domsto Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 I think every Player has Models in his Collection he never plays either because they are bad or they do not suit there playstyle So tell me which units you barely touch and why For myself they whould be: Ratlings Chimeras Hydras Deathstrike Valkyries Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Ogryns - I have 3 metals and dont want to use them cause i will scratch the paint. Also they are not great ratlings - old metals ones, don't like the sculpts Chimeras - meh for points, prefer my trio of hellhounds sentinels - armoured lascannon sentinels don't do much Shadowsword - transporting the thing is hard! lascannon sabre platforms - 60 points is waaaay to pricy for what they do valkyrie - not great and is a pain to transport Storm troopers - I like my swarm of guardsmens and a 5 man scion squad with special weapons is the same price is 6 mortars at least (though i do miss using them) Meltgun guardsmen - just nope, too squishy and short ranged vanquisher russ - enough said, it is a vanquisher, not like the days of my 7th edition tank commander with imperial armour beast hunter shells (72" S8 AP2 small blast, instant death. if anyone was curious) converted destroyer tank hunter - grinding advance russes killed this as an option, which is a shame. Mine is a russ with a volcano cannon in the hull think those are the main ones Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Valkyries are no issue to transport if you don’t glue on the wings, and get the battlefoam that holds two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halfpint100 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Valkyries are no issue to transport if you don’t glue on the wings, and get the battlefoam that holds two. my much younger self was not so intelligent as to do this Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Mine either, so I ripped the wings off, filed down all the mangled plastic, added magnets, and painted over it. Can't tell now. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043171 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Ogryns - I have 3 metals and dont want to use them cause i will scratch the paint. Also they are not great ratlings - old metals ones, don't like the sculpts Chimeras - meh for points, prefer my trio of hellhounds sentinels - armoured lascannon sentinels don't do much Shadowsword - transporting the thing is hard! lascannon sabre platforms - 60 points is waaaay to pricy for what they do valkyrie - not great and is a pain to transport Storm troopers - I like my swarm of guardsmens and a 5 man scion squad with special weapons is the same price is 6 mortars at least (though i do miss using them) Meltgun guardsmen - just nope, too squishy and short ranged vanquisher russ - enough said, it is a vanquisher, not like the days of my 7th edition tank commander with imperial armour beast hunter shells (72" S8 AP2 small blast, instant death. if anyone was curious) converted destroyer tank hunter - grinding advance russes killed this as an option, which is a shame. Mine is a russ with a volcano cannon in the hull think those are the main ones But isn't the damage the Shadowsword can do worth the transport hardships on all other Points i can understand you the Vanquisher and Melta Troops is a real shame they never see the Table because they are so bad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043285 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Ogryns and ratlings – i'm not a racist but... well... uh... errr... i don't like them. armoured sentinels – the 8th edition's move and shoot rule killed them meltagun guardsmen/veterans – this one is obvious comissars – they are just FAQed up wyverns – killed by removing ignores cover and mortar HWS is better deal now. valkyrie – got 3 vendettas and a vulture, that's why taurox – because model's design is something i can't stand. any model with autocannons (Exterminators especially) – do not do the job for their price anymore Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviler Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 My chimeras and melta vets have languished recently. As you said the vanquishers are pants now. I recently chopped one about and made it a 3 HB punisher. Now it sees some table time. Valkyrie and vendettas have been sitting one shelf to, until last night when I used a Valkyrie again as a transport for my 10 man crusader unit with priest and psyker. It allows you to pull off an easy first turn charge with the grav chute insertion rule. Which worked a charm. Though the actual firepower of the Valkyrie was massively underwhelming for points it’s transport ability was great. I’m so out of practice with it I need to learn to keep it alive a bit longer for redeployment in later turns. But to do that, you need first turn. Going to give it a couple more games to test it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043328 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Valkyrie and vendettas have been sitting one shelf to You gotta try using the birds with Tallarn doctrine. Don't forget to laugh maniacally show the joy of being at the Emperor's service. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Valkyrie and vendettas have been sitting one shelf to You gotta try using the birds with Tallarn doctrine. Don't forget to laugh maniacally show the joy of being at the Emperor's service. Flyers don't get the regimental Doctrin because they are not part of a Regiment. They are Aeronautica Imperialis Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043350 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamansky Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Oops. Used them mostly as elysian. forgot about their non-regimental nature Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reviler Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 That’s the problem with them tbh. I use the MMP on them as they are assault weapons and don’t suffer the -1 to hit. I can only see them as a delivery system for assault units like bullgryns or crusaders for a first turn charge and putting pressure on early. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 There are some similarities in all the posts Nobody of us seems to think Valkyries,Chimeras,Melta troops are worth taking I don't like Valkyries to They are crappy at shooting and too expensive for just being a delivery system as Reviler said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spafe Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 My veterans have been downgraded to regular troops now... I still use the models but not as vets... Guess that counts. I must be an odd duck then as I'm loving the use of my 3 chrimeras, 10 ratlings and sentinels (armoured and scout). I'm also looking forward to using my metal ogyrns once I get them painted (4 or 5 of them, cant remember how many I have). That said we don't play in a very competitive environment at all, so I'm using fun stuff that I want to use, rather than spending ages comparing against other things I could take (have russes, bassies, griffons, HWS as my heavy slots for example.. will happily mix and match different stuff each game, similar for all slots bar FA, where I have only a single HH, 3 scouts and 2 armoured sents, so that area is kinda fixed). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
our_baz Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 My Plasma Scions (they are cursed!), been shelved after two games of rolling 1's with them. Armoured Sentinels, just meh, 5's to hit after moving to shoot a autocannon, no thanks. My Melta Vets, too expensive. Wyrdvane Psykers. I love psykers, but rules for these guys.....:( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5043495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 My Plasma Scions (they are cursed!), been shelved after two games of rolling 1's with them. Armoured Sentinels, just meh, 5's to hit after moving to shoot a autocannon, no thanks. My Melta Vets, too expensive. Wyrdvane Psykers. I love psykers, but rules for these guys..... No Tempestor Prime near for a Reroll 1s? Because they can make a lot of Damage if the Dice don't betray you Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I think it's fair to separate this in two parts: units that are so bad they are effectively unplayable and units that are bad, but still playable if you really want. After all, AM can accommodate some sub-par stuff if the rest of the army is good. So, never use due to being basically unplayable: - Wyrdwanes - Ogryns - Master of Ordnance - Commissars - Conscripts - Servitors & Enginseer - most LR variants - Deathstrike - Armoured Sentinels - 50% named characters - 80% FW stuff Units that are really bad, but can still be played (and/or still have a niche against certain opponents): - Wyverns - Hydras - Veterans - Command squads - Astropaths - Ratlings - All Heavy weapons squads except mortars and heavy bolters - Taurox - Bane Wolf - Valkyries - 50% super-heavies - 10% additional FW stuff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 I think it's fair to separate this in two parts: units that are so bad they are effectively unplayable and units that are bad, but still playable if you really want. After all, AM can accommodate some sub-par stuff if the rest of the army is good. So, never use due to being basically unplayable: - Wyrdwanes - Ogryns - Master of Ordnance - Commissars - Conscripts - Servitors & Enginseer - most LR variants - Deathstrike - Armoured Sentinels - 50% named characters - 80% FW stuff Units that are really bad, but can still be played (and/or still have a niche against certain opponents): - Wyverns - Hydras - Veterans - Command squads - Astropaths - Ratlings - All Heavy weapons squads except mortars and heavy bolters - Taurox - Bane Wolf - Valkyries - 50% super-heavies - 10% additional FW stuff Thats a long List but what are your problems with HWT? I like them all because thanks to Cadia reroll all faild hit on LasCannons is really great Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Heavy weapon squads, not teams. I.e. as individual units. Too fragile and expensive to be good except with the two cheapest (and, incidentally, most effective) weapons. As Teams, hidden in infantry squads, lascannons are very fine with Cadia of course. And yes, that is a long list. Sadly 'new GW' has not improved much in terms of internal codex balance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
our_baz Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 My Plasma Scions (they are cursed!), been shelved after two games of rolling 1's with them. Armoured Sentinels, just meh, 5's to hit after moving to shoot a autocannon, no thanks. My Melta Vets, too expensive. Wyrdvane Psykers. I love psykers, but rules for these guys.....:( No Tempestor Prime near for a Reroll 1s?Because they can make a lot of Damage if the Dice don't betray you:D That is true, for me the dice gods have cursed these guys to roll natural 1's and 2's Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044089 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 Heavy weapon squads, not teams. I.e. as individual units. Too fragile and expensive to be good except with the two cheapest (and, incidentally, most effective) weapons. As Teams, hidden in infantry squads, lascannons are very fine with Cadia of course. And yes, that is a long list. Sadly 'new GW' has not improved much in terms of internal codex balance. I am of a complete opposite opinion I dont like playing heavy weapons in Squads, they always move around and so the Heavys would only hit on 5s And if i play them in a separate unit they never move at all and can maximize the Cadia doctrine. But i have to admit you right about the internal balance of the Codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044097 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Well if you field 3x lascannons alone, you seem to be doing your opponent a favour: sinking a relatively high amount of points in an incredibly squishy unit. At T3 W2 sv4+ (assuming cover) and no ablative wounds, it takes really nothing to destroy such a squad. If you go first you will fire them once, but they'll be auto-dead then anyway. I can't find any way to make them worth it. If you take Cadian infantry and move them, you are playing them wrong their doctrine is meant for (super-boring, but effective) static gunlines. That's why I think a lascannon team (plus a plasma guy) in a Cadian infantry squad is good. I often field a basic Cadian battalion of 2x officers and 3x of those, and they are excellent to hold my deployment zone and provide fire support. When I want to move my squads around (i.e. always) I go Catachan, Krieg, or Tallarn. And yes, in those cases no hwt in the squads, but no separate hws either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withershadow Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 That is such a hilarious oversimplification, it leads me to think there is more statistical analysis going on than actual games. Movement is required for all objective-bases games and ironically, foot Infantry is our speediest option. You won’t be moving every squad every turn, but to suggest the opposite extreme is equally ludicrous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I thought the emoticon was enough to make it clear to most people that I was not entirely serious, and that yes, this whole thread is obviously an oversimplification. Better specify it before someone reminds of that one time when his servitor killed a 1-w daemon prince. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
librisrouge Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 I miss fielding my poor LR Exterminators. I used to put them to work but they’re pretty awful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345690-units-you-never-use/#findComment-5044667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.