Praetorian of Dorn Spoiler Question (For those who read!)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

He couldn’t say anything since he was eating a big chainsword sammiche.

[Manchu warlord]

Any thoughts on what Alpharius’s last words were?

For the Emperor.

[Lord_Caerolion]

"Mistakes have been made".

[karden00]

“What was the name of the bad guy from Tron?”

[Boldthreat]

“Nailed it”

[Xisor]

I've long held this odd notion.

 

'Alpharius' has died twice so far. The first was before Omegon existed. Then two sprouted back - a 'new' Alpharius & Omegon.

 

The second time yields a third Alpha Legion Primarch. (Gammon? Mmm.)

 

The vault that Dorn seals him inside will eventually be *rammed* to improbable density by highly pressured rotted primarch flesh and the bones of innumerable Alpha Legion primarchs.

 

They sealed a head of the hydra inside that vault and allowed it to be sealed for an eternity.

 

Perhaps the rate of the process means that the vault still isn't full. Perhaps when it is full, it's just a matter of time for one of the heads to finally regrow *outside* the vault?

 

I mean, there wasn't psychic interference a la The War of the Beast, so it's just a matter of mystery & mathematics. And, of course, answering the question of whether Alpharius & Oregon merely normal twins, or if it's a magical superpower.

 

And to conclude with a two-thousand word essay on relevant details:

[Izlude]

Has a quick question about Incarnus:

 

1. Crimson walker: Aside from what was mentioned in the book, it sounds like he was basically a psyker? It didn't sound like he was that powerful. Wasn't sure if there was more to it that that. The whole "I am the last one" made it seem like he was someone important. 

 

2. Betrayal: Wanted to make sure I got this straight so during the scene when they meet with the dowerson, he seemingly "betrays" the alpha legion by trying to escape (getting his hand shot off in the process) pretending he is really trying to save his own bacon. I am assuming this was part of the AL plan and then during that later fight he betrays the IF. I was confused why he did that right in front of the Luna witch who just ended up shanking him, did he think she would also betray the IF due to the history?

[Manchu warlord]

He couldn’t say anything since he was eating a big chainsword sammiche.

It was the mayonnaise that killed him.  Alpharius is - was, allergic to the white stuff.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For sure.

[Marshal Loss]

Has a quick question about Incarnus:

 

1. Crimson walker: Aside from what was mentioned in the book, it sounds like he was basically a psyker? It didn't sound like he was that powerful. Wasn't sure if there was more to it that that. The whole "I am the last one" made it seem like he was someone important. 

 

2. Betrayal: Wanted to make sure I got this straight so during the scene when they meet with the dowerson, he seemingly "betrays" the alpha legion by trying to escape (getting his hand shot off in the process) pretending he is really trying to save his own bacon. I am assuming this was part of the AL plan and then during that later fight he betrays the IF. I was confused why he did that right in front of the Luna witch who just ended up shanking him, did he think she would also betray the IF due to the history?

 

1. The Crimson Walkers are a reference to a force of psykers and gene-monsters who popped up in HH Book 2: Massacre. They were the group of people providing a lot of the horrors for the evil Warlords during the Age of Strife, and the Emperor had them hunted down and destroyed. So Incarnus was a pretty big deal.

 

2. Yeah, it was definitely an Alpha Legion plan. I'm not really sure what happened though - he froze her before turning to take down Kestros, but she somehow shakes off his grip and knifes him. But no, he'd already frozen her, so I guess he thought she was unable to get out of his psychic grip.

 

 

 

Andromeda’s head jerked up as she heard his words. Then she froze, her face still inside her visor, mouth and eyes open, as though she were a still pict image. Frost spread across her suit.

[mc warhammer]

The finality of Omegon's moment at the end of Praetorian of Dorn leads me to believe that there is very little chance of that happening.

 

since it's only a mind altered state for whichever operative takes on the alpharius persona, omegon most likely wouldn't sense it either way. unless i misunderstood the process as depicted in PoD and tSB?

[Marshal Loss]

 

The finality of Omegon's moment at the end of Praetorian of Dorn leads me to believe that there is very little chance of that happening.

 

since it's only a mind altered state for whichever operative takes on the alpharius persona, omegon most likely wouldn't sense it either way. unless i misunderstood the process as depicted in PoD and tSB?

 

 

I suppose he wouldn't, but that was not the point. I was saying that this...

 

 

 

I am alone. The knowledge rose through the coldness of his thoughts, certain and inescapable, though he could not say how he knew that it was fact not fear. He had never been alone, not truly. Even from the first spark of a thought in his consciousness he had known that he was one of many, a fragment of a greater whole, a piece of a great destiny. And now...

 

...indicates to me that we're not going to see the mind of Alpharius reborn in another body. It would undermine the finality and weight of the epilogue. Not that there wouldn't be other fake Alpharius/Omegon impersonators through whatever means, but that Alpharius himself is gone and is not coming back. French has said as much.

[Xisor]

I'm sure there are creative ways to undo it.

 

But I hope that they don't.

 

In that I agree with Marshal Loss and ol' French - the intent and execution of the ending has a huge amount of weight at face value. Subverting that is intriguing but, in my esteem, wasteful.

 

Consider the ending of "Fulgrim" or "Galaxy in Flames". Are either better for being 'continued' in "The Reflection Crack'd" or "Vengeful Spirit"?

 

I firmly come down on the side that "no, both are worse for it". More: the entire series has much of its epic gravity and tragedy robbed because of those sorts of things.

 

----

 

Kill Lorgar.

[mc warhammer]

i don’t see it as a reversal or even a subversion; having a watered down shade of a primarch might be fun to think about. alpharius would still be dead (i’m firmly in the “he dead” camp too)...and all they have left is a copy of a copy of a copy that is continuously watered down through the generations and only lasts for...what? days? hours? at a time

though i suppose that’s not too different to sanguinius’ memories and the blood priests

on fulgrim, i agree that reflection crack’d took away the one interesting part of fulgrim (the book) but...then clone lord managed to redeem all of that with its addition. strange that

[Marshal Loss]

There are more interesting possibilities to explore with relation to Omegon and what he does with half of his soul removed (essentially), how he copes with the assumption of the mantle, rather than just adding in a Primarch in a bottle. From the earliest days of the Alpha Legion, right back to the beginning of their lore when they had only a single Primarch who died on Eskrador, what they do without their Primarch is the most important part of their entire philosophy. It's what makes them so unique as a Legion. We already have Primarch shades/clones in various forms, I'd rather they not cheapen a well executed death at the hands of hubris.

[mc warhammer]

yeah, i don't disagree entirely. i was wondering if it were an in-universe possibility from the pov of the lore, and i completely understand the concerns about story integrity from a reader/writer perspective (it's something i fight for during table reads and writer's sessions in my day job, but twists tend to win).

 

my question has been answered, happily enough.

 

though i would say that in order for any exploration of omegon's sudden solo/ orphaned twin status quo to be interesting, BL need to do more work to help us understand what he's lost. that was my major gripe with the death when i first read it; not enough had been done with the concept of the twins during its existence in order to make the loss of one of them interesting.

 

the idea was introduced in legion and then, in my opinion, half heartedly played with, before sudden removal. i don't see the point of the twins. other than some surface details; if the entire horus heresy story had never introduced omegon...would the alpha legion's narrative have been significantly different?

 

hopefully that's something bl flesh out in future.

[Kelborn]

Agreed.

I hope that their primarch novel will flesh this out.

 

Maybe told from Omegons pov, showing us key moments / events from a completely different angle, revealing some hidden plots or actions, etc.

Ending with Omegons scene in PoD ans

"I am Alpharius."

[StruManChu]

I've long held this odd notion.

 

'Alpharius' has died twice so far. The first was before Omegon existed. Then two sprouted back - a 'new' Alpharius & Omegon.

 

The second time yields a third Alpha Legion Primarch. (Gammon? Mmm.)

 

The vault that Dorn seals him inside will eventually be *rammed* to improbable density by highly pressured rotted primarch flesh and the bones of innumerable Alpha Legion primarchs.

 

They sealed a head of the hydra inside that vault and allowed it to be sealed for an eternity.

 

Perhaps the rate of the process means that the vault still isn't full. Perhaps when it is full, it's just a matter of time for one of the heads to finally regrow *outside* the vault?

 

I mean, there wasn't psychic interference a la The War of the Beast, so it's just a matter of mystery & mathematics. And, of course, answering the question of whether Alpharius & Oregon merely normal twins, or if it's a magical superpower.

 

I've never considered this, but I really, really like it. Like, 'this is my new headcanon' like it.

 

It would make a level of sense, I think given that -

 

The Wolves, Salamanders and Alphas are the 'trefoil' legions who, as far as can be surmised, were the three legions intended by the Emperor to carry on in perpetuity. We know that Vulkan is a perpetual, and has brought himself back from deaths from which would it be far beyond the means of medical science to restore him. It would be very interesting indeed to learn that Alpharius has a similar, if slightly different, version of the ability possessed by his Trefoil brother Vulkan. If there were a link between the Trefoil Legions and the gifts possessed by their Primarchs, I think that would be an amazing development, especially given the internecine conflict within the Alpha Legion itself. I'm reminded of the Joker in The Dark Knight - "I think we're destined to do this forever, you and I...".

 

It would also imply that Russ, as the third Trefoil Primarch, also was theoretically unkillable, which I'm sure Space Wolf fans would dearly love while the rest of us moaned about it.

[mc warhammer]

Agreed.

I hope that their primarch novel will flesh this out.

 

Maybe told from Omegons pov, showing us key moments / events from a completely different angle, revealing some hidden plots or actions, etc.

Ending with Omegons scene in PoD ans

"I am Alpharius."

i’m hanging for that novel too

 

i also want to make it clear that i’m not bashing PoD (it’s a solid book), i’m quietly confident that BL will fill in the blanks eventually

[Lord_Caerolion]

In regards to Eskrador, to quote a proverb, "the greatest trick the devil played was convincing us he was dead".

 

On that note though, Alpharius absolutely should not be brought back. Let Omegon step up to take the mantle.

[Moonreaper666]

In regards to Eskrador, to quote a proverb, "the greatest trick the devil played was convincing us he was dead".

 

On that note though, Alpharius absolutely should not be brought back. Let Omegon step up to take the mantle.

And take revenge on Dorn!

[Manchu warlord]

I have a feeling, that the High Lords of GW (today) look back to the past and curse (politely) the original sages and founders of WH40k for making the HH so fixed and inflexible. X numbers of Primarchs die, this happened here, that happened there, the Drop site massacre massacred 3 legions, x numbers of legions were present at the Siege, etc.

Yes yes I know, some new ideas were added, like Vulkan's immortality, Imperium Secundus, the events of Wolfsbane, etc.

But after reading the books, and you encounter too many times where the characters you hate escape death and wreak havoc upon their foes. It is so annoying.

 

I'm saying this - which isn't related to the novel - because the killing of Alpharius by Dorn seems like a rule changer and it inspired this idea in me.