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Sisters: Ideas, In Light of Plastic Sisters, 2019(ish)


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Id like to see a stratagem for sisters with flamers. Not the usual recommendation for rerolling amount of hits. Something unique.

 

Something maybe like..

 

Use when a sororitas unit arem with one or more flamers fires at an enemy unit. Any hits on the enemy unit caused by flamer weapons count as lost models in the Morale phase...

 

Or simplify it to...

 

Hits caused by flamer weapons lower the enemy units Ld by the amount of hits fir the remainder of the player turn.

 

Maybe condition it to cannot be lowered by any more than 6.

 

Maybe a 2 or 3 Cp cost.

ERJAK: Indeed - my heavy Infantry assertion is on fluff grounds and deliberately excludes Astartes and Custodes from comparison.

 

My tabletop experience is somewhat deficient (I can count my games of 8th edition on the fingers of one foot...), but I can see that one of the reasons plasma guns are deemed superior to melta (or flamers) is due to the 9” deep-strike exclusion zone. Plasma can still rapid-fire, but melta is at long-range and flamers are out altogether. That doesn’t matter to Sisters, as deep-strike is only available to Seraphim who don’t use those special weapons.

 

Mard: I agree - there is a logical role for a heavy cavalry unit, but the rules design would need to ensure that it doesn’t cause redundancy when considering the various non-Sororitas Ministorum units, which are all melee units.

Id like to see a stratagem for sisters with flamers. Not the usual recommendation for rerolling amount of hits. Something unique.

 

Something maybe like..

 

Use when a sororitas unit arem with one or more flamers fires at an enemy unit. Any hits on the enemy unit caused by flamer weapons count as lost models in the Morale phase...

 

Or simplify it to...

 

Hits caused by flamer weapons lower the enemy units Ld by the amount of hits fir the remainder of the player turn.

 

Maybe condition it to cannot be lowered by any more than 6.

 

Maybe a 2 or 3 Cp cost.

Given that a Battle Sister Squad can carry three flamer-type weapons (combi-, special and heavy) and Dominions and Retributors can carry five, the first version would effectively allow the latter units to inflict 5d6 auto-hitting mortal wounds in a single shooting phase. That could be... fun...

I have always liked the idea of a special Sisters grenade launcher and missile launcher that fired incidenary/fire grenades and missiles as well as melta grenades/missiles.


I would enjoy the BSS getting buffed. Many troop choices get one or two special rules as they grow in size. Combine with going back to 20 models a unit and hopefully increasing the special/heavy allotment and you have a very interesting troop choice. 10+ models? Take morale at a D3 because of the sheer religious fervor. 15+ models? They generate their own AoF on a 4+ or something.

I'd keep the proposed new special and heavy weapons to Dominions, Retributors, and Celestians since they would be more 'specialized' armaments. A heavy infantry melee unit made for bashing and smashing would be a good line-holder.

Yeah the tamer version would be better and i forgot to mention that the debuff qould be based off the highest rolled d6 for flamer hits. So a squad of 5 flamer doms could luck out and only cause a -1 debuff with a bad roll.

 

Granted this is easily OP, hemce why it should be an expensive stratagem.

 

GW of course wouldnt do such a thing, but i use this to illustrate that id like to see some creative and quirky stratagems unique to sisters that arent just 'make more killy'

Ive been pondering on whether or not we will get a better roll against psychic attacks. Our faith in the fluff is supposed to be unshakeable. It should be reflected on the board too.

I imagine we'll get a strategem that let's you add 2 to all rolls for deny the witch.

 

Really, all I think we need to be competitive is a few strategems that don't suck. We are clearly still good as an index army, we just lack the relics, strategems and warlord traits. Anything new might push us into bandwaggon Nerf territories.

Ive spoken to a number of Sisters players online and the vast majority feel that we just need, as Beams said, a few decent strategems that help us. Outside of that and the strengthening of aforementioned units, I think we're mainly good to go as we are to be honest.

 

A dedicated flier, preferably a troop transport would be nice too though :)

After 20+ games this edition, the only thing I would want for my girls are:

 

Something to speed up Penitent Engines (advance and charge?) or shield of faith for slightly better durability.

A reason to take Celestians (maybe angelic visage to make them more durable).

Maybe a slight tweak to exorcist missiles (flat 3damage or reroll wounds/reroll damage against vehicles, similar to the Custodes)

 

If we get some cool new flyer that would be awesome. I just hope whatever battle sister models do get released are more "pragmatic" (Sisters of Silence) and less over the top with flimsy flowy purity seals (new Celestine and co.)

 

I like the route GW is going with specific infaction factions providing benefits, I'm sure we'll get some interesting bonuses based on the established Orders from the old 2nd ed? 3rd ed? book.

 

Regarding strategems, the two we got in Chapter Approved are great. Hopefully we can get more at the same standard. Specifically an "Open the Vaults" type, so it's possible to take the Blade of Admonition while running an out of faction warlord. I'm sure GW will dig back though the older codexes and bring back some of the old wargear as relics (Cloak of St. Aspira, etc).

 

As others have already said, the sisters are in a great place right now. Fun to play and very, very fast. I hope that whatever does get released plays in the same vein as the army does now.

After reading up more, and getting retype my flyer idea up to both FB WH40K, and the 40kfaq teams, on the flyer idea with even more here, this is my idea thus far.

 

Same layout.

 

- < = O = > -

 

- Corvus wings

< and > Corvus bays, now weapons pods (paired Melta Lances!)

= Still whatever engines look cool

O Either Valkyrie or Stormwolf transport bay, I like 8 TDA Sisters

 

Maybe a dorsal turret, in the back, like on the Stormwolf, with one of three choices:

- Dual Heavy Bolter

- One Heavy Bolter, one Multi-Melta

- Dual Multi-Melta

 

And just in the front, above the front assault ramp door, the cockpit, with a Sister at the controls, and below her, a turret with one of the following three:

- Dual Heavy Flamer

- One Heavy Flamer, one Heavy Bolter

- Dual Heavy Bolter

 

Additional option to add a Corvus-like pair of Hurricane Bolters.

 

 

And, the payload? 8 Sisters in TDA, sized for them: 1 Cannoness or Palatine, 1 Sister Hospitaler if wanted, 1 Veteran Celestian Superior, and 5 or 6 Celestians with a ranged choice, and a melee choice. Well, what choices?

 

Hee hee...

 

Ranged:

Bolt, melta or flamer pistols. Plasma if still accessible and wanted.

OR

Storm Bolters and Combi Bolters

OR

And this one would depend more on the final TDA Sister model size, but:

Storm pistols. Yes, pair a bolt pistol with either a second, a hand flamer, or an inferno pistol.

 

Melee:

Power Sword or Maul, struggling past that.

 

I love this idea, and Emperor help whatever it and the squad inside goes after!

 

Thoughts please?

 

Edit: on the phone and sick. Still, this sounds terrifyingly fun!

Just as a friendly note, I am going to move my flyer idea into its own thread, in this same forum subsection.

 

I hope this thread will continue; above all, the discussion outside of my flyer idea seems to be going very well, and my continued pushing of one idea that appears to be best turned into its own idea to free up both discussions seems wisest.

 

So, done.

 

Please, by all means, ERJAK, if you are willing, spell out your flyer idea over in the new thread? Also, if given the option, why should Sisters players only get one or the other? Why not both?

 

The Strategems and other ideas discussion, please continue it; who knows what ideas for GW we all might inspire.

 

I do love the idea of Flamers inflicting maybe 1d3, choosing the highest result, per weapon, as a penalty to Morale tests, in addition to their normal damage... maybe 2 CP each use, or, +1 CP per unit after the first or second that fire in a turn? Purgation is a thing to the Sisters, after all...

Ooh, as for what each order would get, I wrote a Sisters codex for 8E already (though I did it by hand because why not so it’s not something I can share here really) and I have each order a small special rule and a unique AoF only units from that order could use, ala regimental orders that the IG have. Granted, I turned down the power of individual AoFs but made it so you’d automatically get more than one per turn (going back more or less to the Faithful rule from the Witch Hunters codex)

 

I don’t have it with me so I don’t remember exactly what each order got though . . . :P

 

I will say that since I removed the <Order> keyword front repentia (since that’s the point, they’ve been thrown out of their Order) the VH rule doesn’t really target Repentia.

Here are some ideas for weapon-specific strategems:
 

Melta- Pick a unit or vehicle that is shooting in your Shooting Phase or firing Overwatch. All Melta weapons in that unit (Meltagun, Multi-Melta, Twin-Multi-Melta, Inferno Pistol, Missile launcher firing Mela Missiles, Grenade Launcher firing Melta-Grenades) may roll 2d6 for damage and pick the highest up to the maximum range instead of half range.

Flamer- Pick a unit or vehicle that is shooting in your Shooting Phase or is firing Overwatch. All Flame weapons (Flamer, Heavy Flamer, Hand flamer, Immolation Flamer, Missile Launcher firing Flame Missiles, Grenade Launcher firing Flame Grenades) get 6 on all d6 rolls for automatic hits from aforementioned weapons. (IE; an Immolation Flamer would get 12 automatic hits).

Flamer 2- Pick a unit or vehicle firing Overwatch. Its flamer weapons have 12 inch range for the duration of overwatch.

Bolter 1- Pick a unit or vehicle that is shooting in your Shooting Phase or firing Overwatch. All Rapid Fire bolter weapons in the unit (Boltgun, Storm Bolter) double their Rapid Fire rating, Boltguns becoming Rapid Fire 2 and Storm Bolters Rapid Fire 4.

Bolter 2- Pick a unit or vehicle that is shooting in your Shooting Phase or firing Overwatch. All Heavy bolter weapons in that unit (Heavy Bolters, Twin Heavy Bolters) add +1 to their Wound rolls.

I've wrote how I'd make the new codex personally. Just for fun, I do not pretend to think it's balanced, just to give the ideas.
(Before I've wrongly posted this in the wrong thread...)

WEAPON LISTS:

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Incendiary Chaser
This weapon is a modified version of the Flamer. It has been designed to chase witches: for that it has a less wide cone (reducing the shoots from D6 to D3) but a greater range (12" instead of 9"). This gives a safer positioning to Sisters and it makes work better this weapon with Bolters (double shots at 12" for Rapid Fire) and Meltas (range 12").

Incendiary Expurgator
Heavy version of the Incendiary Chaser. Same pros, same cons.

Melta Carabine
This weapon is more thinked against heavy infantry being Assault 2 and Damage D3 (against Assault 1 and Damage D6 of the Meltagun). It has been designed to take down Chaos Marines.

Melta Lance
Differently by the MultiMelta this weapon is capable to shoot also rapid volley of lesser powerful blasts.

Assault Storm Bolter
Replace Rapid Fire 2 with Assault 2, to give bigger mobility to Dominions.

Bolt Culverin

This heavy Bolt weapon it has a lesser range (30" vs 36") and a lesser rate of fire (Heavy 2 vs Heavy 3) compared to Heavy Bolters but it has also a greater caliber (S6 vs S5).



TROOPS

ZvtV0o9.jpg
Battle Sisters works more or the less like now, but with the new customized weapons.
Novices are the new troop choice. They are not thinked to be a battle-line but more a force that performs support action: that's why they have only Bolt Pistols, but they are also equiped with powerful mono-use mines. Their "sergeant", the Sister Istructoria, sometimes carry a Neural Whip to better "teach them" how to fight...


ELITES

MdfdhUX.jpg
Repentias are still the same. Wait for the Mistress.
Celestians now have Sarissas too! These S+0 AP-2 power-bayonettes makes them what actually everybody wanted them to be: melee sisters!
Resurectants are a new type of unit of my creation. These are ex Repentias, the fews that were able to survive to their penitence period. Becomed in their penitance path incredibly skilled in the melee combat they still carry their Penitent Eviscerators and are gifted with powerful armors that gives them T4, 2 Wounds and a Jump-Pack. They are slower than Seraphims (10" movement) but they have also a 5+ inv save. Their numbers are few, infact their unit is made by 3-6 models. The Superior can carry a Exterminator, a Flame attachment for the Eviscerator.


FAST ATTACK

DBrpcfL.jpg
Both Seraphim and Dominions are kinda the same, but now Dominions have new weapons.


HEAVY SUPPORT

qhZNP82.jpg
Retributors are like Dominions: same rules, new weapons.
The Exorcist now works in a different way, more similar to the Custards Salvo Launcher.


CHARACTERS

OQnfAx7.jpg
Canoness: Now with Relic Armor (sv 2+) and Presidium Protectiva (sv 3++ against ranged). This last one only if you don't take the Eviscerator.
Canoness with Jump-Pack: Do I have to say something more?
Palatine: Low cost HQ, Hurray!
Dialogus: She now can Deny the Witch! Finally it has a role!
Mistress of Repentance: Like the old one but it also makes Repentias to reroll Shield of Faith.
The remaing ones are like the old ones...

Honestly, in this edition I'd rather have RF2 than Assault 2. Especially on Dominions, which are just as likely to stay in a Repressor for as long as they can. You lose d6 inches of threat range but make up for it with more accurate shots and firing twice as many at targets inside 12".

Was discussing with a friend regarding possible new strategems:

 

Kill the Witch (1CP) - One Sisters infantry unit can target psykers even if that model is a character and not the closest

 

Burn the Heretic (1CP) - Pick a Sisters of Battle unit that is armed with flamer weapons (hand flamer, combiflamer, flamer, heavy flamer, immo flamer), for the remainder of this shooting count all dice rolled to determine the number of shots as "6".

 

^I think Burn the Heretic would works well thematically. It also makes full flamer Doms interesting

 

Juuust read through this topic noticed @CaptainMarsh posted the same thing above. Great minds!

 

For relics though:

Litanies of Faith, army gains a free additional AoF on a 2+

 

Cloak of St.Aspira, improve invul to 3++/reduce damage by 1 to minimum of 1 or half damage?

 

Brazier of Holy Fire, some type of super combiflamer?

I had some ideas for <order rules>, strategems and aofs.

 

Keep in mind that these as is are bliteringly OP and would have to be adjusted down but I prefer to start strong and work my way back to balanced.

 

Acts of Faith Addendum: Acts of Faith can also be used to generate 1 CP instead of any of the other abilities.

 

Points Changes:

MM down to 23; TL MM down to 45; Immolator down 2pts; flamer down 5 pts; heavy flamer down 4pts; handflamer down 1pt; Immoflamer down 1 pt; rhino down 8pts; repentia down 3pts; all non-hq characters down 5pts.

 

Order of the Bloody Rose: +1 Strength +1 WS and +1 Attack for all infantry. Additionally you may reroll one die when determine the number of shots fired for flamer weapons. Gain +2 to the deny roll for SoF

 

Order of Our Martyred Lady: +1 to Shield of Faith Invulnerable Saves when within 6” of an Order of Our Martyred Lady character. Additionally the ‘Martyrdom’ Strategem costs 0 CP to use, can be used an unlimited amount of times in the same phase (1 for each character death), and the act of faith granted is automatically successful. Gain +2 to the deny roll for SoF

 

Order of the Ebon Chalice: Can retreat and shoot at -1 to hit. Gain +3 to the deny roll for SoF

 

Order of the Ardent Shroud: <Order> Seraphim and Celestian squads may shoot and charge the same turn they advance. <Order> infantry do not count casualties inflicted by Ork units when taking battleshock tests. Gain +2 to the deny roll for SoF

 

Order of the Valorous Heart: Order of the Valorous Heart Infantry are -1 to hit from shooting attacks outside of 12” and Valorous Heart Repentia +2 movement and +1 SoF. Gain +1 to the deny roll for SoF

 

Order of the Sacred Rose: Increase the range of all melta and flamer weapons by 3” and reroll the die when determining the number of shots fired by an exorcist. All Order of the Sacred rose vehicles are treated as having 3 more wounds than they actually have for the purpose of the vehicle degradation chart. Gain +1 to the deny roll for SoF

 

Warlord Traits:

 

Celestine: Reroll 1s to hit and to wound within 6”

 

1. Reroll acts of faith tests taken within 9” of this model

2. Reroll 1s to wound within 6” of this model

3. Pick 1 unit with 6” of this model and roll a die, on a 3+, increase that units rend by 1

4. This model may perform an act of faith at the start of each of your opponents turns

5. 6+ gain a command point whenever one is spent

6. Units within 3” of this model roll 2 die instead of one for their SoF deny the witch ability

 

Strategems:

 

Martyrdom: Unchanged

 

4+ Nope a spell: Unchanged

 

Faith as a weapon: 1-5CP at the start of your turns 3+ perform an AoF. Each additional usage costs 1 additional CP, the AoF granted by this ability may not be used to generate additional CP.

 

Faith is my shield!: 4CP Once per game, during 1 phase, add 2 to the Shield of Faith Invulnerable save of all <Order> units. If this Strategem is used during your opponent’s turn then in your following turn you may not use Acts of Faith to generate any additional command points.

 

By the Emperors light I lead!: 2CP Canoness’ reroll aura is extended 3” and rerolls all hits.

 

Give them no quarter!: 2CP Once per turn; 2+ one <Order> unit from your army that did not perform an Act of Faith in your turn can perform an Act of Faith at the beginning of your opponent’s turn. This Act of Faith may not be used to generate command points.

 

Burn the Heretic: 1CP Use this stratagem at the start of your shooting phase, during the shooting phase, all flamer weapons fired by this <Order> Unit gain an additional rend.

 

The Holy Bolter: 2 CP Bolter weapons gain +1 strength during the shooting phase.

 

Purge the Unclean: 2CP One <Order> Units ‘Melta’ Weapons are treated as being fired from within half range regardless of whether or not it actually is.

 

Engine of Piety: Before deployment you may spend 1 CP to grant a vehicle unit the Shield of Faith Special rule or 3CP to grant a vehicle unit the Acts of Faith Special rule. Vehicle units greater than (2 penitent engines) in powerlevel cost 4CP.

 

Beware the Psyker: 1CP All psyker units(friend or foe) within 9” of a friendly <Order> Unit add 1 to their deny the witch rolls and subtract 1 from their casting rolls.

 

The Living Saint Ascendent: 3CP During the combat phase, Saint Celetine gains a 6” Aura that adds +1 to the strength and rend of all adepta sororitas melee attacks. Additionally declare one <Order>, adepta sororitas units in that order gain +1 attack for this combat phase.

I think points changes will be a big thing. I'm really happy that my favorite weapon, Inferno Pistols, are only 9 points now. I think our models who can take two should get the lightning claw discount and only pay 13 points for them both. I don't really think we could use anything other than a flyer in terms of new units. I suppose they could go crazy and make Seraphim into fly hunters, like how Dawneagle jetbikes are.

I think multi-melta should be 15 points.

I would like a Order, or stratagem that allows us to ignore the heavy weapons penatly. I think one of the ORDERs will end up being the assault one. Where you treat rapid fire as Assault, and Heavy doesn't the penalty to move unless they advance.

But really, the line up we have updated, plus maybe one or two new models, and it is a great force. Rules is what we need alongside some beautiful plastics. The plastics will make things easier, depending on whats in the kit.

I'm thinking one of each heavy and special weapon, and 10x Bolters in the battle sisters kit. I can also see them doing the kits like Custodes, with the Battle Sister kit allowing you to build the generic special characters, rather than clamshells like DG.

From there, I think the Retributors and Dominion squads will be a dual kit, with two of each weapon, hopefully not one of each.

I think they will make a plastic Exorcist kit.

 

Basically, if they make these kits in plastic, I will buy and buy and buy:

Cannoness Kit

Battle Sisters Kit

Seraphim Kit

Dominion/Retributors Kit

Special Characters

Exorcist Kit

Celestian Kit

 

That is around the DG size release, and will make my wallet empty.

I think points changes will be a big thing. I'm really happy that my favorite weapon, Inferno Pistols, are only 9 points now. I think our models who can take two should get the lightning claw discount and only pay 13 points for them both. I don't really think we could use anything other than a flyer in terms of new units. I suppose they could go crazy and make Seraphim into fly hunters, like how Dawneagle jetbikes are.

I think multi-melta should be 15 points.

I would like a Order, or stratagem that allows us to ignore the heavy weapons penatly. I think one of the ORDERs will end up being the assault one. Where you treat rapid fire as Assault, and Heavy doesn't the penalty to move unless they advance.

But really, the line up we have updated, plus maybe one or two new models, and it is a great force. Rules is what we need alongside some beautiful plastics. The plastics will make things easier, depending on whats in the kit.

I'm thinking one of each heavy and special weapon, and 10x Bolters in the battle sisters kit. I can also see them doing the kits like Custodes, with the Battle Sister kit allowing you to build the generic special characters, rather than clamshells like DG.

From there, I think the Retributors and Dominion squads will be a dual kit, with two of each weapon, hopefully not one of each.

I think they will make a plastic Exorcist kit.

 

Basically, if they make these kits in plastic, I will buy and buy and buy:

Cannoness Kit

Battle Sisters Kit

Seraphim Kit

Dominion/Retributors Kit

Special Characters

Exorcist Kit

Celestian Kit

 

That is around the DG size release, and will make my wallet empty.

It would be incredibly weird to release a seperate kit for celestians and  they're straight up not doing a seperate kit for dominions because of how nonsensical that would be, retributors could happen but without more options it would be a pretty sparse little box, especially compared to SM dev squads.

 

If they released a 5 girl SoB box with 2 of every special a heavy bolter and a Multimelta, that would be enough(if a bit frustrating). I'd rather have to buy an excessive number of BSS kits and have new stuff in the army than have a box that's battle sisters but with TWO multimeltas!.

I only think celestians because they did custodian guard and Wardens, which is one extra weapon, but they look different in detail. I can see them doing the same. I would also be okay with a single box that makes dominions, Retributors, Battle Sisters and Celestians(including hospitalers and imagifiers optionally), then a box for Seraphims, a plastic exorcist, and a clamshell character or two. I was mostly trying to figure out based on the DG, Morathi, and Custodes releases how they like to do things now. I would also love it to be condensed into mostly one box, so I can order 30 of that box, and fiddle everything between them as I like. I buy four boxes, I get two sister squads and a dominion/retributor squad magnetized between the weapons, with another dominion/retributor that I can split and use as the heavy/specials in my sister squad. Works for me.

 

The fact that it isn't happening until 2019 makes me think 3 or 4 kits as opposed to one though.

 

It would be incredibly weird to release a seperate kit for celestians and  they're straight up not doing a seperate kit for dominions because of how nonsensical that would be, retributors could happen but without more options it would be a pretty sparse little box, especially compared to SM dev squads.

 

If they released a 5 girl SoB box with 2 of every special a heavy bolter and a Multimelta, that would be enough(if a bit frustrating). I'd rather have to buy an excessive number of BSS kits and have new stuff in the army than have a box that's battle sisters but with TWO multimeltas!.

 

 

I agree with ERJAK. Look at the Militarum Tempestus box. It has everything in it and the more you buy the better it works out for your army. Say you want a Retributor squad with four multi-meltas.  All you need is four boxes of five girls a box. This gives you 20 girls 4 with the multi-meltas, 12 with bolters or other special weapons and 4 sister superiors to give different load-outs. I really hope they go this route. These are battle nuns. Their armour should not be too embellished. Simple Fluers will suffice. We wouldn't want any of our sisters to be tempted by the lord of excess.

 

I don't think sisters need bike tbh. The army is designed to have bodies on the ground which is great in 8th ed. An update to the existing models in plastic. If we get our entire current line in plastic that would be amazing! It only requires a few molds. 

 

Sisters of Battle Box (5-sisters): Can be made into celestians, battle sisters, retributor and dominion squads.

Seraphim Squad: the poses will be a lot different and so are most of the weapons

Cannoness and other characters: This can easily be the box that houses all the other special characters. 

Special Characters: We already have both girls in plastic

Plastic up the penitent engine and the repentia squad and I think that does it

 

A kit for the Repressor would be cool but that is Forgeworld and we already have decent options for this conversion.

 

The main thing I would want is a 5-girl and 10-girl box that is designed like the Militarum Tempestus. It is one of the best boxes in the game imho.

There is a possibility that they could make a Celestians box with parts to make the various minor characters: Dialogus, Hospitaller, Imagifer, maybe a “Lieutenant” (is this what people envisage when they mention a “Palatine”?). The non-Militant characters could easily be explained as having been issued power armour for frontline duties.

 

That might mean that GW will drop the minimum squad size for Celestians to 3, as they’ve done with GK Paladins and Custodes; alternatively, they could put the parts for a 5th type of Character in the box (Tech-Sister??), so you don’t have leftover bodies.

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