Single Purpose Squads vs. Multipurpose Squads?

[allegedlynerdy]

Basically the title. In your experience, are single purpose squads (i.e. a squad of fragcannons and combiflamer, or missile launchers and stalker Bolters) or multi-purpose squads (i.e. a squad with one missile launcher, one frag cannon, one stalker Bolter, one Stormshield) generally better/more efficient?

[ONDIG]

Am currently faced w/ this exact dillema .Recently purchased my First Corvus Blackstar and am having issues deciding on the 12 bodies to go inside it.i have single magnetized Killteam (10bodies) and plan to muster up at least 5 more and an HQ .For now im thinking

1.5 man

Stalker pattern Bolters

2.5 man squad ×2 Frag cannons

3.5 man Assault squad? Probably ×2 stormshields

Yeah i think more specialized squads will probably be more effective and cost efficient than a squad trying to do a little of everything.Tryed a few times to make the Deathwatch 'Kitchen sink' squad and even w/ a single Termitator,bike and vanguard became stupid expensive!(more than 200pts!)

[allegedlynerdy]

My thought on multi-purpose squads is it's Hardy for the enemy to take out all of your shooting by targeting only a few squads. You chose which marines to lose based on what the squad is going to need at it's present point.

[spacewatch]

...

Yeah i think more specialized squads will probably be more effective and cost efficient than a squad trying to do a little of everything.Tryed a few times to make the Deathwatch 'Kitchen sink' squad and even w/ a single Termitator,bike and vanguard became stupid expensive!(more than 200pts!)

 

I'd say that our basic Vets already are multi-purpose because of SIA. Our special weapons also are multi-purpose, Frag Cannon is very good 'flamer' and middle range D2 shooter and our shotgun, while worse than boltgun+SIA, has very handy flamer profile for protection if you miss that 9" charge your assault team is trying. However if you take multiples of Frag Cannons it makes your team close range shooter and if you take multiple shotguns then you have assault unit because there's no point to take shotguns if your team is not going to run.

 

My approach is that teams have two roles, so I try to think what does my unit do when primary target is wiped. Also in practice yes my x3 Frag team is able to do it's magic but then it becomes enemy's top 3 priority target. So before annihilating enemy's troop unit I have to have a plan where I'm going to shoot those S9D2 shots before unit is wiped. Same applies to shotgun team and Heavy thunder hammer and ...well, all melee focused teams because very efficient so specialised (and in case of DW expensive) melee teams are good targets for enemy (shooting). I use Storm shields (at least 2 per unit) to buy my team some time to run and attack next unit.

 

My reasoning behind this two roles logic is that we have so few units compared to all the other Astartes chapters that we cannot specialise everything even though that would be the most (point) efficient way. We have to specialise be efficient but we cannot specialise everything. That's why I mix stalker bolters into my plasma team not only because they synergise nicely with plasma's 24" range (same as stalker + vengeance) but also because they are able to target supporting fire elsewhere. Another example is using stalker or even heavy bolter/infernus heavy bolter team from Corvus to wipe enemy long range shooting team (stalkers, scouts, looters, ...) because after that unit becomes small annoying firebase in cover that enemy just cannot ignore. To wipe that unit enemy have to use significant amount of firepower of melee units which, again, gives me time to advance my attack elsewhere. When designing team roles my reference team is

• x5 Vets: x5 Boltgun, x2 power weapon, x2 SS, sgt

This team can reliably kill 4 horde or 2 marines in shooting phase and 2 horde or 1 marine in fight phase if I choose to fight. So team can go one-on-one against marines and probably win but cannot do the same against say 20+ models horde mob because return attacks wipe team off table. There simply is not enough killing power in basic Vet squad against horde and that's when specialisation begins. If I specialise in horde killing then I invest in x2 Frag cannons (and maybe x3 shotguns because of assault)

• x5 Vets: x2 FC, (x3 Shotgun), x2 power weapon, x2 SS, sgt

and assuming I have transport then I am able to kill up to 11 horde and 4-5 marines by shooting and another 2/1 (horde/marine) in fight phase meaning you can handle that mob too. If I specialise in multi wound models, vehicles and maybe marines then I can take

• x5 Vets: x4 Combi-Plasma, x2 power weapon, x2 SS, sgt

and I am able to kill 3-4 marines in shooting phase but when supercharging can cause several damage to vehicles. So there's no clear answer which type of specialisation is best or better, it depends on what you need. Actually, I see this so that weapons are just tools to generate certain types of killing powers and it's general knowledge of the game and our playstyle that determines which powers and how much you're going to need during the game. As a Deathwatch player I'm of course interested in those types of killing powers that only Deathwatch can generate and then try to play the game tactically so that these powers give me tactical edge to win the game. I think this is the whole point of playing Deathwatch army because at the moment other Astartes chapters do basically everything we do better and at least cheaper which gives them edge over DW. Just my thoughts.

[Mobius0288]

Spacewatch and I have had a lot of conversation about this in another thread, trying to "perfect" squads for killing efficiency. I agree with a lot of what he has said but I'll echo a couple of thoughts as well.

 

There are a couple different ways to view multipurpose. 1 each of 4 different weapons in a 5 man squad definitely multipurpose and would highly recommend NOT doing that. Unfortunately we have to look at this from an army vs army perspective, not an "elite, highly trained cold blooded killer" doing a special op mission. You are going to have casualties every time something shoots you (most of the time). Every special weapon lost is a degradation of unique firepower.

 

We can definitely combine some weapons and still have multi-purpose squads though! Two great examples are stalker bolters/missile launchers in a single unit, as well as bolter/power weapons.

- The stalker bolter and missile launchers have some good synergy and is multipurpose: I can hit infantry with both weapons (support role), or I can split fire so my missile launchers can hit some vehicle targets.

- Similar idea with the bolters and power weapons. The standard bolters are good against a lot of things, but definitely against infantry. If I charge or get charged, though, my shooting ability is completely gone.... I can't fall back and shoot unless I add a VV or another unit intervenes. To combat that problem, I give these guys power weapons and suddenly this unit can shoot and melee with little problems. Realistically I can use chainswords (16-17 attacks) or power axes (11-12 Str 5 AP-2 attacks) with the best efficiency but I think you get the point.

 

So no, our DW guys don't need to have purely one weapon type per unit. But, the unit will need a purpose: advancing/assault, gunline, fire support, anti-vehicle/monster, anti-gunline (melee).

 

Storm Shields, however, can be sprinkled everywhere. More so in your units with multiple heavy/special weapons.

[Claws and Effect]

I'm planning on:

 

A melee-centric unit with bolter and power sword, led by a Blackshield.

 

A short-mid ranged heavy firepower unit with 4 frag cannons, 2 shotguns, and a couple Vanguard with bolt pistol and storm shield.

 

A long distance unit with stalker bolters and a longer ranged weapon, either heavy bolter or missile launcher. Maybe an Infernus to help with overwatch.

[allegedlynerdy]

What I've decided to try out:

 

First team is 5 man, Sergeant has Xenophase and Combimelta, Blackshield with Bolter Powersword, 2 regulars with Bolter Powersword, one with Powersword Stormshield.

 

Second team is 5 man, sergeant has Powersword and Combiplasma, two frag launchers, two Bolter Stormshield

 

Third team is ten man, Sergeant has Xenophase and Combiplasma, Blackshield with Bolter and Powersword, 2x Bolter Powersword, 2x Combiplasma Powersword, 2x Bolter Stormshield, 2x Powersword Stormshield.

 

They'd fly in Blackstars, each one having some sort of HQ with them.

[ONDIG]

Watchmaster definitely. I wish we could use a regular apothecary insrtead of 'i dont fit in a corvus'Primaris apothecaries.

[Vel'Cona]

Watchmaster definitely. I wish we could use a regular apothecary insrtead of 'i dont fit in a corvus'Primaris apothecaries.

 

Likely to be corrected in the codex.  As ever, the Long Watch continues . . .

[Delta.Skies]

Kill Team 1: sergeant w/ boltgun xeno blade. 2 boltgun / storm shields, 2 frags

 

Kill Team 2: sergeant w/ boltgun xeno blade combat shield. Blackshield (deathwatch champion) two lightning claws. 2 boltgun and power axe. 1 boltgun and stormshield

 

Kill Team 3: sergeant w/ chainsword, combat shield and stalker. Vanguard with bolt pistol and chainsword. 2 stalkers with stormshield. 1 stalker with chainsword and 1 heavy bolter.

 

More so the problem I am having is I have a corvus and a razorback. Don't know what I want to transport / beacon in with watch master. Not to mention i have an psychic inquisitor with nemesis hammer and 9 acolytes ready to get in close as well, with librarian. I feel like its versatile for my elite detachments yo get into the mix. While my AM holds a gunline. Since I didn't have a pure DW army, this made it a lil easier.