Chaos takes 2nd at Adepticon

[Vorenus]

Are we happy about that? The lists are up on Spikey Bits. I can't figure out how to post a link from my phone. Anyway, the Chaos list had three detachments, one from Black Legion with Abaddon and lots of Cultists, one from Thousand Sons with Ahriman and Tzaangors, and one from Death Guard with Typhus and lots of Pox Walkers. What does everyone think about this?

[Vorenus]

Oh, and each Detachment also had a Daemon Prince with Wings.

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

Couldn't give a :cuss.

[Son of Carnelian]

Blessings be upon the Dark Gods and their servants!

[Raven1]

I love it, I'm happy to see my preferred faction(s) on the top tables.

[Panzer]

Definitely an interesting and fun list. Only the Daemon Princes don't really fit the theme imo. However it's not a list I'd like to see all the time due lack of actual Marines.

[shandwen]

Doesn't this mean chaos actually won, as from what I've read on other posts around here the winning list kinda cheated?

[Panzer]

If you're talking about the BA list, then it didn't won anyway. A Tyranid list won iirc.

And about the BA list...if he had replaced Seth with a Thunderhammer Captain or Mephiston he wouldn't have had an illegal list and it probably would've been stronger anyway. So it was mainly a derp due the silly way successor chaptets get handled in the BA dex.

[totgeboren]

I.... don't think we should be all that happy about it, since it might give GW a reason to nerf our list. As someone who still tries to make CSM lists which contains actual CSM units, like CSM, Raptors, Havocs and Chosen, I am struggling mightily to compete with other 'fluffy' lists (that I play WB isn't helping I guess).

 

But this could as well be more of an issue with the core rules. I don't think we will ever see any list with a heavy Tactical marine presence in the top either, unless they do like in 7ed and give such armies massive amounts of free units.

[masterstrider]

It really exemplifies how imbalanced 40k is for tournament play. The fact that units are "points efficient" tells you everything you need to know about competitive play. I don't see the value in having points unless GW balances units a little better. The point is to have units be comparable and the points value manages this.

 

I don't blame Nick for using the list he did. He's just using the rules as they are. (I wrote one similar but didn't want to buy and field 300 models for something that may change on a whim).

 

Some obvious things that need to change are:

Group 1

*Supreme command detachment needs to go from matched play.

*0-1 of certain units per detachment needs to be introduced into matched play.

 

Group 2

*Rebalance of points or adjustment of unit stats to reflect their in game value e.g. the Flyrant.

*Rebalance some rules, e.g. probably limit the max sizes for Poxwalker bombs so it doesn't get out of hand, or sort out the Ynnari faction keyword to prevent Soul burst shenanigans, etc.

*Once all the Codexs drop, introduce stratagems that make non-META units viable, e.g. (chaos) space marines, to introduce some diversity in army lists.

*GW needs to decide if it wants to write fluffy rules or tournament rules - because hedging their bets like they are now is not serving either community.

 

Addendum:

It looks like GW's position on the kinds of changes in Group 1 is to expect TOs to manage them. That's a bit soft, but I think they will stick to it.

Group 2 changes they will manage. The expectation is they will balance certain points if they feel something is overpowered. But how certain rule interact when they are used in a tournament setting is beyond GW's reproach as the event may introduce interactions they cannot account for.

Edited March 26, 2018 by masterstrider

[Iron_Within]

That is the nasty poxwalker factory list yeah?

I think the living dead strategem is going to get a nerf, says the guy who just bought 50 poxwakers :o

Based upon thier previous nerfs it'll likely be harsh, which i can understand the thought process of. I think a sensible NERF would be 2cp for it and pox walker units cannot exceed thier maximum size (50) with this (also you cannot gain poxwalkers if a different unit of pox walkers gained models from the same casualty). I think it'll be harsher. This had realised a question for me ill start another thread for.

[Panzer]

50 Poxwalker will have their use even without the Stratagem. I'd worry more if I had 100+ Poxwalker. :D

[Doom Herald]

Masterstrider,

Do people actually still use Ynnari after the massive nerf their FAQ gave them?

[masterstrider]

Masterstrider,

Do people actually still use Ynnari after the massive nerf their FAQ gave them?

They do. Technically, you can attach the Ynnari faction keyword onto units without them losing the Craftworld faction keyword. This let's you use Shining Spears from Saim Hann, using their stratagems (specifically the one that lets you advance, shoot and charge in the same turn), but since they are in a Ynnari detachment, still receive the benefits of Soulbursts, so you can get a free shooting round or fight phase. Or the other one, which is using Dark Reapers to fire twice using Soulburst. No command points are spent and it's activated every turn. It's pretty cheesy. If you want to see a good example of this, watch the LVO matches on Twitch/Youtube and you'll see it in action.

 

It's something that will probably be FAQ'd so that you can have one or the other, but at the moment, you can abuse it.

[Doom Herald]

Masterstrider,

I see. It's a shame, everything I see about Ynnari being unbalanced stems from them being used with Craftworlds. My local Ynarri player used Drukhari and Harlequins (until the nerf). It was challenging because the tactics required to beat them differed from other armies, but it didn't feel as grossly imbalanced as I'm hearing people say Ctaftworld Ynnari are. In my personal experience though, even non-Ynnari Craftworlders are imbalanced, but I have limited experience against them so that might contribute.

Edited March 28, 2018 by ThanatosMalleus

[Marshlands]

In my personal experience though, even non-Ynnari Craftworlders are imbalanced, but I have limited experience against them so that might contribute.

It's true they are (IMO), but the imbalance is imbalanced in that all their penalty to hit shenanigans completely counter shooting armies but count for nothing against a good close assault force (chaos is probably the best example).