Frostglaive Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Forgebane released yesterday. By now I'm sure a fair amount of us picked up a box or ten (I currently only own one. Hopefully another later this week or in May). Plenty of time to have our Armiger Warglaives assembled, painted up and fielded in a game or twenty, right? So what are everyone's thoughts so far? Me personally, I love them aesthetically. They are gorgeous looking models. I like the options for different faces (cyclops face is my favorite) and I'm happy the shoulder pads are in the cog-style, befitting the AdMech look for the boxed game. Gameplay, I've only got to run one and only in a game. But he didn't do too bad. Definitely pricey points-wise, but he put out a reasonable amount of damage for what he can do. Granted, he didn't have too many threats against him other than an actual knight, but he did good. Still need more time and games under my belt before I'm 100% convinced on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I tried them out today. I had an Atrapos and two Armigers. I rolled well above average for the Armigers; they each took down a Stormraven. The Atrapos soaked up a lot of fire thanks to boosting it's 4++ to a 3++ from the stratagem but as usual didn't do much besides kill some tac marines because there wasn't anything big to take down. It will soak up it's points in firepower but never makes them back in killing. What it really did was keep fire away from my Armigers and let them run around chase down the 'Ravens and then cleave the contents over a few rounds. Overall while the Armigers are worse Relic Contemptors in terms of individual power they are faster and make it easy to net 3 more command points. Your opponent will always shoot the big Knight first but use those 3 CP for Rotate Ion Shields and Machine Spirit Resurgent. I expect <HOUSEHOLD> rules to give them a little buff them and make them a tad better; right now they are pretty killable but can sneak under the radar while the big knight draws fire. Played well I give them a 7.5 out of 10 until the Household rules come out. Melta in this edition is too many points across the board. I would never take them alone without a big Knight to draw fire as they'll fold on their own quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I agree with Nusquam that they really shouldn't be the biggest thing on the field, they lack the durability to last long when seriously targeted by an enemy and are too small to justify spending CP on Rotate Ion Shields and Machine Spirit Resurgent on the Armigers. Save the CP to protect and get the most out of bigger Knights that can distract and shield the smaller Armigers.Right now I think their biggest weakness is a lack of weapon options, if you aren't fighting a lot of armor the considerable melta fire from these guys is not going to make a dent against hordes. I currently have 4 that I'm building and they are certainly going to scare armor but they'll put more pressure on the rest of my army to deal with infantry. Hopefully when they come out as a single box their other rumored weapon options will give them more variety in their role and functions in a list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 I magnetized the melta option. I would love an onslaught variant. Until then they really are there just to charge down vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeatGrinder Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I keep coming back to the feeling that they just arent very good, and I want them to be good so bad. I cant think of a reason to take them over a pair of dunecrawlers. Im hoping that theres more coming for them and forgebane is just more of a teaser than the final costs and rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 How many PL are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 At half the point of a knight, they are hard to justify and currently in an admech army, they are just not worth the CP for stratagems, they also don't do anything dunecrawlers can't do better, other than reach objectives. If I wanted objective grabbers/skirmishers though, you can get about 4 dragoons for the price of 1 armiger, as stygies these guys will take far more ranged firepower to remove. Dunecrawlers shoot far more efficient per point, and fully benefit of admech canticles, dogmas and repairs from HQ's (all the enginseer tax needs to do something right). Dragoons fill the skirmisher role really efficiently per point as well. Armigers are not bad though, and I am sure they become very useful to knight armies when the codex lands, but in an admech army they are not all that needed. At least it is cheaper to buy 2 armigers than 2 dunecrawlers and 3 dragoons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Got 4 of the little dudes on the way and tempted to run them at the 40k doubles Tournament. Maybe 3 and some Skitarii? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Maybe we shouldn’t shout that comparison about how dragoons and onagers are better and more efficient. Might end up nerfing those to make the knights seem better haha. Ok I shouldn’t joke in case that actually happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scurvydog Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Who knows, maybe the new knight book will also make a questor mechanicus detachment really good and synergize well with admech, or have some "dogma" equal kind of rule from houses. That could easily go from "ok'ish" to great, combined with more weapon options (some anti horde guns maybe). The model fits right into the admech army aesthetics, so I would be happy to bring them at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vash113 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 At half the point of a knight, they are hard to justify and currently in an admech army, they are just not worth the CP for stratagems, they also don't do anything dunecrawlers can't do better, other than reach objectives. If I wanted objective grabbers/skirmishers though, you can get about 4 dragoons for the price of 1 armiger, as stygies these guys will take far more ranged firepower to remove. Dunecrawlers shoot far more efficient per point, and fully benefit of admech canticles, dogmas and repairs from HQ's (all the enginseer tax needs to do something right). Dragoons fill the skirmisher role really efficiently per point as well. Armigers are not bad though, and I am sure they become very useful to knight armies when the codex lands, but in an admech army they are not all that needed. At least it is cheaper to buy 2 armigers than 2 dunecrawlers and 3 dragoons. This was exactly my feeling when first seeing the rules and points costs of the Armigers. Their stats are almost identical to the Onager and the Neutron Laser has almost the same stats as the Thermal Lance but longer range and more consistent damge, plus two stubbers. Plus re-rolls from nearby Techpriest Dominus or Cawl and Canticles, all for a hundred points and five power less with a mere one wound less than the Armiger. Sure the Armiger has better melee but it's still not cutting through any sizable numbers or anything particularly big or nasty. An Onager with Neutron Laser plus a couple of Sydonian Dragoons outperforms the Armiger consistently I think. Which means that to become really competitive as an option in a Mechanicus list the Armiger needs some synergistic abilities or other weapon options that diversify it's role away from the more efficient Onager and Sydonians and I'm really hoping that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clingy Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Fingers crossed mechadendrites too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Got 4 of the little dudes on the way and tempted to run them at the 40k doubles Tournament. Maybe 3 and some Skitarii? This is what I was trying to do for my list. I created a list with a combination of stuff that I consider 'fun to use' and stuff that will help me keep somewhat competitive. I just had a game with my Admech yesterday and I had a full fledged Crusader. I realized during the game that replacing him with 3 redemptor dreadnaughts (with essentially half the fire power) isn't going to work. Here I have the kits... I've gone nuts putting them together and priming them up and I feel completely deflated now and have lost motivation. Putting 3 in a list you can really see it on paper how much it affects your normal admech list building. Still I'm hoping I'm just going through a hobby rut with them. I mean I thought Custodes would outright suck... I really did at their points cost, and they're okay. I keep reminding myself of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 One interesting tid-bit that on the reveal stream for the Knight codex Pete Foley mentioned about Household rules for those Knights also aligned with the Mechanicus. Hoping that means we'll have a bit of synergy and be allowed to use a certain set of household rules. Got 4 of the little dudes on the way and tempted to run them at the 40k doubles Tournament. Maybe 3 and some Skitarii? This is what I was trying to do for my list. I created a list with a combination of stuff that I consider 'fun to use' and stuff that will help me keep somewhat competitive. I just had a game with my Admech yesterday and I had a full fledged Crusader. I realized during the game that replacing him with 3 redemptor dreadnaughts (with essentially half the fire power) isn't going to work. Here I have the kits... I've gone nuts putting them together and priming them up and I feel completely deflated now and have lost motivation. Putting 3 in a list you can really see it on paper how much it affects your normal admech list building. Still I'm hoping I'm just going through a hobby rut with them. I mean I thought Custodes would outright suck... I really did at their points cost, and they're okay. I keep reminding myself of that. It's tough... I think in your case the three have other advantages (harder to put down as it's three models, can move individually etc) but yes, the firepower will be missed and moving is not the best option always. I think nothing beats actual use in a game though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I keep trying to make my list... I worked my butt off on the Armigers and need to finish by tonight.... I'm trying to get 4 in the list, but doesn't seem plausible with Cawl. Funny thing is I keep trying to creep CC units back in but I keep telling myself 3 Armigers SHOULD be taking that role over. It's just with Admech you know being stuck in is instant endgame and in today's game it's very possible to be charged T1 with chaos, and for sure T2 with Nids/orks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I keep trying to make my list... I worked my butt off on the Armigers and need to finish by tonight.... I'm trying to get 4 in the list, but doesn't seem plausible with Cawl. Funny thing is I keep trying to creep CC units back in but I keep telling myself 3 Armigers SHOULD be taking that role over. It's just with Admech you know being stuck in is instant endgame and in today's game it's very possible to be charged T1 with chaos, and for sure T2 with Nids/orks. And soon DEFINITELY Dark Eldar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 ugh.. Thanks for the reminder. lol I have trouble with how chaff works in 40k right now. I think this exacerbates AdMechs inherent problems (especially matched/competitive play with objectives). The Armiger being so expensive has to do a lot of things. Luckily I am rolling this into 'fun' games. But going forward I would like to have units of Armigers with about 12 assault cannon shots in total.... and then I'd feel a lot better about their cost, and sliding scale. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 If the Armiger could take the torrent flamer and a upscaled heavy flamer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plasmablasts Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 If the Armiger could take the torrent flamer and a upscaled heavy flamer.... The Thermal Spear is a slightly upscaled Devil Dog melta-cannon, so a slightly upscaled Hellhound Inferno Cannon would fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 If the Armiger could take the torrent flamer and a upscaled heavy flamer.... Now take that idea, but he can also fire them while locked in combat too (which IMO all larger models with flamer weapons should be able to)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Model-wise, I like the armigers. Really quick to build and paint compared to a full-sized knight, easy to magnetize, and easy to add some optional weapons from the bitz box (rule of cool) or upcoming sprues. The rules...well, comparing it to onagers and dragoons makes it ridiculously overpriced. Maybe they drop the cost with the knight codex, otherwise they remain a shelf decoration like the ordinatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novembermike Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I feel like they just need a little extra. If they had a stompy boots melee weapon or were slightly more durable or had better weapon options they'd be great. I'd pay 200 points for that with the melta swapped out for a punisher cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mileposter Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I think Forgebane did the Armigers a disservice - most seem to assume that the Armiger is inherently a unit designed for AdMech. ... Might be that it was designed for the Knights. Which raises the question - why WAS it included in Forgebane? Is this meant to inherently advertise 'souping'? Is it just a casualty of the lore - being that some Knights are essentially just AdMech lackeys? Or just a product of promotion, to sneak in new models? All in all, I love that the Armigers are a thing. It makes sense that they have more of an AdMech appearance to them than the Knightly look, given potential origins. I hope that options expand once the standalone kit comes along - but also for appearances as well, similar to the knight having faceplate and aesthetic options. I also love the idea of Armigers supporting an infantry based Militarum army. That'd synergize well, I'd think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Mile, I don’t think that is correct. I think most everyone knows the Armiger is a long term plan for the soon to be released Knight Codex. The reason it is with Admech is it firstly pairs the Armiger up with a well matched infantry army ( otherwise the points would be awkward and one sided in the box). Secondly it’s a way for GW to offload AdMech models that almost every existing AdMech player has too many of. ( Forgebane nearly duplicates the starter box for AdMech without the best part: Onager) Necrons really son out here as their starter is unique to Forgebane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 The Arimager needs to come down in points by at least 60 to be balanced, and Knight are still 100 points over their effectiveness. Hope for a chance, but that probably won’t happen. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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