Mech Wolves viable?

[Chaplain Adonael]

Hello all.

 

I was curious what tactics most of you are using for army composition. i am looking at running an Ironwolf company and i was curious if mech for wolves is a good thing. any help is appreciated. Btw i have enough to field a great company with rhinos and other mechanical vehicles.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Hello all.

 

I was curious what tactics most of you are using for army composition. i am looking at running an Ironwolf company and i was curious if mech for wolves is a good thing. any help is appreciated. Btw i have enough to field a great company with rhinos and other mechanical vehicles.

 

Just ran a list of 4 Razorbacks (two of which are Assault cannon) and a Stormwolf. Using Bjorn and a lieutenant as for rerolls for all of them, and I was able to do a significant amount of damage each round. It was beautiful rolling for the assault cannon, even when it moved.

 

As in everything else, synergy is key. If you can deploy the asscannon RBs close enough and get first turn, then you are in a postion to do a heap of damage before the return fire comes in. So even as you deploy, try to get cover as well. With Assault Cannons -1AP, it's good enough to make sure the marines are saving only on 3+ when you are firing 12 shots wounding on 3+, which should equal at least 5 dead marines, or 2 primaris Hellbasters. And that's just on one Razorback. 

 

That's why always have another Razorback assault cannnon in case you don't get first turn. So far on average, unless he brings a superheavy, it's still hard to kill one vehicle per turn with full lascannons.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Kasper_Hawser

[Karhedron]

I have also had great success with success with MSU Grey Hunter squads in Razorbacks led by Bjorn. If you opponent is static, advance them up the field laying down fire. If your opponent wants to come to you, hunker down and shoot. Razorbacks are tough enough that they take some decent anti-tank to shift but cheap enough that you can run them in the numbers needed to put out a satisfying weight of fire.

 

Once you are close to the enemy, the Grey Hunters can jump out and add their bolters/plasma/melta to the mix and then charge if necessary/useful or take objectives. Bjorn is a beast in combat (I have torn a Wraithknight in half with him in a single round of combat in 8th). Add some extra fire support (I normally run a unit of Long Fangs and a unit of Hellblasters near Bjorn) and a Rune Priest (I like Njal) to cast Stormcaller on the centre of your line and you are good to go.

[PeteySödes]

Seconded with Karhedronuk, though I do like to play a more Company of the Great Wolf feel a lot. So I sub the grey hunters for SS/SB wolf guard. Between them and TLAC razors, infantry is covered so i just bring a unit of Long Fangs and a dread for the anti-armor.

[Chaplain Adonael]

ok. now my question is do you use Bjorn an WGBL and a Rune Priest with Storm Caller and the Razorbacks around them?

almost like a star but using the bubbles?

[PeteySödes]

ok. now my question is do you use Bjorn an WGBL and a Rune Priest with Storm Caller and the Razorbacks around them?

almost like a star but using the bubbles?

 

I tried that once against nids and it was really gnarly, gave them jump packs in case i needed to redeploy. I didnt. Everything melts.

 

I just found it kind of boring to play.

[Chaplain Adonael]

so pretty much run them up the middle and when i am close enough deploy my infantry and use the hell out of true grit?

[PeteySödes]

so pretty much run them up the middle and when i am close enough deploy my infantry and use the hell out of true grit?

 

Well most of the work gets done by the razors, if your leaning on the shooting you wouldn't want to stay in combat so no true grit. Depends on who you're playing though. That particular build though I'd largely castle up, destroy what you can until turn 3 then move out to cap objectives.

[Chaplain Adonael]

How is this?

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [82 PL, 1414pts] ++

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

+ HQ +

 

Bjorn the Fell-handed [14 PL, 239pts]: Assault cannon, Heavy flamer, Saga of the Warrior Born, Warlord

 

Wolf Guard Battle Leader [6 PL, 72pts]: Frost sword, Jump Packs, Krakenbone Sword, Storm bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 182pts]: Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

 

+ Troops +

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [27 PL, 585pts] ++

 

+ Lord of War +

 

Knight Crusader [27 PL, 585pts]: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer, Heavy stubber, Stormspear rocket pod

. Rapid-fire battle cannon w/ heavy stubber: Heavy stubber, Rapid-fire battle cannon

 

++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

How is this?

 

 

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [82 PL, 1414pts] ++

 

+ Dedicated Transport +

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

 

+ HQ +

 

Bjorn the Fell-handed [14 PL, 239pts]: Assault cannon, Heavy flamer, Saga of the Warrior Born, Warlord

 

Wolf Guard Battle Leader [6 PL, 72pts]: Frost sword, Jump Packs, Krakenbone Sword, Storm bolter

 

+ Elites +

 

Redemptor Dreadnought [10 PL, 197pts]: 2x Storm Bolters, Icarus Rocket Pod, Macro Plasma Incinerator, Onslaught Gatling Cannon

 

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 182pts]: Twin lascannon

. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

 

+ Troops +

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

Grey Hunters [6 PL, 65pts]: Grey Hunter Pack Leader, 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol

 

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [27 PL, 585pts] ++

 

+ Lord of War +

 

Knight Crusader [27 PL, 585pts]: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer, Heavy stubber, Stormspear rocket pod

. Rapid-fire battle cannon w/ heavy stubber: Heavy stubber, Rapid-fire battle cannon

 

++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

 

Not my cup of tea to use Knights, but if you want to be clinical about it, for 585 points, you can replace the Knight with either 2 squads of Lascannon Long Fangs and another 1 with heavy bolters, or alternatively one squad of lascannon fangs and a Stormwolf which has same amount of anti-infantry shots as twin assault in the form of TWO Twin heavy bolters.

 

If you continue using the Knight.....

 

....Your Grey Hunter dudes are a little small and have no teeth. I suggest you spread plasma and combi plasma among the 4 squads, taking away the lascannon dreadnought to pay for them. Also get another HQ, Iron Priest or Rune Priest for either repairs or Stormcaller respectively.

[Karhedron]

Here is my standard 1500 point list which is currently undefeated, even against proper Codex lists since I started running it last autumn. A few of the options are sub-optimal such as the Long Fang loadout due to being old models. I also have a few expensive indulgences such as the pack leaders but overall it works very ewll.

 

HQ

138 Njal Stormcaller in power armour.

239 Bjorn with assault cannon, True Claw and Heavy Flamer

 

Troops

99 5 Grey Hunters w melta gun and Leader with power axe  + Banner

47 Wolf guard with combi melta and power fist

116 Razorback with Twin assault cannons, Stormbolter

99 5 Grey Hunters w melta gun and Leader with power axe  + Banner

47 Wolf guard with combi melta and power fist

116 Razorback with Twin assault cannons, Stormbolter

167 10 Grey Hunters w 2 plasma guns and Leader with power sword and plasma pistol

56 Wolf guard in terminator armour with Combi-Plas and Frost axe

 

Heavy

165 5 Hellblasters

207 6 Long fangs with 2 plasma cannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Lascannon

 

1496 Total

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

Here is my standard 1500 point list which is currently undefeated, even against proper Codex lists since I started running it last autumn. A few of the options are sub-optimal such as the Long Fang loadout due to being old models. I also have a few expensive indulgences such as the pack leaders but overall it works very ewll.

 

HQ

138 Njal Stormcaller in power armour.

239 Bjorn with assault cannon, True Claw and Heavy Flamer

 

Troops

99 5 Grey Hunters w melta gun and Leader with power axe  + Banner

47 Wolf guard with combi melta and power fist

116 Razorback with Twin assault cannons, Stormbolter

99 5 Grey Hunters w melta gun and Leader with power axe  + Banner

47 Wolf guard with combi melta and power fist

116 Razorback with Twin assault cannons, Stormbolter

167 10 Grey Hunters w 2 plasma guns and Leader with power sword and plasma pistol

56 Wolf guard in terminator armour with Combi-Plas and Frost axe

 

Heavy

165 5 Hellblasters

207 6 Long fangs with 2 plasma cannons, 2 Missile Launchers, Lascannon

 

1496 Total

 

 

Interesting combination, might try this out except that I'll expand to 2000 points. Probably add the Stormwolf and an Iron Priest to the mix. 

 

If I may comment though, the big blob of Grey Hunters with Terminator guard armed with plasmas outflanking.... a bit too big of an investment to be honest in my opinion. I rather outflank one small group with plasma gun, combi plasma and maybe one plasma pistol rather than spending on another 4 grey hunters to get the extra plasma gun. outflanking with only six inches from the board is a little unwieldy I find.

 

Still, it's a good distraction and can potentially pin the opponent in his zone or spread out his deployment, leaving his middle weak where the Space Wolves are strongest.

[Karhedron]

Sure, feel free to tweak and adjust the list however you like. The TDA Pack leader is an old 2nd Ed metal model I am fond of as I converted it the hard way.

 

The blob on foot can outflank but I tend to use it more as a screen for units behind. My usual setup is the Hunters, Hellblasters, Bjorn and Njal advancing down the centre on foot. With Stormcaller in effect, that is a lot of 2+ saves for opponents to chew through. The Long Fangs usually hold a back field objective, preferably somewhere in cover with a good field of fire. The Razorbacks then go on the flanks and either support the advance or head off to deliver the melta guns against suitably juicy targets.

 

At 2000 points I have sometimes dropped the TDA Pack Leader and added in a Knight as massive shooting distraction. Very few heavy weapons find their way onto the Razorbacks or Bjorn when one of those is stomping forwards. :D I haven't had one survive more than 2 turns but they deliver a lot of firepower and usually make sure the Wolves get to grips with their opponents. Now that Knights have the "Rotate Ion Shields" stratagem, it might last a bit longer.

 

One plan I have for the future is to expand the Hellblasters to 10-strong and outflank the. Then add a Wolf Lord in TDA or with a Jump Pack to babysit their shooting. They can move in 6" from any board edge meaning that only a narrow strip in the centre is safe from their 15" double-tap. Hordes could potentially reduce the area they can come on from but with 5 assault cannons, I should be able to hose a landing area clear for them if necessary.

[TiguriusX]

 

 

One plan I have for the future is to expand the Hellblasters to 10-strong and outflank the. Then add a Wolf Lord in TDA or with a Jump Pack to babysit their shooting. They can move in 6" from any board edge meaning that only a narrow strip in the centre is safe from their 15" double-tap. Hordes could potentially reduce the area they can come on from but with 5 assault cannons, I should be able to hose a landing area clear for them if necessary.

 

Have you considered modifying your hell blasters to use the assault version of the gun?  It has a guaranteed 2 shots and a range of 24.  Gives you much more flexibility when outflanking (and can help them live longer since they can pop out further away if they choose).

 

My outflanking plasma role eventually went to barebone long fangs with a plasma and combi plasma (basically an MSU GH squad with plasma but they have reroll 1s)

The runner up was a hell blaster squad and I was leaning heavily on the flexibility of the assault version in my theory crafting.

[PeteySödes]

 

 

If I may comment though, the big blob of Grey Hunters with Terminator guard armed with plasmas outflanking.... a bit too big of an investment to be honest in my opinion. I rather outflank one small group with plasma gun, combi plasma and maybe one plasma pistol rather than spending on another 4 grey hunters to get the extra plasma gun. outflanking with only six inches from the board is a little unwieldy I find.

 

Still, it's a good distraction and can potentially pin the opponent in his zone or spread out his deployment, leaving his middle weak where the Space Wolves are strongest.

 

 

I can comment here, these squads are beasts. At Adepticon this weekend I took 2 10 man units like this, one with plas, one with melta each led by a WG terminator with a matching combi and a SS. They eat so much damage and are incredibly flexible with the Cunning of the Wolf option. It does indeed get pricey but if youre playing anything with eternal war objectives or playing all comers style they are incredible.

[Karhedron]

Have you considered modifying your hell blasters to use the assault version of the gun?  It has a guaranteed 2 shots and a range of 24.  Gives you much more flexibility when outflanking (and can help them live longer since they can pop out further away if they choose).

Not a bad suggestion at all. I do like the S7/8 profile but the Assault version extends that crucial double-tap window out to 24". Choices, choices......

[PeteySödes]

 

Have you considered modifying your hell blasters to use the assault version of the gun?  It has a guaranteed 2 shots and a range of 24.  Gives you much more flexibility when outflanking (and can help them live longer since they can pop out further away if they choose).

Not a bad suggestion at all. I do like the S7/8 profile but the Assault version extends that crucial double-tap window out to 24". Choices, choices......

 

 

Totally! Depends on what your hunting I suppose. If you're fighting a lot of Guard with Russ's might be better to stick with the standard. Eldar though, the S doesn't matter much and the extended range of the double shot could catch some of those sneaks...

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

 

Have you considered modifying your hell blasters to use the assault version of the gun?  It has a guaranteed 2 shots and a range of 24.  Gives you much more flexibility when outflanking (and can help them live longer since they can pop out further away if they choose).

Not a bad suggestion at all. I do like the S7/8 profile but the Assault version extends that crucial double-tap window out to 24". Choices, choices......

 

 

Totally! Depends on what your hunting I suppose. If you're fighting a lot of Guard with Russ's might be better to stick with the standard. Eldar though, the S doesn't matter much and the extended range of the double shot could catch some of those sneaks...

 

 

If I may theorize, if you are not going to dedicate a Wolf Lord to ensure their overcharges stick, then assault plasma will indeed be more flexible and give more shots at 24" range.

 

Typically though, when I overcharge my plasma, I'm looking for the sweet S8 for 2+ to wound MEQ or 3+ to wound T7. So in the case of a mobile gunline, no, I don't think I would go for the assault plasma. A bit pricy for an outflanking unit too.

 

Ouch just checked, assault plasma is a little less than 20 points more expensive than normal incinerators.(5 man squad) To me, outflankers SHOULDN'T (edited) be too expensive in case things go south, yet still threatening enough that opponent has to choose to deal with them and take away fire from the valuable "front line".

Edited March 29, 2018 by Kasper_Hawser

[DanPesci]

Awesome to see that people are having success with 'no-twc no-wulfen' lists.

 

I was waiting until the next codex drops to start work again proper on my wolves but this has given me a bit of inspiration for painting up a few of my mk3 grey hunter/WG units i wanted to do.

[TiguriusX]

 

 

Ouch just checked, assault plasma is a little less than 20 points more expensive than normal incinerators.(5 man squad) To me, outflankers SHOULDN'T (edited) be too expensive in case things go south, yet still threatening enough that opponent has to choose to deal with them and take away fire from the valuable "front line".

 

 

Yes but that price increase grants great tactical flexibility.  9 more inches of double tap range as compared to the regular hellblaster.

 

Remember how much trouble you had finding a place to outflank when testing melee units?  That 9 extra inches is extremely useful to find a position that benefits you while also reaching a preferred taret.  

 

With 24" you can double tap midfield units in the rear who think they have LOS blocking terrain to your main troops depending on where you pop out.

 

But yes...you are paying for it.

 

The gun also changes the primary role of hellblasters to infantry killing.

 

An alternative build with similar pricing

-Jump WG with SS/Combi-plasma (12 points more than the assault hellblasters...saves you a CP and is not restricted to the board edge...better durability against high end weapons...less against buckets of dice...higher strength plasma in case you want to hit a vehicle)

[Kasper_Hawser]

Awesome to see that people are having success with 'no-twc no-wulfen' lists.

 

I was waiting until the next codex drops to start work again proper on my wolves but this has given me a bit of inspiration for painting up a few of my mk3 grey hunter/WG units i wanted to do.

 

Yep absolutely love this tactics discussion, where nobody has brought up the overgrown canines or werewolves. Then again, this discussion is 1000 points so can't fit too much of either in it except maybe a lord on TWC as mobile counter assault and army buffer.

 

 

 

 

 

Ouch just checked, assault plasma is a little less than 20 points more expensive than normal incinerators.(5 man squad) To me, outflankers SHOULDN'T (edited) be too expensive in case things go south, yet still threatening enough that opponent has to choose to deal with them and take away fire from the valuable "front line".

 

 

Yes but that price increase grants great tactical flexibility.  9 more inches of double tap range as compared to the regular hellblaster.

 

Remember how much trouble you had finding a place to outflank when testing melee units?  That 9 extra inches is extremely useful to find a position that benefits you while also reaching a preferred taret.  

 

With 24" you can double tap midfield units in the rear who think they have LOS blocking terrain to your main troops depending on where you pop out.

 

But yes...you are paying for it.

 

The gun also changes the primary role of hellblasters to infantry killing.

 

An alternative build with similar pricing

-Jump WG with SS/Combi-plasma (12 points more than the assault hellblasters...saves you a CP and is not restricted to the board edge...better durability against high end weapons...less against buckets of dice...higher strength plasma in case you want to hit a vehicle)

 

 

Absolutely noted, thanks for enlightening me on the value of assault plasma hellblasters. My thinking was still skewed towards using against anti-elite/semi-elite infantry and emergency anti-vehicle. With assault hellblasters, as you say, it is more anti infantry/semi - elite infantry and emergency anti elite/character harasser.

 

Note when I say semi-elite, I generally mean troop marines, either primaris or normal. As you say, double tapping at 24" resolves the "clogging" problem I have when using the Cunning of the Wolf strategem.

 

Still have to assemble/paint enough hellblasters. Although I already have 5 ready so probably can try out. Incidentally, I thougth the assault blasters looked cool so assembled that version. Not much difference between normal and assault incinerators anyway besides a much cooler looking scope.

Edited March 30, 2018 by Kasper_Hawser