Thousand Sons and the spring FAQ

[BoomWolf]

Well, warptime got weaker, but overall-I think we are getting a LOT of value from this FAQ.

 

A "shoot the DSers" ability can't target a character. I lost a game recently HARD because of this (lost my terminator sorcerer warlord who had the most important spells on him because I forgot that stratagem existed...)

 

Everyone else's psykers getting worse makes ours ever better by the fact less enemy psykers=less chances to get denied. especially with eldar ones getting point wacks as well.

 

The much dreaded poxwalker farm has been killed. thank heaven.

 

The limit to DS on first is less painful to us than others, as we can fully afford to wait, unlike some others-or given the fact we can't get DSed on the first turn, need far less bubblewrapping and can afford to have just a block of rubrics standing in from of our sorcerers (ahriman and princes, lets be honest) and just march forward guns blazing.

 

 

And above all, we are probably the most CP hungry army in the entire game, and more CPs are easy picking now with 5CP battalions. not to mention, it improves the already mandatory HotTE even more.

[Skerr]

If you run two battalions then 4 extra CP is awesome for us!  Perils mitigation, strategems, morale mitigation... etc...

 

Ans as you mentioned HotTE has more chances of success.

 

Anyone see anything in regards to 1k faction it self?  Where are they putting points changes?

[The Yncarne]

I’m thinking of dropping the webway and trying to figure out how to squeeze more points to afford the newer fire raptor cost. Also looking at my RT-era rhinos and wondering if they need to be repainted as clown cars for the current rubric size.

 

I’ve shelved my WIP raptor detachment, but those aren’t ‘Sons specific.

[Sonoftherubric21]

If you run two battalions then 4 extra CP is awesome for us!  Perils mitigation, strategems, morale mitigation... etc...

 

Ans as you mentioned HotTE has more chances of success.

 

Anyone see anything in regards to 1k faction it self?  Where are they putting points changes?

 

The points changes were very minor. Nothing for us I saw. 

 

I think I read that GW said something about the big release at the end of the year for Chapter Approved will be when all points shift. I expect us to get a handful of useful changes. 

[Ania Redfang]

A lot of stuff which is bringing the game back to the restrictions of earlier editions. 2nd turn Deep Strike, limiting detachments and numbers of units, less reliable charging after DS (not normally possible in earlier versions of the game).

 

Seems like GW wanted a more free and open rulesset but we couldn't be trusted with it so now it has to start being locked down. (A good thing! IMO)

[BoomWolf]

 

If you run two battalions then 4 extra CP is awesome for us!  Perils mitigation, strategems, morale mitigation... etc...

 

Ans as you mentioned HotTE has more chances of success.

 

Anyone see anything in regards to 1k faction it self?  Where are they putting points changes?

 

The points changes were very minor. Nothing for us I saw. 

 

I think I read that GW said something about the big release at the end of the year for Chapter Approved will be when all points shift. I expect us to get a handful of useful changes. 

 

 

 

Well, its not effecting us-but it's not minor at all.

 

Eldar power lists took a sever point increase. heck a "tame" eldar list with "just" 3 units of  minimal reapers and 3 psyker variants are over 150 points increased-that's means eldar has less bodies on the field, and as such less dominant-leading to the meta shifting.

[Raven1]

Well, its not effecting us-but it's not minor at all.

 

Eldar power lists took a sever point increase. heck a "tame" eldar list with "just" 3 units of minimal reapers and 3 psyker variants are over 150 points increased-that's means eldar has less bodies on the field, and as such less dominant-leading to the meta shifting.

Not moving after deepstrike certainly effects us, that and the eldar who are running Ynnari might still be fine because Corsair eldar datasheets from the FW Index got a reduction points across the aboard.

[Archaeinox]

I just played a game with the new FAQ state

 

20 man unit of rubrics dropped in via 1 CP for Webway. Dark Matter Crystal demon prince with wings appears next to them. Ahriman slings Prescience on them. Prince has Gaze of Fate and Warptime. Slaughtered some guyz, re-rolling 1s because of the prince. Ahriman is elsewhere near terminators. Puts Glamour of Tz up on Terminators. Aspiring Sorcerer for rubrics casts Weaver up on his big block.

 

Next turn the prince charges out

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

I just played a game with the new FAQ state

 

20 man unit of rubrics dropped in via 1 CP for Webway. Dark Matter Crystal demon prince with wings appears next to them. Ahriman slings Prescience on them. Prince has Gaze of Fate and Warptime. Slaughtered some guyz, re-rolling 1s because of the prince. Ahriman is elsewhere near terminators. Puts Glamour of Tz up on Terminators. Aspiring Sorcerer for rubrics casts Weaver up on his big block.

 

Next turn the prince charges out

Nice. The Ru-Brick is for real.

[Skerr]

Great to hear, let us know if your 20 man brick loses any models to morale.

[Archaeinox]

I burned the 2pts to keep them around, they lost 10 folks. I had more CPs to start with thanks to big FAQ (so did the enemy) so Third Eye relic is a must.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Played a game post FAQ against the dark eldar book.  The extra CP are incredible.  And regardless of certain other lists having far more CP.....they already did! it doesn't really help them anywhere near as much as it helps us proportionally.  That extra 2 points is just so useful. We can easily end up with 9 points in 2k. Which is not to shabby.  (NOT Including the Helm) 

Was a solid back and forth game.  It ended in a tie. 9 to 9. Tactical Objectives. 

Ahriman Spell-Sniped out the Archon turn 2.  I do so love that trick. An above-average roll with firestorm (2-3 wounds) + infernal gaze is enough to nail most characters, with a doombolt or bolt of change after for effect (Casting on an 6 usually if you place correctly). Who needs snipers.....I have raw hatred I can sling across the board 

 

I will say that against super competitive lists the smite spam allows us to keep up if were on the backfoot. those extra wounds add up to something substantial.  For us being able to use smite on a 5 is incredibly nice and potent.  

[Skerr]

Awesome, give us an idea of the lists!

[Sonoftherubric21]

His list; Ravager, 3 raiders full (1 kabalites, 1 of wyches, 1 of wracks) 3 talos, 1 of the fliers with lots of guns (no idea name of it) Did the "three warlord traits" ability. 5 scourge, 5 mandrakes, 3 grotesques, 

I don't remember much else, was 2k. 

My list was; 

 

Ahriman, Prince, 20 rubrics (2 units of 10 reaper in each, 2 flamers in each) each in rhino. Defiler, Mutalith vortex beast, 20 tzaangors, plasma/missile helbrute. Shaman on disc, and 9 Enlightened (bows) Cannot remember what else i took off hand if anything.  

Game was a solid back and forth, blow for blow.  He complained about my "smite spam" the entire game but hes known for being salty on occasion, bare in mind our ease of smite use allows us to keep up with the more competitive lists.  I got first turn. plugged one raider (kabalite raideR) right out of the gate. 

Was a Tactical objective game, had a tiny lead the entire game but model count and damage wise I was losing, but playing to objectives i had a solid lead all game. 

In a hilariously ironic twist the Mutalith Vortex beast died....proceeded to  explode....causing death to a large portion of both HIS and MY army.....

I tied by a single dice roll on a single remaining rubric marine giving me line-breaker.  9-9. 

For some reason during the game (with me warning him twice) he baited out the Archon with his 2++ shadow field...I then proceeded to smite him off the table.  No idea why he did that when he knew I could smite from halfway across the board with two warnings.  

 

The game put me on the backfoot, dark eldar are a very nasty high-damage output codex with relatively cheap units for the damage they output.  I think their codex Is better then ours; that being said we are no slouches and can keep up with liberal use of smite, and applying pressure at right points to their lists. Spell-sniping their characters I think will be important given some of the tricks their characters can do.  A mistake I made was not killing the succubus when I had the chance through a spell snipe and going for a unit instead. 

Their incredible speed guarantees them the charge so we just have to suck that and deal with it. Smiting in melee is a god send. 

Point for the future; If you are playing against dark eldar and using rubricae and Exalted; Take a Warpflame pistol on EVERY character/Aspiring. There is literally no reason to not abuse those, for a measly 6 points your getting +D6 str 3 hits against a T3 model in melee (which you will be; cause they are stupid fast)   I did not this past time; I will in the future every time I play against dark eldar. (I already take it pretty frequently this is just additional incentive's to use it more) 

[Re'Koleq't]

Nice. Thanks for the heads up. One of my buddy's has DE and was talking about his codex yesterday so I bet he'll roll them out soon.

[Ahzek451]

Dang thats brutal, and that list wasn't even venom/raider spam. I imagine us vs the that would not go so well.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Dang thats brutal, and that list wasn't even venom/raider spam. I imagine us vs the that would not go so well.

 

Actually I would argue we will be just fine against raider spam. Our  bolters kill them with little to no real work put in, their troops almost never get acutal saves against our guns.  That and a 2+ armor save on all our basic infantry? yeah I really couldn't care less about all that fancy poison shooting.  (he hes firing dark lances and disintegratiors  at our rubrics he ISN'T firing them at our enlightened or tanks) Unless hes spamming blasters which are *NOT* cheap on units that die to a cough. 

 

Coven lists will probably be hard for us to deal with, they have decent Invul saves (4+ for one of them making all their troops be fairly reliable and tough) along with a decent FNP save (I think 6+/5+ most of the game?) this is only from playing 2 games against dark eldar.  Talos are NASTY....they have tons of attacks, are less then 100 points each (95 with basic gun I think) and they hit like a melee dreadnought for far less points and almost as many wounds with a base 5++ save and a 4++ with correct obssession, followed by a 6+ or 5+ FNP save. Its rough!

 

If you spam goat infantry (Oh the Irony!) you will probably lose to dark eldar. A 5++ barely matters against something with tons of shots and no AP.  But our Rubricae will laugh at it.  

 

One point on vehicles; If we try to out-shoot them with our basic tanks...we will lose. Dark lances are AP-4, hit on a 3+ while moving, and are str 8.  Everyone here knows I am biased but I would vote for Daemon Engines again. 33% chance to "Nope!" a dark lance shot starts to look very nice when a Dark Lance can D6 peg a Predator or a basic Helbrute very easily, (Forgeworld Contemptors would also be a decent idea falling into same general points cost as a Daemon engine)  

[Ahzek451]

Its not so much the overwhelming poison shots (actually it is, 2+ save or not, our troops are not cheap and they play the odds as they always have when facing things like termies). Its more the venoms. Non-degrading vehicles with a hit modifier for cheap, long range, and board control. Raider spam is easier sure, its the venoms that will get ya. A smart venom spam player will use the longer range. I was very used to this list when the dark eldar got its last codex and its still a pain. The list you mentioned is a decent balance competatively and gives you a few units to catch up to instead of maximising the hive tactic. It would be far more of a struggle to take on a ton of venoms at 36". They can dump off small squads of wracks on objectives to weather the storm as venoms encircle and just pepper all day at more than arms length.

 

Small pocket sized flamer squads arriving 2nd turn can deal with this. The fly keyword, movement length and auto hits is juicy on venom spam.

[Ahzek451]

I would suggest a fire raptor against dark eldar, if not for the price hike. Maybe still a viable option. Almost reliably taking down 2-4 venoms/raiders a turn.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Yeah to be fair I have only seen 1 venom recently. are they still transports? if so they are definitely spammable. 

Id expect once we see a list with 10+ venoms in it at a tourney GW would follow up with a subsequent nerf to that jazz as we have seen so far, probably a price hike if they are that effective. It seemed like a good vehicle. 

 

I think Enlightened with  bows are potentially a great answer to venoms, and also quite spammable with accurate shooting even against venoms. Our Shamans directly counter that "-1 to hit" chicanery.

 

As for the overwhelming poison shots; While you are right weight of fire does the trick....if your that close to us? your at 12 inchs. we fire back the raiders more then likely gone and the squad inside is probably close to dead.  

 

Added note for us against Dark Eldar; Be afraid of wyches....cheap wych units will lock down our super expensive squads VERY quickly. Dark Matter Crystal is a winner here, they cant stop us from dark-mattering out of combat. 

[Ahzek451]

Thats just it, they wouldnt be as close at 12". The venoms are indeed transports and keeping an ear to the competitive ground it seems the rise of venom spam is back. Venoms would take two splinter cannons and kill you at a safe 36" which would include shredding enlightened. Dark eldar have a load of character sniping options, so also expect the shamens to go down.

 

I like to build all comer lists and hate tooling to an army...but damn do dark eldar make you want to. Currently running a list of two vortex beasts and tzaangor units and the poison is rough with that lineup. Maybe the return of a couple rhinos or hell, dreadclaws or a kharybdis might be entertaining. As you mentioned before, mech it up! Toying the idea of messing with a spartan as well. Anybody notice in the revent faq they received daemonic machine spirit?

[Sonoftherubric21]

Thats just it, they wouldnt be as close at 12". The venoms are indeed transports and keeping an ear to the competitive ground it seems the rise of venom spam is back. Venoms would take two splinter cannons and kill you at a safe 36" which would include shredding enlightened. Dark eldar have a load of character sniping options, so also expect the shamens to go down.

 

It may be an issue in high level metas, but luckily for me locally its not a thing. I know the local Dark Eldar players (3 I can recall) one owns a single venom, and the other owns 2 at most.  Not a huge concern for me at least locally.  though i am sure at high level play you're right.  

 

In a vacuum that does look great, but its still a dark eldar vehicle. My question; how many points are venoms? I actually dont know their point costs. Raiders are still 80 or so points I *think* but I don't know how much venoms are. 

 

Also what sniper abilities to dark eldar have??? I haven't seen one yet.  (I have seen them grind chaff though!!! they can do that all day long, and plug tanks easy enough...)

[Ahzek451]

Wracks and homucculi can spam the ever living crap out of hex rifles. Sniper guns that can target char and potentially cause mortal wounds.So even their troop units can chill in a venom or on foot and snipe characters. 5 pts for this 36" weapon.

 

Venoms are 75 with two splinter cannons. 50 pts for a 5 man troop wrack unit with hexrifle. So 125 total.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Yeah havent seen a hex rifle yet. Stats? # of shots? (I imagine thats a low number) 

Well the good news is they cant spam empty Venoms. so that will limit them a bit. (must have 1 slot per transport I believe?) 

 

The potential is definitely there.  I think a good option for us in this case is deepstrikes, matter crystals, focusing on objectives.  that and board size. 36 Inch guns are nice but standard regulation boards are 4x4 or 4x6 for most games, can only run so far 

[Plaguecaster]

If you are worried about venoms then Butcher cannons can really deal some serious damage to venoms if you have something that can use it like contemptors or the other FW walkers, since the majority of the FW walkers have decent BS anyway the -1 to hit doesn't really faze them and since the Butcher cannon is 36 ap-1 Str8 D2 heavy 4 it should easily take them down if you suddenly start seeing them starting to be spammed a bit more