Imperial Knights House Traits & Stratagems

[hermanista]

True,

 

I wonder of subconsciously I filtered out Castellans as the GT is now 1750, making them too expensive in my mind.

 

Which is a crazy thing to say when discussing knights really, lol

[PiñaColada]

House Raven only seems to effect Armigers, as the bigger Knights have the Super-Heavy Walker keyword while Armigers don’t. Looks like Ravens run the Mini-Mechs.

 

SJ

That's not strictly true though because even with super heavy walkers they still can't advance and fire heavy weapons, can they? That being said, it still does feel more useful for armigers..

 

Also, yeah hermanista, maybe 1750 is too restrictive for the castellans. If the 600 point rumour is true that's not too bad but I get the feeeling that if you deck them out you probably won't have much more than 1000 points for the rest of your army..

[jeffersonian000]

Super-Heavy Walker keyword says the unit can move and shoot Heavy weapons without penalty.

 

SJ

[CommodusXIII]

Super-Heavy Walker keyword says the unit can move and shoot Heavy weapons without penalty.

 

SJ

Move, yes. But that keyword doesn't affect shooting after advancing.

[BassWave]

Read the post again. It says heavy weapons are treated as assault weapons. Furthermore it says assault weapons under house raven ignore the penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons.

 

This allows for a very maneuverable knight house if true.

[CommodusXIII]

Read the post again. It says heavy weapons are treated as assault weapons. Furthermore it says assault weapons under house raven ignore the penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons.

 

This allows for a very maneuverable knight house if true.

Yes, I get that. I was replying to jeffersonian, not the referenced stratagem.

[BassWave]

I was also responding to jeffersonian.

[PiñaColada]

Read the post again. It says heavy weapons are treated as assault weapons. Furthermore it says assault weapons under house raven ignore the penalty for advancing and firing assault weapons.

 

This allows for a very maneuverable knight house if true.

It's worth noting that the house raven trait was revealed the first aticle with just the 3 traits (

In that article the house raven trait was phrased differently. 

 

The newer article with all the traits (https://spikeybits.com/2018/05/6-new-knight-house-rules-spotted-rumors.html)

 

 

Newer article:When they make Advance moves, treat Heavy weapons as Assault weapons. 

Old article: Raven advance & shoot with no penaly, heavy weap become assault type. 

 

The newer one is probably right because the old one seems to indicate house raven could advance and fire heavy weapons with no penalties. But who knows? 

[Mushkilla]

Yeah the raven trait would allow you to advance and fire heavy weapons which you couldn't advance and fire before. In addition if it's worded like viorla you can advance and shoot those heavy weapons without any penalties.

 

[Karhedron]

 

 

mmm not overly impressed with the Terryn one.

Wow, I'm the complete opposite. Terryn seems really good to me. An extra d6 advance or charge on armigers makes those suckers quick.

 

Oh, forgot it applies to Armigers too, that actually does change a few things

 

Terryn looks promising on the larger Knights too. Even a Crusader will struggle to earn its points back over a game if it is just shooting. The big Knights really need to be shooting, charging into CC to either squish stuff (or at least tie it up) and then withdrawing to rinse and repeat in the next turn. Armigers will benefit from the +D6" to Advance but the big Knights will benefit from the +D6" to Charge. Increasing their threat range is a big deal and makes T1 charges possible. I wonder if they will be able to declare charges on targets outside 12"? (Probably too much to ask for).

[Midlight]

 

 

 

mmm not overly impressed with the Terryn one.

Wow, I'm the complete opposite. Terryn seems really good to me. An extra d6 advance or charge on armigers makes those suckers quick.

 

Oh, forgot it applies to Armigers too, that actually does change a few things

 

Terryn looks promising on the larger Knights too. Even a Crusader will struggle to earn its points back over a game if it is just shooting. The big Knights really need to be shooting, charging into CC to either squish stuff (or at least tie it up) and then withdrawing to rinse and repeat in the next turn. Armigers will benefit from the +D6" to Advance but the big Knights will benefit from the +D6" to Charge. Increasing their threat range is a big deal and makes T1 charges possible. I wonder if they will be able to declare charges on targets outside 12"? (Probably too much to ask for).

 

 

I think a question that needs to be answered first is;

Is it a straight up extra D6 or is it a roll 2 and pick the highest type deal?

[Mushkilla]

Yeah an extra d6 for advance and charge seems really strong compared to the other house rules.

[PiñaColada]

I  think it's an extra d6. Roll two and pick the highest seems pretty underwhelming to me. It's just a few models that get to benefit and probably not all of them every turn so an extra d6 wouldn't be broken at all in my opinion.

[Karhedron]

I  think it's an extra d6. Roll two and pick the highest seems pretty underwhelming to me. It's just a few models that get to benefit and probably not all of them every turn so an extra d6 wouldn't be broken at all in my opinion.

I agree, picking the highest would be very underwhleming. Remember even Knights cannot Advance and Charge in the same turn so a model will only ever be able to benefit from half the trait at a time. Also the Advancing half will really only benefit Armigers as most other Knights are armed with Heavy weapons.

 

Terryn looks useful but definitely not OP.

[hermanista]

Unless there are some awesome relics/strats for the other houses, I think I'll likely be going house Vulker.

 

For my standard rough list, I think it's probably going to be my most useful.

[Mushkilla]

I think it's an extra d6. Roll two and pick the highest seems pretty underwhelming to me. It's just a few models that get to benefit and probably not all of them every turn so an extra d6 wouldn't be broken at all in my opinion.

Nowhere near as underwhelming 6+++ against mortal wounds.

 

I think Terryn would still be good if it was re-roll charges and advance. Taranis on the other hand I'm just hoping they have an amazing relic, trait and stratagem. Cause their trait is just a dud.

 

Raven, Vulker, Terryn and Hawkshroud are the stand out ones for me.

[Frostglaive]

Unless the strats, relics and traits change things up enough, I think I'll be sticking with Raven or Hawkshroud. Advancing and firing for Raven is perfect for me, and what is essentially a Valhallan Knight is just too funny. Plus that'd save me a CP for the inevitable Machine Spirit Resurgent strat I'll have to use (if it doesn't blow up Turn 1 that is...).

[CommodusXIII]

Cadmus, Hawkshroud, or Krast for me.  Hawkshroud for usefulness, Cadmus or Krast for fluff purposes.

[hermanista]

2 cadmus Lancers and a valiant will probably be a good laugh too

[Mushkilla]

Cadmus is re-rolls to wound in melee right? Do we know if the valiant had melee options outside of titanic feet (I imagine titanic feet might get changed as it seems to make the other melee weapons a lot less interesting outside of taking down big things).

[Bluflash]

Can anyone sell me on Lancers vs Atropos as currently statted? A few of you have mentioned you like the Lancers, so what am I missing?

 

4 S14 AP-4 D6 rerolling hits on a charge with a 4++ Fight/5++ Shooting and a rather limited shock blast shooting attack

vs.

4 S14 AP-4 D6 rerolling hits and wounds against monster, vehicle, or building with a 4++ Shooting/5++ Fight and some measure of shooting with +1 to shoot titanic.

To me, thats 75pts for a more useful invul save, a better melee against the big things, and some measure of shooting as well.

Thoughts?

[hermanista]

Can anyone sell me on Lancers vs Atropos as currently statted? A few of you have mentioned you like the Lancers, so what am I missing?

 

4 S14 AP-4 D6 rerolling hits on a charge with a 4++ Fight/5++ Shooting and a rather limited shock blast shooting attack

vs.

4 S14 AP-4 D6 rerolling hits and wounds against monster, vehicle, or building with a 4++ Shooting/5++ Fight and some measure of shooting with +1 to shoot titanic.

 

To me, thats 75pts for a more useful invul save, a better melee against the big things, and some measure of shooting as well.

Thoughts?

 

It looks cooler?

[CommodusXIII]

I fight a lot of Titanic units, where the Lancer really shines.  I've never used an Atropos, though, as the Mechanicus Knights don't really do it for me.

[Shinespider]

Sorry if I missed this - is there any notion, so far as we know, of a Questor Mechanicus / Questor Imperialis split?

[Stray]

Can anyone sell me on Lancers vs Atropos as currently statted? A few of you have mentioned you like the Lancers, so what am I missing?

 

4 S14 AP-4 D6 rerolling hits on a charge with a 4++ Fight/5++ Shooting and a rather limited shock blast shooting attack

vs.

4 S14 AP-4 D6 rerolling hits and wounds against monster, vehicle, or building with a 4++ Shooting/5++ Fight and some measure of shooting with +1 to shoot titanic.

 

To me, thats 75pts for a more useful invul save, a better melee against the big things, and some measure of shooting as well.

Thoughts?

 

I can help you out here I think.

 

Both are great at what they do, but neither are what I'd describe as a 'general use' Knight. I field them when I'm facing things that warrant it, which generally is multiple big juicy targets. They are both utterly wasted in terms of points efficiency against chaff and other small stuff.

 

Here's some mathhammer comparing the two:

 

 

A Land Raider is the target in both examples. T8, 2+, 16 wounds.

 

Lancer (On the Charge) - 4 Attacks, S14, AP-4, 6 Damage - Average of 12 wounds inflicted.

Atrapos Lascutter - 4 Attacks, S14, AP-4, 6 Damage - Average of 16 wounds inflicted (Due to re-rolling of hit and wound rolls ability)

 

 

You essentially get quite a bit more surviability in melee with the Lancer, but a very weak shooting attack - you want it in combat constantly.

The Atrapos is far more useful outside of close combat, and does more damage in CC than the Lancer against worthwhile targets. It's a little more robust when getting into combat too with a better save against shooting. It's shooting is pretty swingy, but when it does go off, it hurts a lot.

 

The numbers land on the Atrapos side, BUT you have to remember that the Atrapos is also the most expensive Knight currently in the game, outside of the Porphyron. The Lancer on the other hand, is far easier to field costing the best part of 100 points less (480 vs 555).

 

Really for me, that's what it comes down to. You want both against the same type of targets, so which can you afford in your list? If you can afford to take the Atrapos, yes, it's 'better' in most situations. But you could get potentially a whole extra unit of 'something' for the points difference.