Struggling Quite a Bit with Mars

[Prot]

I like the premise.

 

I think Stygies has black on red. So the Dragoons are mostly metallic and I’m thinking if keeping red armour plating but making the trim black instead of gold. Not sure if that’s Stygies enough.

[Subtle Discord]

As long as the difference is reasonably distinct and it's easy to pick out how it ties a group of models together, I think it'll be fine. Are you going to be 'that guy' and try to game it? Somehow, I suspect not, since you're openly contemplating it.

[lash144]

You could just paint the rim of the base in another colour?

[synthaside]

Prot , Do you magnetise them onto the bases? 

If I'm running them in a separate forge world i swap the base entirely  and to be honest, new bases  even direct from GW  are cheap.   

Heres an example of some stuff being run as Graia they have has bright Red bases compared to the normal stoncolour, but i've magentised the bases like so
https://photos.app.goo.gl/v5uszhFhBk7sJx2A2   I chose red over the white stone as  it was going to be alt for " mars " ... but it works for every other sub faction and no-ones complained the bases are pretty obviously different.

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/droygh4H9T6qcq4k1    mmmmmm magnets ...   https://photos.app.goo.gl/1vBIdJWZbPwdQ9eg1

[Prot]

That's an interesting take on it for sure. My base work on my Dragoons is pretty extensive though, very time consuming. Still it's one way of handling the problem.

[Heliomanes]

I'd rather recommend a color swap on the models themselves than changing the bases. It might be expedient for gaming purposes, but comes off a bit too "gamey" for my tastes. Still, you could change up your dragoons a bit to show off that they are an allied fraction with their own subculture within the force proper. The easiest way of doing this is reversing the colors - but with some bitswapping and a unified theme in mind, you can turn it into a fun and interesting project. For instance, they might be from a Forge residing on a wintery feral world, so adding totems, feathers, bones and furs might be fitting - and you can paint them in more downplayed colors - grays, leathery tones etc.

[Prot]

I think my black trimmed, red armour is subtle, but significant enough to keep it understandable...

[Charlo]

I'm honestly considering the same thing if I get some Joust-chickens.

 

They're never going to need the Cawl re-rolls so they may aswell be harder to shoot!

[synthaside]

In my defense , im not typically that competitive a guy. It started as a transport easing idea suggested at at a small tourney. I loved how easy it made moving them in my old flat cases so I did all my vehicles as magnetised. It just gives me felxibility .

[Heliomanes]

Oh, I didn't mean to accuse you of anything, Synthaside. I'm just a hug fan of the idea of the Mechanicus being a ton of diverse subfactions who ally, scheme, betray and bicker with one another, with diverse cultures and priorities - like in much of the fluff. It  opens up for a lot of creative modelling and bitswapping, so I take any excuse to push people in that direction.

[synthaside]

No offence was taken, Helio I was more ashamed of myself, it seems playing in competitive leagues is rubbing off on me :-( . 
I just hate the idea of having to paint different bits of my typically uniform white. 

I'm big into my own forces narrative, I won't take any more than a pair of dakka bots ( these are supposed to be relics from the dark ages not more common than Skitari )

I run breachers because adore the models and while playing Metallica ... I have named units ... based on past deed's good and bad including a vanguard alpha who's squad took a charge from a wolfen pack held for an entire turn ...  and denied the space wolf player an objective  5 6's were rolled against thunder hammers ....
 The latest addition is Matilda, my incredibly grumpy imperial Knight .

[Scurvydog]

I don't worry about forge world dogmas compared to paint jobs at all. This was just introduced this edition, rules come and go. I do not treat it any different than formations was in 7th. Dakka might be mars and run with cawl, my dragoons are still painted mars although I run them with a stygies dogma.

 

Same deal with my space marines, they might be crimson fist painted, but sometimes they ambush and will use raven guard rules, a spearhead of crackshot devastators will use salamander rules. This might all change next edition or even with some FAQ, so I will definately not be repainting or model my minis just to play with a current rule.

[Vel'Cona]

IMHO, trait-swapping is fine from a purely competitive standpoint but it does smack of fair-weathering to some extent.  I get mildly annoyed when a black & white Astartes list, covered in Iron Crosses, sits across from me and has 3 Librarians in it, for example.  I guess what I'm saying is, make it clear to your opponent who is supposed to be what if you're not going to follow a well-understood paint scheme; if you paint all your dudes red but they're using the Dogma of a grey FW, then go out of your way to point out that you're playing by the grey rules for respective units.  This is a good sportsman's best practice to avoid unnecessary confusion and "gotcha!" moments :)

[DanPesci]

IMHO, trait-swapping is fine from a purely competitive standpoint but it does smack of fair-weathering to some extent.  I get mildly annoyed when a black & white Astartes list, covered in Iron Crosses, sits across from me and has 3 Librarians in it, for example.  I guess what I'm saying is, make it clear to your opponent who is supposed to be what if you're not going to follow a well-understood paint scheme; if you paint all your dudes red but they're using the Dogma of a grey FW, then go out of your way to point out that you're playing by the grey rules for respective units.  This is a good sportsman's best practice to avoid unnecessary confusion and "gotcha!" moments

 

Id second this.

 

I've been playing stygies since the codex dropped, but had 1000+ points painted up in a 'metallica but not quite' scheme from before the codex...I wasnt going to go repaint all those lovely white robes black... but I always make sure my opponent knows which FW im playing as.

 

Personally I never mix forgeworlds within lists (i tend to have a few beers during a game so keeping track aint fun hehe), and i dont tend to ever play with allies either unless its above 2k points...but i can see why people may do either of those if playin at comps (which i dont)

[Prot]

Guys I’m not sure if I should start a new thread for this but I signed up for an ITC event ( so it will be very competitive) in under a month.

 

What do you think of me combining Cawl (Mars) AdMech, with a full Knight detachment of 2 Armigers and an Errant or Paladin?

 

This takes care of my CC woes but still might suck hard. But it does get me 11 CPs to keep those Super Heavies functional.

 

Even AdMech plus a solo Knight? Or would I be best off pure AdMech?

[Clingy]

What units have you got already, and what are you prepared to buy/paint in time for your tournament?

[Feral_80]

I really doubt Armigers should be bought to a tournanent if you want to play competitive. They are a really poor unit at the moment.

[Charlo]

Limited to 1750 yeah?

 

So that's what, almost 1200 on just the Knights + Cawl alone?

 

What would you bring with the rest of the Ad Mech?

[Heliomanes]

Competitively speaking Martian Cawlbots + Stygian dragoons are your best bet. They also got a buff by proxy because of the nerfs to deep strike and smite - depending on the ruleset adopted by the tournament. Knights are quite bad so far in this edition, armigers woefully so. Fingers crossed that the upcoming knights codex will remedy this.

[Stray]

Competitively speaking Martian Cawlbots + Stygian dragoons are your best bet. They also got a buff by proxy because of the nerfs to deep strike and smite - depending on the ruleset adopted by the tournament. Knights are quite bad so far in this edition, armigers woefully so. Fingers crossed that the upcoming knights codex will remedy this.

 

I'd have to agree wholeheartedly here. 

 

I think you probably need to decide what you want out of the tournament experience. If you're looking to be truly competitive, Knights are a poor option currently. Personally, that wouldn't stop me taking them as they're what I enjoy fielding, but I'd set my expectations accordingly and just aim to put on a good show with the army I enjoy.

 

The two Knights you listed - the Paladin especially - are also not among our most effective options either. (Outside of exceptional rolls, the RFBC is almost unarguably our poorest main weapon option this edition.) 

 

The dirty little secret that us Knight players don't really like to admit, is that actually, for the points they cost, Knights really don't have that much firepower. And with the way many competitive lists are built, you can expect to see a Knight deleted from the table in a single turn of shooting quite often.

That said, you play what you want to play! It's always better to field a list you care about and are invested in, than to copy a hyper competitive, tournament winning force that bores you to tears.

 

Hermanista is likely a good source of advice here as he has a decent tournament pedigree running knight-centric lists. 

[Vel'Cona]

 

The dirty little secret that us Knight players don't really like to admit, is that actually, for the points they cost, Knights really don't have that much firepower. And with the way many competitive lists are built, you can expect to see a Knight deleted from the table in a single turn of shooting quite often.

 

It's a shame to admit that this is very true.  Point for point IK have the traditional issue of not enough shooting for their cost, especially when stacked up against options in IG, Eldar or T'au (filthy xenos efficiency!).  Hopefully the new 'dex is set to change this paradigm, but for the moment I'd say sticking with the shootiest possible IK (Crusader) is probably your best bet.

[BolterZorro]

I hope that the IK codex wil be an oportunity to GW to adjust the other LoW that are actually in a pure mess: eldar knight, chaos knight, etc... those are lacking fire power/resistance for a too high point value.

[Prot]

What units have you got already, and what are you prepared to buy/paint in time for your tournament?

 

 

I really doubt Armigers should be bought to a tournanent if you want to play competitive. They are a really poor unit at the moment.

 

 

Limited to 1750 yeah?

 

So that's what, almost 1200 on just the Knights + Cawl alone?

 

What would you bring with the rest of the Ad Mech?

 

This is an example of my typical 8th edition Mars game: LINK

 

This is a link to my current inventory of Admech: LINK

 

 

Competitively speaking Martian Cawlbots + Stygian dragoons are your best bet. They also got a buff by proxy because of the nerfs to deep strike and smite - depending on the ruleset adopted by the tournament. Knights are quite bad so far in this edition, armigers woefully so. Fingers crossed that the upcoming knights codex will remedy this.

 

 

Okay so this is your final answer? ;)

 

I guess why I mention Knights... is I want to use mine so badly. I know the Armigers aren't great but I thought WITH a Paladin/Errant I could fend off the assault armies without needing Dragoons, but getting my Knights in play with shooty was a plus.

[Heliomanes]

Lol, no I'll find some way to rephrase that answer by the time you've found a way to rephrase the question. We're destined to do this forever, my friend.

I know how you feel though. I play my knights in a non/semi competitive setting and have fun with them. Much less so in a true competitive environment.

[Prot]

Lol, no I'll find some way to rephrase that answer by the time you've found a way to rephrase the question. We're destined to do this forever, my friend.

 

I know how you feel though. I play my knights in a non/semi competitive setting and have fun with them. Much less so in a true competitive environment.

 

I appreciate your honesty. I completely get where you're coming from, and apparently you get where I'm coming from as well. :tu:

 

Conversely I can easily TRY to finish my Custodes project of craziness OR just pull out my Deathguard army.

 

Truthfully I thought if I could find some magic in the AdMech Mars/Mars/Knights, or whatever, that it would be such a fun reason to take them to the ITC event. The 'truth' part is, I've never gone full gonzo on the Mars Shooty Bot idea.

 

I know Incontrol Robertson (something like that) is a very experienced ITC guy. We have events here, but only a handful are ITC. I don't even know if I would enjoy 4 shooty bots (at 1750) and Stygiies. That kind of list feels like it would be very monochromatic and I'm not sure if that level of inflexibility lends itself well enough to ITC.

 

BUT what gave me hope was the FAQ and smite nerf. So I thought I'd ask you guys since I my 'competitive' Admech experiences are limited to helping friends for tournaments or playing semi-competitive. Maybe I'm destined for Deathguard (I did have a nose bleed today lol )

 

Thanks for any past/future advice guys. Much appreciation.