Why no Dreadnaught in Death Guard codex?

[Fhanados]

I've had a few games recently where I ran 2 Helbrutes with Multimelta and Helbrute fist. I won't bother posting lists since they were all fairly different and different sized games as well, but the Helbrutes preformed consistently throughout. Consistently mediocre but still consistent.

 

I found them the most useful in smaller games where big guns are less prevalent. I faced an Astra Militarum army that leaned heavily on Wyverns and mortar teams to do the heavy lifting so my Helbrutes survived a long time, but they ultimately died. In another game against the same player he brought some Sisters of Battle with Exorcist tanks alongside the Guard and both Brutes were gone Turn 3.

 

A single Multimelta shot doesn't do a lot. It's just too swingy. One shooting phase I rolled well and done 11 wounds to a tank (can't remember which) but if he passed a save, or I rolled bad for damage then it was a total waste. With only 4 attacks in combat I was killing 2-3 guardsmen or sisters per round. Not nearly enough to have any impact.

 

That all said, my Helbrutes ran distraction quite well. They were (mostly) unsupported and soaked up a decent amount of gunfire. If I could build them from scratch I'd probably go for twin lascannons instead of Multimelta, and Power Scourge instead of Fist. Yes it's more expensive, but it would actually give them a better chance to do damage in shooting and melee. 

 

My main criticism about the Brute is that for the role they seem best for (distraction carnifex) a Bloat Drone does it better. 

[Bulwyf]

I love Helbrutes/Dreads in any list I run. We get so much use out of the ignore heavy rule.

[BlackTriton]

I was considering some helbrute with twin heavy bolters and missile launcher for killing the hordes of chaff I see at a reasonable price on a tough platform.

Two of them should pair well with a trio of drones.

[bozo69pd]

Because the Plague Marines don't stay down if they live. They just regenerate and get back up next week. Seriously, happens in the fluff.

[Plague _Lord]

I'm thinking of using 2 variants in a future list:

 

1) Twin Heavy bolter and power scourge. It's cheap, moderately tough and can potentially be devastating. 12 heavy bolter shots with the stratagem can delete a unit from existance.  What I like about this units is it's cheapness and low threat rating for opponents. Noone will see the heavy bolter as more of threat than say a PBC or blight drone. I think the brute will be then ignored and when he get's into combat he will shine with 7 str 8 ap -2 dmg 2 attacks.

 

2) Plasma cannon and powersfist. This is the distracttion carnifex. It can potentially trigger another shooting phase from taking MWs from the plasma cannon. Seems worth a try.

[BlackTriton]

I like the plasma canon brute to, being one of the rare plasma that deal 1 damage instead of outright kill the user.

I am toying around heavy bolter missile launcher myself, its the cheapest helbrute and can make good use of his stratagem, since the closest target sbould be shaff anyway.

[Tokugawa]

I was considering some helbrute with twin heavy bolters and missile launcher for killing the hordes of chaff I see at a reasonable price on a tough platform.

Two of them should pair well with a trio of drones.

With -1 hit after move, absent of isv and fnp, is it straightly worse than a blight-hauler?

[BlackTriton]

It does not suffer the -1 to hit on the move thanks to Inexorable advance.

Its armor and survivability is weaker than a blight hauler, yes, but its also a lot cheaper and hit on 3+ with 6 +1D6 shots potentially twice.

 

Since all our hard hitting stuff is short range / melee, having ranged chaff remover sounds like good synergy.

 

I will proxy them next game, see if they make up the investment. I do not think they will get shot at much, since the guys are used to target drones.

[Plague _Lord]

Yeah like triton said the brute will be firing at 3+ bs while still moving the full 8. It's also better in close combat than the blighthauler.

I noticed in my last game, that my haulers didn't attract much fire - when there are bigger threats around a helbrute will not be targeted. Anyway if some antitank shoots at a 132pt dread and not at that daemonprince/blight drone comming their way then that's a win :)

[DominikB]

Would you be better off with a butcher cannon/auto cannon contemptor for about 50% more. Obviously no double tap, but 2s to hit for half his W

[Panzer]

12 Heavy Bolter shots aren't bad but also not super good. My unit of Bolter Inceptors (18 Heavy Bolter shots) often just barely manages to wipe a unit.

[Tokugawa]

Would you be better off with a butcher cannon/auto cannon contemptor for about 50% more. Obviously no double tap, but 2s to hit for half his W

Hellforged contemptor and Leviathan are superior, but not every local meta accept FW index units.

[Bulwyf]

Would you be better off with a butcher cannon/auto cannon contemptor for about 50% more. Obviously no double tap, but 2s to hit for half his W

 

Get a Levi with dual butcher array if you want pure dakka. 16 8 STR shots are going to wake someone up very quick on the other side of the table.

[Azekai]

I like contemptors with dual kheres. Short range, but since you can advance while still firing assault weapons, who cares? Really good at gunning down chaff.

[DominikB]

I like contemptors with dual kheres. Short range, but since you can advance while still firing assault weapons, who cares? Really good at gunning down chaff.

Heavy isnt it?

[Azekai]

 

I like contemptors with dual kheres. Short range, but since you can advance while still firing assault weapons, who cares? Really good at gunning down chaff.

Heavy isnt it?

Whoops! Yeah. Inexorable advance still helps but isn’t quite as cool as l thought in this case.