Magnus after this, just to see what other muck ups he did along the way that alienated the Thousand Sons.

 

Between Magnus, Perturabo, Lorgar and Fulgrim, if I were to pick a traitor primarch novel, which is the best written? 

 

Actually is the Guilliman one any good?

 

 

Hidden Content

IMHO, I think Fulgrim is the best of the Primarch novels so far. Makes you mourn the fact that not only he went traitor, but he went full on hedonistic deamon prince that is so lost he can't tie his own shoe laces anymore. That's sayin' something!  Pretty much everything the HH should be: showing you the magnitude of what could have been.

 

In order of my own preference, 1. Fulgrim 2. Lorgar or Perturabo (Pert's ending is amazing, but the novel itself --to me--was not quite as good as others think so, but it has a good reputation.  Have not gotten to Magnus yet.

 

Guilliman is a hard pass, unless you are gonig for completeness (which I am...only reason I read it). I actively had to force myself to get through it. Pointless bolter porn extraordinaire with lines like "Guilliman swung his sword with the force of absolute reason to slay the Ork, a creature of anarchy." .....golly gee?

Yeh you know it's a good book when it makes us understand better and love our most hated and close brothers.

 

Have to admit it's getting old seeing how "tragic" the fallen primarchs are. Now in 40K, I want to see one or two of them either redeemed or receive a PERMANENT death.

 

Sadly if that happens, the mirror should happen to the loyalist as well due to GW being ridiculously grimdark to the point of grimderp, and I REALLY don't want Russ to be the corrupted one by becoming Super Underworld Michael/Warcraft Wurgen in 40K Space.

 

Then again, the Warcraft Wurgen uniquely among most werewolf creations, retain their minds and can still speak normally in werewolf form. ....... NOPE! Still don't want wulfen Russ.

Have to admit it's getting old seeing how "tragic" the fallen primarchs are. Now in 40K, I want to see one or two of them either redeemed or receive a PERMANENT death.

 

I quite like the fact that while it may appear tragic from the loyalist PoV, Fulgrim clearly embraces it to the point that he is no longer really capable of realising what he has lost. I don't want to see my villains weeping in the dark and lamenting their fate, especially not a follower of Slaanesh.

 

Just as long as they do not do this....

 

http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/galleries/2011/Review_MBDarthVaderThankTheMaker/Review_MBDarthVaderThankTheMaker_stillA.JPG

 

... then it is fine.

Edited by Karhedronuk

Even though I liked Fulgrim very much (It's one of my top three primarch books), it was still the same old Fulgrim. It's the story that carries that book in my opinion even if it's a bit predictable here and there. The attention to detail with relation to the lore and earlier depictions of the EC is also really nice. Fulgrim on the other hand is just the same narcissistic showman that we all know and love, he doesn't have any character arc to speak of in this novel.

 

In contrast, in The Great Wolf, we see a different Russ than we have seen before in the HH. From the full of energy, brash, hot headed leader in GC, we see him devastated after the siege, near suicidal with grief, and later the older, wiser and weathered wolf that misses his old brothers and comrades. Reading Wolf King before you start with this one also really enhances the understanding why both Russ and the Legion changes during the HH. I'm really glad Chris Wraight wrote this book so he could continue on the things he started in Wolf King.

 

For me, that among other things, is what makes this novel my favorite in the series so far (I have high hopes for Jaghatai Khan, just waiting for BL to ship it)

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