Plastic Model Ranges: Increasing Our Options

[Urriak Urruk]

Considering the future is all primaris all the time, I know certain things I have dreamed of for a long time will now never happen.

 

But a plastic SM hero kit like choas has had for ages would have been great. Updated indominus terminators, command squad, legion of the damned...

 

Oh well.

 

Hey, you might get lucky and have your favorite space marine unit redone for the Japanese collection.

[Ishagu]

I think the last thing we should be asking for are more plastic Tactical variants or old style Marine hero kits. We have everything we need to build basically anything.

[Daimyo-Phaeron Lenoch]

What Ishagu says is true. I have built an HQ from tank bits, two chainswords, and a bunch of greenstuff. The only update Marines need at the moment is the thunder fire and techmarine (and even then those can be scratchbuilt/acquired from forgeworld with better detail).

[Robbienw]

It's not more variants we are asking for, not at all. We want several key basic marine kits updated to current quality standard, like the tactical, assault and devastator squad have all been recently.

 

The command squad isn't so bad, you can get most of the fancy parts and bits in better kits, so you only really need a few bits from it like the standard pole and the champion parts, so that one is not really needed.

 

But the bikes are so old and the riders still have 2nd edition looking arms! The detail on the indomitus terminator kit is so soft compared to more recent kits, they badly need a redo. Compare for example an indomitus terminator to a deathwing, blood angel or tartaros terminator and you will see the difference in sharpness of detail is immense.

 

Would be relatively easy for GW to do both units as well. For bikes then can use the CAD files for the ravenwing bikes from dark vengeance and the ravenwing command squad, with da icons removed and some bits added in. Do the same for indomitus terminators by modifying the existing blood angel and deathwing CAD files, simple.

[MARK0SIAN]

People buy models for all sorts of reasons but one of the major ones is performance on the table. Even if they update all the outdated plastic kits I bet a lot of people wouldn’t buy them unless they fix their rules.

 

I’d love updated Terminators with sharper detail but I wouldn’t waste money on them in their current state.

 

The other problem with updating older kits like Terminators is that people already have a lot of them. Sharper detail would be nice but the older kits are not bad. They certainly don’t look bad enough that I’d be desperate to replace them, unlike say, berserker models.

 

Thirdly, and this is more of a problem for space marines than others, I don’t think those units have got much shelf life in them. I think Sooner or later they’ll be moved to a full Primaris range and the normal marines line will be squatted.

 

My main point is that if we want more plastic we have to be realistic and push for units that people are crying out for. That don’t already have a plastic range AND will be able to sell in the quantity required to justify GWs investment.

 

Focus on each faction having full plastic troops first as every force needs troops and they will sell the most. After that make sure every faction has plastic elites and heavy support as they are probably the next highest volume purchases in the range. Then plastic for the other slots including some generic HQs for each faction. I think these are more realistic expectations for us to go for.

[Robbienw]

I'm in it for the models, I don't care how a unit performs in the game, so I am coming in from that angle of course and I think a significant number of 40k fans are similarly inclined.

 

I agree they are better than plastic bezerkers, but that is not saying much! Bezerkers have got to be the joint worse plastic kit GW sells alongside Catachan jungle fighters squad, with Chaos Space Marines coming in a close 2nd :lol:

 

100% disagree that classic Space Marine will be discontinued, but probably best if we don't go into that as such discussion is thread ruining :lol:

[Shinespider]

1. Chaos Space Marines, the basic kit.

 

2. Aspect Warriors (Dual Kits, if it could be managed.)

 

3. New Guardsmen. Steel Legion, probably, with some design cues stolen from Kreig. You wouldn't need too much - an infantry box, and officers box and a heavy weapons box would get you most of the way there. Maybe put a tank commander in the officer box. 

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

Aspect Warriors.

Alongside their Phoenix Lords.

 

And throw in Berzerkers and Noise Marines too, so Chaos gets a bit of love.

[MARK0SIAN]

I'm in it for the models, I don't care how a unit performs in the game, so I am coming in from that angle of course and I think a significant number of 40k fans are similarly inclined.

 

I agree they are better than plastic bezerkers, but that is not saying much! Bezerkers have got to be the joint worse plastic kit GW sells alongside Catachan jungle fighters squad, with Chaos Space Marines coming in a close 2nd :lol:

 

100% disagree that classic Space Marine will be discontinued, but probably best if we don't go into that as such discussion is thread ruining :lol:

Oh I agree a lot of people are in it for the models, in fact that’s how I started myself. But even if only 1/3 of players buy models based largely on their performance, that’s still a lot of lost sales if they redo the kits without making sure the unit is actually worth taking in a game.

 

And don’t get me wrong, I would genuinely love plastic updates for everything, I just think a lot of the stuff people are suggesting is wishful thinking given the time and investment it takes to create a plastic line of a product. It takes GW around 2 years to get from the initial go ahead for a range to go through the design process, test runs and manufacturing setup and then decide on a release schedule. So all the stuff we will see over the next year will already be at least a year old to GW.

 

I say this because if we as a community can speak with one voice, like people did with sisters, then that request has a much greater chance of success. To do that we need to select some major ones the whole community can get behind and part of selecting those is understanding exactly what’s feasible or realistic from GWs point of view.

 

On a side note, as a Catachan player I know exactly what you mean :)

[Urriak Urruk]

 

I'm in it for the models, I don't care how a unit performs in the game, so I am coming in from that angle of course and I think a significant number of 40k fans are similarly inclined.

 

I agree they are better than plastic bezerkers, but that is not saying much! Bezerkers have got to be the joint worse plastic kit GW sells alongside Catachan jungle fighters squad, with Chaos Space Marines coming in a close 2nd

 

100% disagree that classic Space Marine will be discontinued, but probably best if we don't go into that as such discussion is thread ruining

Oh I agree a lot of people are in it for the models, in fact that’s how I started myself. But even if only 1/3 of players buy models based largely on their performance, that’s still a lot of lost sales if they redo the kits without making sure the unit is actually worth taking in a game.

 

And don’t get me wrong, I would genuinely love plastic updates for everything, I just think a lot of the stuff people are suggesting is wishful thinking given the time and investment it takes to create a plastic line of a product. It takes GW around 2 years to get from the initial go ahead for a range to go through the design process, test runs and manufacturing setup and then decide on a release schedule. So all the stuff we will see over the next year will already be at least a year old to GW.

 

I say this because if we as a community can speak with one voice, like people did with sisters, then that request has a much greater chance of success. To do that we need to select some major ones the whole community can get behind and part of selecting those is understanding exactly what’s feasible or realistic from GWs point of view.

 

On a side note, as a Catachan player I know exactly what you mean

 

 

I don't think you need to worry too much about rules. When a unit/character gets an updated model they often-times get an update in rules too, ESPECIALLY if their rules were originally trash.

[apologist]

3. New Guardsmen. Steel Legion, probably, with some design cues stolen from Kreig. You wouldn't need too much - an infantry box, and officers box and a heavy weapons box would get you most of the way there. Maybe put a tank commander in the officer box. 

 

Given the approach of three boxes (Command Squad, Infantry Squad and gunner sprue for existing heavy weapons) that is used to differentiate the Cadian and Catachan regiments, and the apparent popularity of the army, I'm surprised that GW haven't done more Guard regiments. It seems such low-hanging fruit.

[sarabando]

Id loooooove

 

Mk5 marines and Mk6 marines like the current heresy boxes.

a new heresy plastic box with 20 mk 5 marines 10 mk 6 a plastic Diemos rhino and 2 more characters :D

 

i know its never gonna happen though.

[Wargamer]

I'd also like to throw in plastic greatcoats - with a choice of Valhallan heads, Armageddon / Krieg style gas mask helmets or Vostroyan style bearskins.

[Lexington]

Another voice for plastic Aspect Warriors. So much of the Eldar's basic infantry is made using a material that's extremely ill-suited toward the models. Add in the insane costs, the lack of easy availability...it's kind of a wonder anyone even starts Craftworld armies these days.

[Kinstryfe]

Another voice for plastic Aspect Warriors. So much of the Eldar's basic infantry is made using a material that's extremely ill-suited toward the models. Add in the insane costs, the lack of easy availability...it's kind of a wonder anyone even starts Craftworld armies these days.

Plus look at some of the stuff they can do with plastics now. Flying units that's fly, agile models doing cool acrobatic poses. I know not everyone is a fan of stuff like the Stormcast flying dudes suspended by scrollwork, but classic Eldar aesthetic plus proof of concept in what they've done with stuff like the Idoneth means that an updated Aeldari range (especially aspect warriors) could be visually stunning. I have a single painted Aeldari model in my twenty year collection, but if they do it right I'd be picking some of these up just to paint and display.

[Slave to Darkness]

Another voice for plastic Aspect Warriors. So much of the Eldar's basic infantry is made using a material that's extremely ill-suited toward the models. Add in the insane costs, the lack of easy availability...it's kind of a wonder anyone even starts Craftworld armies these days.

Then there is idiots like me who start an army using Rogue Trader era Eldar only.

[Xwingt65]

Plastic Aspect Warriors, Phoenix Lords and Rangers.

 

Then Incubi, Drazhar, and Grotesques.

 

Then more or less the entire chaos marine basic range, troops, terminators, characters, bikes, possessed and Havocs.

[Calyptra]

I just wish Grotesques had it as good as finecast units which have more than one pose.

 

Then there is idiots like me who start an army using Rogue Trader era Eldar only.

I'm also slowly building a Rogue Trader only Craftworld army and don't see the problem with this. They were cool models then and they're still cool models now.

[Slave to Darkness]

I just wish Grotesques had it as good as finecast units which have more than one pose.

 

 

Then there is idiots like me who start an army using Rogue Trader era Eldar only.

I'm also slowly building a Rogue Trader only Craftworld army and don't see the problem with this. They were cool models then and they're still cool models now.

Much better than some of the later sculpts thats for sure. Still trynna find a first edition Avatar for the right price... One day it will be mine, oh yes, it will be mine.

[Feral_80]

GW will never catch up with this. It's pure dream.

 

They obviously prefer to design new kits and armies which, as cool as they might look, were certainly unnecessary (think of AdMech, Knights, Custodes, Primarchs, etc.), instead of redoing old stuff: to limit this to Marines, see e.g. the plethora of (frankly quite stupid) old mark armours put out over the past two years, both standard and Terminators, in some sort of complementary production to FW. And all these models, despite being new, look very silly because they lack proportions just as the 20-year old standard Tacticals. Plus, the update they needed has been implemented the Primaris way, resulting in two mutually inconsistent lines (Marines and Primaris) for which GW invented a very poor background explanation, instead of just a honest: lads, old Marines objectively look ridiculous - you can still use the old miniatures, but from now on we're only doing updated (Primaris-sized) stuff. Instead, by keeping both lines, they have created an absurdly cramped codex, silly new Primaris concept and units, and a lot of confusion and inconsistency (see characters, transports, etc.). Bad bad choice.

 

As for the rest, as I said, they will just never ever catch up. It's impossible. They just have to make choices, and 90% those choices depend on the commercial success of an army. I would hope for new AM infantry because current Catachans and Cadians are *really* awful (and old resin stuff is not much better, frankly), but honestly it is impossible to devise a kit that can cover Catachans to Steel Legions. The best possibilty (and still quite unlikely) is that they choose one regiment and do that one, but it will impose quite a limit to the game choices.

 

Eldars certainly deserve to be remade. But I am not sure they are a top priority: rule-wise they are so broken they sell well all the time regardless. And if you want wonderful (well, mostly) Eldar miniatures, you can go Dark Eldars/Harlequins. Orks, I think they have aged relatively well. Tyranids and Daemons are fine, Tau have been relatively newly updated. Necrons, some should be remade but they would probably look quite silly regardless. 

 

Overall, the top priorities aesthetically speaking would be pretty much all Imperium armies (yes, even Marines, due to the above mess - never going to happen of course), Chaos SM, and perhaps Eldar. I.e. the most humanoid-looking races, and certainly not by chance. But as said, aesthetics is not the primary concern.

[Robbienw]

They don't objectively look ridiculous though.

 

GW has been doing this style of over exaggerated proportions for the past 30 odd years, I quite like it and I'm sure there are others that do as well.

 

GW making primaris closer (but not spot on, primaris are still out of proportion in many ways) to real human proportions, just makes them objectively closer to real human proportions.  Whether you find this style of miniature better or not is entirely subjective.

[Feral_80]

Yes it is, but for the same 30 years people (even many of those who like(d) old Marines) have been complaining about Marines being huge in fluff and tiny, guardsman-sized on tabletop. That had to be addressed sooner or later, and is only a natural process of GW's progressive shift towards more human-like proportion/features: compare e.g. the recent Eldar faces, especially female faces, with those of old times. Going full-Primaris was a natural choice within this design strategy, but GW chose the odd in-between way that seems to have pissed off most players from both sides.

[Robbienw]

None of those things make primaris proportions objectively better though.  It is entirely subjective and based on what you as an individual think looks better.

 

A vocal group of people on the internet, of indeterminate number, wanting marines who are scaled like the artwork and/or are bigger than Imperial Guard models doesn't change that.

[Panzer]

I honestly think people need to be more patient. We're currently in a transition process from old Marines to Primaris Marines so of course things are not optimal.

[Feral_80]

I'm fine with transitions, my only concern is that GW seems to be complicating them unnecessarily 

 

And just to make it clear: I'm no fan of Primaris at all, except for the Intercessors. I think the sculptors started very fine with these, then went down a toyish design that really has little to do with 40k. But still, it's the way that GW is pursuing, so that's the future apparently.