Swarm lord special rule and arriving from reserves question

[Kerrigan_khv]

Hello everyone.

 

Rulebook says that units arriving from reserves cannot do any further movement that turn.

Swarm lord has special rule that gives a unit in 6" an option to move into shooting phase.

So the question is: Genestealers or any other unit arriving from reserves in any manner can be "ordered" by Swarm lord to move in their shooting phase, or rulebook statement about "no further movement" prevails?

 

Thank you in advance.

[Plasmablasts]

Just checked the Battle Primer and that prohibits units arriving as reinforcements from moving or Advancing further “during the turn that they arrive”, so that seems to preclude them benefiting from the Swarmlord’s rule, unless it has a specific exemption for this situation.

[Helycon]

I just re-read the rulebook when it comes to reserves, and it seems that units simply cannot move again when they arrive on the board. This would mean that warp time could not be used either, for example, and then only way they can be displaced, is by charging something.

 

I'm not a native speaker, but that's what I gathered from the snippet.

[Gentlemanloser]

Needs a FAQ.

 

Intention in the reinforcement rules is that it's for just that movement phase.

 

Hive Commander should be ok as you're moving in a different phase.

 

Except The reinforcement rules have a blanket can't move or advance any more.

 

Which would also effect a stratagem as well iirc.

 

Its also contradictory as charges use all the rules for movement, but you're not allowed to move. But you can charge. Which is movement.

 

Edit. The reinforcement rule should be erratad to cannot move or advance in that phase. Not turn.

 

Then everything is ok.

[Plasmablasts]

The reinforcement rule as written seems clear. Charging is movement in the common English sense but not in the specialist sense of the main action occurring in the Movement phase - and they do NOT use the same rules, one being random, the other using the Move characteristic.

 

I do agree, GML, that there is uncertainty about intention: the parenthesis explaining the movement restriction (“their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield”) is insufficient to explain why further Movement is prohibited through the whole turn. I don’t think we can safely deduce whether that means the rule is misworded or that the explanation is simply inadequate.

[Gentlemanloser]

Charge is movement. Its called 'move' and follows all the normal movement rules.

 

Otherwise things get silly quickly.

 

The reinforcement rule allows you to 'move' in the charge and fight phase. There's no reason the intention isn't also to allow you to 'move' in the psychic or shooting phases if you are able too.

 

The intention is obvious that deploying sucks up your entire movement phase.

 

Not that you stand still for the rest of the turn.

[Mr. Shine]

Even taking the, "Obviously referring to their Movement phase that turn," approach, it appears Warp Time is still out, as that's done as if it were the unit's Movement phase... and if it were the unit's Movement phase they wouldn't be able to move or Advance.

[Gentlemanloser]

As does the swarm Lord. Which is why they need a FAQ to clarify units can move under those abilities.

 

As for sillyness if charging isn't movement.

 

You then allow people to charge into and through bastion/bunker/building walls.

 

Allow chargers to charge through friendly land raiders or baneblades.

 

And stop units with the fly keyword from being able to ignore other models / terrain when charging.

 

As these are all movement rules and resteictions.

 

Edit. By RAW reinforcements also can't pile in or consolidate. As they are moves.

[Kerrigan_khv]

As does the swarm Lord. Which is why they need a FAQ to clarify units can move under those abilities.

AFAIK "Warp Time" was clarified with Index Chaos FAQ like this:

Q: When I manifest the Warptime psychic power, can I select a

unit that arrived on the battlefield as reinforcements this turn?

A: Yes.

 

So, does it mean that succesiful manifestation allows me to move unit arrived from reserves at the precieding movement phase or it just clarifies that I can manifest it on such target for a purposes of Maelstrom of War cards like "Manifest X psycic powers and get X VP"?

[Mr. Shine]

 

As does the swarm Lord. Which is why they need a FAQ to clarify units can move under those abilities.

AFAIK "Warp Time" was clarified with Index Chaos FAQ like this:

Q: When I manifest the Warptime psychic power, can I select a

unit that arrived on the battlefield as reinforcements this turn?

A: Yes.

 

So, does it mean that succesiful manifestation allows me to move unit arrived from reserves at the precieding movement phase or it just clarifies that I can manifest it on such target for a purposes of Maelstrom of War cards like "Manifest X psycic powers and get X VP"?

 

An excellent find.

 

I think the FAQ makes it obvious that the Reinforcements sidebar is intended to refer to movement in the Movement phase rather than the turn as a whole, and that powers or abilities such as Warptime and Hive Commander may still be used to move a unit in phases other than the Movement phase even within the same turn.

[McElMcNinja]

The rules also state "If a model with a Heavy weapon moved in its preceding Movement phase, you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made when firing that weapon this turn.". Does this mean if they were only moved in the psychic phase or shooting phase that they do not suffer the -1 to hit?

[Gentlemanloser]

Warptime counts as the Movement Phase, and Hive Commander is used instead of Shooting.

[Mr. Shine]

Warptime counts as the Movement Phase, and Hive Commander is used instead of Shooting.

Warptime only treats it as the unit's Movement phase for the purpose of resolving itself. You don't count it as the unit's Movement phase for other purposes such as firing heavy weapons.

[Gentlemanloser]

Why not? Is this anther case of counts as not being counts as.

 

If warptime let's you move as if it was your movement please then surely you've moved as if you moved in your movement phase.

 

If warptime just let you move (much like other movement outside the movement phase) that would be fine.

[Mr. Shine]

Why not? Is this anther case of counts as not being counts as.

 

If warptime let's you move as if it was your movement please then surely you've moved as if you moved in your movement phase.

 

If warptime just let you move (much like other movement outside the movement phase) that would be fine.

Warptime allows the unit to move when resolving the power in the Psychic phase as if it were the target unit's Movement phase. It doesn't actually make the resolution of the power in the Psychic phase a Movement phase, so you would ignore it when determining whether the unit moved in their preceding Movement phase.

 

If I were to party as if it were 1999 I would not thereafter consider myself to have actually partied in 1999 unless I had actually done so.

[Gentlemanloser]

If you move as if it's the movement phase, then surely that includes all the restrictions that come with moving as if it was your movement phase.

 

Like a penalty to shoot heavy weapons later in the turn.

 

Edit. If partying like it was 1999 came worth some restrictions, such as only being able to wear purple for the next year after doing so, then if you partied like it was 1999 then you would have to only wear purple for the next year.

 

Otherwise You've not partied like it was 1999.

 

Obviously You don't move in that movement phase, just as you didn't party in the actual year 1999. But for anything that checks to see if you did, you count as having done so.

 

Unless counts as doesn't mean counts as.

[Helycon]

I guess this for cleared up in the FAQ.

 

You can't use these abilities on units that arrived on the board in that turn.