Long Fangs and your loadouts

[greysquigg]

I've been playing with the idea of splitting my heavy weapons out between two squads of long fangs. 

 

If I take 6 Missile Launchers, I'll be taking 2 units of LF to accommodate their squishiness (easy spearhead detachment to boot). They also get the added bonus of re rolling those 1's which is a pretty nice boon on a bolter unit. 

 

What do you think to this approach or do you think we're still better with hellblasters ;) 

[The Saint Ragnar]

Well for increasing survive-ability that could work as most of the times my opponents shoot at the LFs because they can start easily killing heavy weapons. Also, my one friend seems to hate my missile LFs and always tries to smash them every game.

 

Having those extra bolter bodies means that you opponent might be less willing to dump too much fire into them as they have their 2+ save (from cover) and the likelihood that heavy weapons will die during it is pretty low. 

 

Alternatively you could keep one full squad and invest some points into a TDA WGPL with SS as a giant middle finger to them being shot at. 2+, 3++ with 2 wounds means that guy will be tanking all the AP -1 shooting they would most likely be seeing and for a cheaper cost then another entire squad of LFs. You could even just add a basic WGPL with SS and benefit from the added hardiness against higher AP weapons that might come their way.

 

Point Speculation:

2 Squads:

1 PL, 2 Bolters, 3 Missiles = 159 x 2 = 318

1 Squad:

1 TDA WGPL w/ SS/SB, 6 Missiles = 267

 

Points difference is 51 but you can use that for some Cyberwolves or a couple of bodies for other squads.

 

Personally I have my one squad of 4 missile LFs and their PL who always dies first and started using two squads with 4 HBs, plasma, and combi-plasma to be the distraction from the missiles. Of course it always ends up the missiles still get shot because my opponents are more afraid of that but the number of shots from my other guys ends up saving the day more than the 4 missile shots do so *shrug*

[PeteySödes]

Standard load for me is:

 

TDAWG SS/Cyclone

Naked Ancient

3 PC

2 LC

 

If im hurting for points ill drop the cyclone but having it is really nice. Rerolling ones safely makes the PC insanely dangerous and the 2 las are more of an "all comers" concession but do a lot of work with the rerolls.

 

I'll almost always give them a didicated WGBL for the wounds too. The whole kit is pricey but i can't stress how much damage they reliably put out. It's almost always my MVP. 

[Karhedron]

Rerolling 1s really makes Long Fangs great. The only advice I can offer is that my old mixed-armament squad is not optimal for making use of this rule as the different weapons are more likely to want to fire at different targets. More so than conventional Devastators, Long Fangs want to specialise.

[Gherrick]

I love putting my LFs into a bastion. It pretty much gets ignored due to the T9 and 20 wounds. It has the extra advantage of better LOS than if they were on the ground. Granted, its 200pts, but IMO it makes sure the LFs live for the entire fight.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Depends on their intended purpose. For killing tanks throw 4 with MM is going to seriously mess something up. Combine them with an anti-infantry LF pack in a drop pod and you got a really nice unit of death you can toss in your opponents face. Or even 2x4 with MM if you really want to make something disappear. 

I would bring other pods as well in order to make sure the LFs aren't the only unit in the opponents face. 

 

I haven't tried mixing weapons yet.. I don't really see the point. 

[Gherrick]

I haven't tried mixing weapons yet.. I don't really see the point. 

The main reason to mix weapon loadouts in 8e is for dispersion. A single unit of lascannons, for example, is a very attractive target for the enemy to wipe off the map, but if you have those same lascannons scattered across multiple groups, then they would have to split up their attacks, increasing your overall odds of survival. If you have 2+ units of LFs, you want to make it so losing a single unit doesn't completely cripple your capability.

[Kasper_Hawser]

 

I haven't tried mixing weapons yet.. I don't really see the point. 

The main reason to mix weapon loadouts in 8e is for dispersion. A single unit of lascannons, for example, is a very attractive target for the enemy to wipe off the map, but if you have those same lascannons scattered across multiple groups, then they would have to split up their attacks, increasing your overall odds of survival. If you have 2+ units of LFs, you want to make it so losing a single unit doesn't completely cripple your capability.

 

 

Exactly. Although instead of dispersion, I call it Aggro Management. A full squad of Long Fangs with Lascannons/missile launchers will undoubtedly be target priority. And unlike standard devastators who can have bolter mooks, the Long Fangs are stuck at 7 maximum (the wolf guard), 5 of which can carry heavy weapons. so if you invest ALL 5 lascannon, the moment you lose two models, it's going to hurt massively. 

 

So if I have 3 full squads of Long Fangs armed to the teeth, every Long fang dead after the second is a massive loss. Not to mention less troops or other toys for your ground attack.

 

can't do much about not having extra bodies, but you CAN choose not only NOT to give a heavy weapon to a Long Fang, you can also give him a CHEAPER weapon in the form of the Heavy Bolter. may not be as sexy as a Lascannon, but in a pinch, can still remove the last wound of a MC or take some shots at cover camping mooks.

 

So anyway, here's what I do. 1 Lascannon, 1 Missile, 1 Pasma Cannon, 1 Heavy Bolter, 1 Long fang with just bolter and the pack sergeant. Multiply by 3. that will give you three Lascannons, 3 Missile Launchers, 3  HBs and 3 Plasma Cannons. The beauty of plasma cannon is that it can swing both ways, handling not in overcharging and killing elite troops, monsters and even vehicles, but also help with thinning hordes. Not reliable but the key thing is flexibility.

 

You may think it is schizophrenic and you are right. You might say even wasteful of the Long Fang's natural reroll 1s to hit. But think about it. If you need to take down a tank or MC, the Lascannon, Missile and overcharged plasma can focus on the tank/MC/multiwound troop. The heavy bolter isn't completely useless and can also aid its shooting OR you can use it to plink wounds off something else. In the end, you are not REALLY wasting anything of its schizo guns.

 

If you focus on hordes or infantry, you still have 3 weapons relatively good at it, the missile with frag (average 3 shots hit), heavy bolter (average 2 shots each), and Plasma cannon which should on average also 2 shots. The Lascannon can always shoot at something else and not be useless.

 

Each of these will come up to about 160 points, totaling 480 points. Less if you forget about the heavy bolter or change the lascannon/missile launcher to something cheaper like Plasma Cannon.  As opposed to three squads of 215 points for 5XLascannons. This will set you back 645 point or 165 points increase. And what else do Long Fangs need? A LIEUTENANT!

 

A very valuable battle leader will then ensure the shots actually count.

 

Don't forget with natural reroll ones, moving and shooting on 4+ is no longer a big issue either.

 

I've had some good fun with this, where most of the time, my Long Fangs do not get shot altogether, or rather the empty bolter guy and sergeant bites the dust first before my heavy weapons. and in the end, they will also feel unsatisfied having to fire at my schizo long fangs. Which works psychologically with me as well.

 

Aggro management. Never thought I would apply my experience during WoW days as a paladin tank into 40K.

 

Another thing to keep in mind when using Long Fangs, do not hesitate to deploy them inside transports, of LOS or even outflanking them, because rerolling 1s on the move mitigates the accuracy issues considerably.

[PeteySödes]

Interesting theory Kasper. I havent thought much on threat mitigation as much, people just know what LFs can do around me and know they need to kill them. Thats where my TDAWG w/ SS comes in to hopefully make it not worth using the typically one shot/one marine type weapons. Obviously sometimes its great, sometimes i wonder why i even bothered :D

 

Somewhat similarly though I think you can weigh the overkill. Thats why i do the LC/PC split since it kinda works for anything without wasting tons of shots or fire discipline having to multi target.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

^^^FearPeteySodes, I agree. 

 

The reason a LF unit with mixed weapons becomes a lower target priority is because it is a less effective unit. Why would you want to take or equip a unit with main consideration of making it a lower target priority to the enemy? 

The better option is to compliment their presence with other must deal with units to force your opponent to make a wrong decision which places your opponent in a tactical disadvantage. 

If you're Long Fangs aren't being focused on then some other dangerous unit in your own arsenal is. 

[PeteySödes]

Yea thas why i basically have 240 points reserved for the Axedread and pod every. single. time. :D

 

Gotta deal with it and if youve played with me you know its coming so tend to deploy in a more conservative manner. Then the long fangs sigh as the pressure is released a bit.

[Kasper_Hawser]

Interesting theory Kasper. I havent thought much on threat mitigation as much, people just know what LFs can do around me and know they need to kill them. Thats where my TDAWG w/ SS comes in to hopefully make it not worth using the typically one shot/one marine type weapons. Obviously sometimes its great, sometimes i wonder why i even bothered

 

Somewhat similarly though I think you can weigh the overkill. Thats why i do the LC/PC split since it kinda works for anything without wasting tons of shots or fire discipline having to multi target.

 

So far it has worked reasonable well 50:50 in my games.