bluntblade Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I've been vocal about the fact that I want to love the Raven Guard and don't care at all for Gav Thorpe's HH work on them. Are the 40K books dealing with Shrike worth a look? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 The one where it switches between battle brother, captain and chapter master? It's terrible. Lots of 7th Ed formations named dropped, constantly refer to his lightning claws by the wrong name (made worse by the fact they also have to be name dropped instead of just saying 'his claws'), and the complete retcon/ignorance of kiavahr and deliverance and their environments Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5046122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 Damn :( I clearly need Wraight, MacNiven, French or AD-B to make me like the Ravens outside their Black Book appearances. I hope FW will expand on their Shattered Legion campaigns and show us the XIX doing their thing to the heretics. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5046153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 Yea at the moment there's gav thorpe for 30k and mostly George Mann for 40k. I think annandale has one or two as well. But for the shrike book in particular. I remember thinking I would have given anything to have had gav write it instead :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5046190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I admit to being a Gav Thorpe fan boy so I unashamedly admit I love his work on the Ravens. The Shrike stuff is boring. George Mann’s unkindness of ravens was an ok read, nothing special. What don’t you like about Gavs Ravens? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5046199 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluntblade Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 It's his writing in general that puts me off. I went into Raven's Flight so eager and came out deeply underwhelmed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5046293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuittzz Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Thought I'd come back to this thread as I have just completed it. While I agree that it's quite terrible I wouldn't go so far to say that the retcon is as bad as @Skimask suggests. Kiavahr has been considered a forge world with some areas/continents of forests and mountains as far back as I can remember, not fully a wasteland. But anyway. My main gripe is just how underpowered space marines seem to be in this book and I'm not looking for everyone to be Draigo mind. Across most sources you always here of how chapters or even companies have stopped entire Waaagghhhsss yet in here a squad of supposed veterans has trouble in dealing with encounters with what only seems to be 2 or 3 times their number in Orks. The fights are drawn out to create tension it seems but completely goes against what we know in the 40k universe i.e. a space marine competently dispatching a number of lesser Orks. Every description gives the Orks as standing head and shoulders above the marines but unless every single Ork encountered was an Ork Nob they shouldn't be should they? IIRC Orks are generally smaller and more squat than the average marine no? Perhaps I'm wrong here. There's a kind of hidden subplot that is constantly referenced throughout by means of flashbacks but if you have any sense you'll realise what it is by the first one. Anyway, for the actual story line......Read below if you want to save your money and time. Quite briefly, the story is broken up into 3 parts where Shrike is a veteran brother, captain, and finally Chapter Master. It follows his initial encounter with an Ork Warboss on a certain planet which is tied into subsequent encounters and battles with the same Warboss when he is a captain and finally Chapter Master. The recurring theme seems to be that Shrike was blinded by anger and individualism in his encounters with the Ork before the Chapter Master part of the story, where he suddenly understands that teamwork, yes teamwork, is required to bring the Warboss down. For a superhuman that is supposed to have greater cognitive abilities than what we perceive as genius today, Shrike is written to be quite the idiot. Not to mention the fact that he made it this far to be honest. The Raven Guard are perhaps the most modest of chapters yet Shrike comes across as Fulgrim reborn. The morale of the story is teamwork. Yes, something that is thought to children as 3-5 year olds has only been realised by super smart, super strong and superhuman warriors of the future. It's as if the Codex Astartes isn't a thing that they should read possibly. TLDR: This book is a solid 2/10, and no I'm not trolling. Bumped up to a 3/10 if you happen to be a RG fan like myself and want to have it for the collection of RG related works. Edit: And yes, as previously posted above, parts read like an advertisement for 7ed formations and units. There's just something so grating about seeing scouts written as 'Scouts'. I'd go so far to say that I'm surprised the points cost weren't noted for the weapons carried by both marine and Ork alike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5136650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Ah I was going to reply and just quote myself from the other thread from a year ago in the Raven Guard subforum, but then I noticed we already had this discussion . So to quickly run it down -Mann is the only one to use forests on the planet (multiple continents worth) -The planet and moon produce the equivalent of an average Forge World -It's industry predated the imperium where it's surface was "scoured to blasted wastes" - Corax dropped nukes on top of this landscape -Other planets like Tallarn and the Baal moons stay irradiated and nuked for 10,000 years -Mann gets other facts wrong Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5136888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuittzz Posted August 2, 2018 Share Posted August 2, 2018 Ahhh so this conversation was had before Either way, dropping a nuke on something isn't a permanent erase button for the future. Corax only dropped a limited amount 10,000 years previously. Not like forests couldn't develop in the meantime. Plenty of forests in real areas that were the victim of nuclear attacks 70 or so years ago. Anyway, retconning of the planet's geography should be the least of your qualms with this attempt at a story Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5136937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Yea, the problem with "in real life radiation goes away" is that things don't change in 40k for the better. Krieg, Baal, and tallarn are still the worst. A 3/4 forgeworld that got nuked would follow trend and stay the worst. And yes, the story itself was junk too lmao Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Imagine if ADB had tackled the RG Just imagine... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Imagine if ADB had tackled the RG Just imagine... They do appear in his "Cadian Blood" novel, and are utterly amazing there Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I didn't know that. Could you elaborate upon their awesomeness? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Honestly, not really. I only read the book once and it was years ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuittzz Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 @ b1soul Without reading the book, I believe it's based around the battle for Kathur which involves the attack upon a world by the Death Guard, defended by a Cadian regiment during the 13th Black Crusade. An Imperial fleet is on the way to assist with a demi-company of Raven Guard also in the vicinity. The Raven Guard are able to inflict serious casualties on the far superior DG forces but are destroyed in the process. The RG strike cruiser, Second Shadow, engages and inflicts heavy damage upon the Terminus Est before being destroyed.The Second Shadow was named in remembrance of the Shadow of the Emperor, the XIX Legion Gloriana-class flagship, which ironically was also destroyed by the Terminus Est above Istvaan V. Probably one of the better written showing of the Raven Guard, even considering the circumstances. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137438 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Nope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biscuittzz Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 Nope. Nope to what? The Raven Guard's part in the story seems correct from what I can find across wikis, parts of the book online, lexicanum etc and also older source materials such as codices, index astartes and whatnot. As I've said I haven't read the book so please inform us otherwise. Ok so from reading the synopsis and more, it's more about a plague outbreak which the Imperial Guard and RG end up combatting before the arrival of the Death Guard. The account of the RG is still the same however as far as I know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 I think he might be saying nope, the Shrike books are not worth a look? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
karden00 Posted August 3, 2018 Share Posted August 3, 2018 B1soul has it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5137732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 Honestly the raven guard in cadian blood didn't wow me. Were they remote and opaque? Yes; they had a good set up to be an interesting plot device. But they did nothing. Their librarian confirms they're going to be attacked, which kind of convinces some captains to ready their ships. I guess that allowed the guard to spread out to not be bombarded? But they mostly get massacred by the enemy anyways. They didn't really slow typhus down on the ground, because he basically just decides he doesn't care any more and packs up. He could have just gone and killed the rest of the imperial forces and then left. Any fighting they do is off screen. I guess the captain embarrasses the general Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/345830-the-shrike-books-worth-reading/#findComment-5138725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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