Where Exactly Does Terminator Height Come From?

[karden00]

...maybe the people who thought up TDA were not quite aware of the fact that for decades afterwards thousands of people would chew into just how well thought out the idea was through this as yet unimagined thing called the internet .....

Maybe it was just cool to a bunch of 20something year olds a fair amount of years ago...

[Zuvassin]

What makes the TDA design (from a 'realistic' POV) even worse is when you realize the torso is designed in a way that the Marine has to be pitched forward inside it.

 

The massive venting on the back implies the space in the back 1/3rd or so is taken up by equipment (and in the original Termie models those vents were recessed into the body, rather than flat with the surface in modern kits). That means the Marine inside probably isn't hunched over, as his torso likely aligns directly with where the helmet is at, but on the other hand it means his body is forward of where the arms attach.

 

But as others have said, Rule of Cool trumps all. Plus, in a universe where mankind relies on a dead/dying psyker-god to hold back an extra-dimensional hell-universe fueled by the souls of the living in this universe, and ruled by sentient whirlpools worshipped as gods in this universe, while also being beset by Space Robo-Pharoahs, Space Locusts, Space LOTR Baddies, and Space Union of Soviet Socialist Camels, whilst being defended against said threats by Post-human Vikings, Romans, Catholic Monks, and Renaissance Vampires,  the apparent physical impracticality of a particular piece of wargear is probably not that immersion-shattering for most people.

[Jackalwolf]

I'd still wear it.

[jeffersonian000]

GK TDA is fairly proportional to the post-human Astartes frame, so at least there’s that.

 

SJ

[Stoic Raptor]

The massive venting on the back implies the space in the back 1/3rd or so is taken up by equipment (and in the original Termie models those vents were recessed into the body, rather than flat with the surface in modern kits). 

 

They're basically radiators - the rest of the cooling apparatus doesn't necessarily need to be behind the heat exchanger plate.

 

But yes, your second point trumps all - in the midst of all of the far-out stuff that we can't even begin to analyze, making real sense of anything is kind of a folly.

[Ishagu]

Tartaros Termies seem a lot more functional than the other patters.

[Danny Cyanide]

I found a good cut away drawing of how it could work on Deviant art that makes it look fairly plausible:

 

Link to credit the artist:

https://penuser.deviantart.com/art/Sketch-40K-Terminator-Cross-section-636830438

 

[Evil Eye]

That's a hell of a piece of artwork. I do love cutaways.

 

With regards to the size of Terminators (and Space Marines in general) I've always found it best to use the old reliable "Everything is canon, nothing is true" caveat. Almost all 40K fluff is myth and legend rather than hard "fact", written by different entities from different perspectives, and as such it's entirely possible that the exact size of any given object/entity will be exaggerated or otherwise misjudged for dramatic effect (both IRL and in universe).

 

Obviously the models aren't going to be 100% scale accurate anyway, because wargaming models (even historical ones) almost never are. If you made Space Marines true scale, and then made their transports sized such that they could actually fit into them, then the basic Rhino would be impractically huge.

 

Also, as has been mentioned, rule of cool trumps all.

[Arkangilos]

The Black Carapace is just a sheet of bio-plastic that allows for more mounting points to place additional neural links, which normally require mounting on bone. Having a Black Carapace just means more neural links, it doesn’t actually do anything on its own. While current lore tells us that the Black Carapace allows the Astartes the wear his PA like a second skin, much older lore actually explain how the Black Carapace did so ... which is via mounting more neural links. An Astartes is covered in neural links, more so than most Admech Adepts.

 

Sororitas, by the way, do not use neural links. Their PA is designed better. ;)

 

SJ

Their power armor may not require it, but it's also not as good, nor does it have the same advanced systems.

[jeffersonian000]

 

The Black Carapace is just a sheet of bio-plastic that allows for more mounting points to place additional neural links, which normally require mounting on bone. Having a Black Carapace just means more neural links, it doesn’t actually do anything on its own. While current lore tells us that the Black Carapace allows the Astartes the wear his PA like a second skin, much older lore actually explain how the Black Carapace did so ... which is via mounting more neural links. An Astartes is covered in neural links, more so than most Admech Adepts.

 

Sororitas, by the way, do not use neural links. Their PA is designed better. ;)

 

SJ

Their power armor may not require it, but it's also not as good, nor does it have the same advanced systems.

Kind of. 40k PA is a non-STC exo-suit derived from generations of previous suits that date back to before the Golden Age of Technology. The version Astartes wear is designed to take the abuse an Astartes will put it through, to be easily repaired, and to be easy to maintain by non-technically literate personnel. The version Sororitas wear is primarily ceremonial yet still battle ready, easy to maintain by technically literate personnel, yet probably not as easy to repair without a dedicated fabrication facility. There is very little on Sororitas PA as opposed to Astartes PA, which there are volumes covering the different armor marks, yet there is enough to point to Sororitas PA being a much more recent and a very advanced design that is a very light version of Astartes Artificer Armor, with much lighter ceramite and minimal support systems. The Astartes version of Sororitas PA is worn by heroes and officers of renowned.

 

Just saying.

 

As a point of comparison, Inquisitors have been shown in illustrations to wear PA variants ranging from Astartes to Sororitas, and with custom suits that fall somewhere in between. Some Inquisitors have the neural links to run their PA, while others have PA that do not require links. Which is to say, Astartes PA is on the lower end of the technology scale, while Sororitas style PA is on the more advanced side of the scale.

 

SJ

[Ishagu]

Sororitas style PA is less advances. It offers good protection but no enhancement of strength or mobility.

[Volt]

Sororitas style PA is less advances. It offers good protection but no enhancement of strength or mobility.

Per Deathwatch and the frequency of dying to "bolt to the face" in the novels, it's also fairly less protective. 

[jeffersonian000]

You are confusing “robust” with “advanced”. Astartes armor is thick, can take a beating, and was designed to be massed produced. Sororitas armor is svelte, agile, and custom crafted specifically for them. Sororitas PA is far more advanced than Astartes PA, it’s just not build to be a walking tank a demigod Uberchild can’t accidentally break. The Astartes version of Sororitas PA is Artificer Armor, which is the panicle of Astartes advanced PA.

 

SJ

[Volt]

You are confusing “robust” with “advanced”. Astartes armor is thick, can take a beating, and was designed to be massed produced. Sororitas armor is svelte, agile, and custom crafted specifically for them. Sororitas PA is far more advanced than Astartes PA, it’s just not build to be a walking tank a demigod Uberchild can’t accidentally break. The Astartes version of Sororitas PA is Artificer Armor, which is the panicle of Astartes advanced PA.

 

SJ

Except it isn't more advanced because it's inferior in literally every way. It doesn't even feature more advanced technology. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

You are confusing “robust” with “advanced”. Astartes armor is thick, can take a beating, and was designed to be massed produced. Sororitas armor is svelte, agile, and custom crafted specifically for them. Sororitas PA is far more advanced than Astartes PA, it’s just not build to be a walking tank a demigod Uberchild can’t accidentally break. The Astartes version of Sororitas PA is Artificer Armor, which is the panicle of Astartes advanced PA.

 

SJ

 

And you could be confusing "slim" with "advanced". Sure, it was developed more recently, but in 40k, older pretty much always means more advanced. Astartes power armour was developed in projects overseen by the Emperor Himself, when the Imperium was at the height of its power, with the full backing of the Mechanicus behind it. Sororitas armour was developed when the Imperium was basically in full-fledged civil war. You seem to be dismissing Astartes power armour as just being built with a focus purely on survivability, nothing more. We know that's not the case, though.

[Volt]

 

You are confusing “robust” with “advanced”. Astartes armor is thick, can take a beating, and was designed to be massed produced. Sororitas armor is svelte, agile, and custom crafted specifically for them. Sororitas PA is far more advanced than Astartes PA, it’s just not build to be a walking tank a demigod Uberchild can’t accidentally break. The Astartes version of Sororitas PA is Artificer Armor, which is the panicle of Astartes advanced PA.

 

SJ

 

And you could be confusing "slim" with "advanced". Sure, it was developed more recently, but in 40k, older pretty much always means more advanced. Astartes power armour was developed in projects overseen by the Emperor Himself, when the Imperium was at the height of its power, with the full backing of the Mechanicus behind it. Sororitas armour was developed when the Imperium was basically in full-fledged civil war. You seem to be dismissing Astartes power armour as just being built with a focus purely on survivability, nothing more. We know that's not the case, though.

 

Not to mention that Corvus armor is just as agile, while packing an enhanced sensor package superior to other power armor marks.

[Panzer]

You are confusing “robust” with “advanced”. Astartes armor is thick, can take a beating, and was designed to be massed produced. Sororitas armor is svelte, agile, and custom crafted specifically for them. Sororitas PA is far more advanced than Astartes PA, it’s just not build to be a walking tank a demigod Uberchild can’t accidentally break. The Astartes version of Sororitas PA is Artificer Armor, which is the panicle of Astartes advanced PA.

 

SJ

 

Except that actual Artificer Armor isn't just pretty, it's also more durable. It even used to have a 2+ armor save in the rules.

[Lord_Caerolion]

And that the primary reason that MkIV armour started dropping out of use was that it was so advanced and relied on very particular parts, material, and technology that wasn't readily available during the Heresy.

[Brother Casman]

So, we're done discussing terminator armour, then?

[bluntblade]

I'm not.

 

A certain amount of the perception of Terminators being waaay taller than the average marine might be down to certain characters who wear it. Some of the most iconic TDA pics feature Abaddon and Tyberos, both of whom we know to be massive even for space marines and are depicted as such.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I mean, to me the height thing isn't particularly the issue, it's the fact that they're almost half-again as wide as they are out of the armour. The only way for their arms to be where some models and artwork have them is for them to be entirely detached.

[helterskelter]

I'm not.

 

A certain amount of the perception of Terminators being waaay taller than the average marine might be down to certain characters who wear it. Some of the most iconic TDA pics feature Abaddon and Tyberos, both of whom we know to be massive even for space marines and are depicted as such.

I would like to see accurately proportioned abby and tyberos have a crack at each other.

 

Related terminator armour note, saturnyne seems like a more than substantial variant/potentially larger than the other suit types?

[Bryan Blaire]

I mean, to me the height thing isn't particularly the issue, it's the fact that they're almost half-again as wide as they are out of the armour. The only way for their arms to be where some models and artwork have them is for them to be entirely detached.

Sounds like a perfect reason for Iron Hands to have a lot of Terminators...

[Mostwanted]

There is a mix of old fluff saying that the armour was just bigger or that the Astartes kept getting bigger as they got older so that veterens were enormous, and of course you only give TDA to veterens so it had to be bigger.

 

Newer stuff suggests that Astartes vary in size as much as humans do so it doesn’t really make sense anymore, just one of those things.

I think the British Marines used to have a 6ft height minimum (and I’ve heard they still do), so you could just make it part of your head-canon that the Astartes do something like that. Whatever works for you.

There is a height limit for Royal Marines but it's not anywhere near 6ft. We did get some short guys in there. From an ex Royal.