Big FAQ & Drukhari Errata Now Available

[Halandaar]

Aside from the "Big FAQ", the first Errata for the Codex has arrived too, granting the Talos & Cronos <FLY> among a couple of other clarifications.

 

I feel like the main thing that's happened is the stealth-nerf to Raiding Force. Before it was a slightly better use of 3 HQs and 3 Troops units to take them as 3 patrols for the +4 CP, but now that battalions gain 5CP rather than 3, the value of Raiding Force is now inferior unless you wish to run Kabal, Cult and Coven at once.

 

Edit; On reflection it's obviously not always a worse choice depending on what particular units you have available or want to run, but in the context of my most recent army plans, Raiding Force is now inferior:

 

BEFORE

• Kabal Patrol (Archon, 10 Warriors)
• Kabal Patrol (Archon, 10 Warriors)
• Cult Patrol (Succubus, 10 Wyches, 6 Reavers, 10 Hellions)
• +4CP

AFTER

• Kabal Batallion (2 Archon, 5 Warriors, 5 Warriors, 10 Warriors)
• Cult Outriders - (Succubus, 10 Wyches, 3 Reavers, 3 Reavers, 10 Hellions)
• +6CP

[micahwc]

The issue I see with their recommended tournament restrictions is that if we have a kabal detachment and we include a succubus or haemonculi, we lose our obsessions. With only being able to bring 2 or 3 of  a datasheet, we will run out of Archons trying to run two battalion detachments. Same problem with succubi cults and Haemonculi covens. Heretic Astartes, regular Astartes, Guard, (my other three armies) all have additional HQ choices they can bring without losing their chapter tactics or regimental doctrines. Astartes and Heretics can bring Lords, Sorcerer/librarians, techpriest, and lieutenants/aspiring champions. Guard have a host of named characters, commisars, Company commanders, and Primaris Psykers.

 

We have Archons and no named Archons.

 

Raiding Force was cool and thematic for the week it lasted, but I don't see why I would take it over a battalion anymore. It's going to count as three detachments, and at that point I'd rather get a battalions worth of kabal/cult/coven units or a spearhead/etc.

[Ranwulf]

The issue I see with their recommended tournament restrictions is that if we have a kabal detachment and we include a succubus or haemonculi, we lose our obsessions. With only being able to bring 2 or 3 of  a datasheet, we will run out of Archons trying to run two battalion detachments. Same problem with succubi cults and Haemonculi covens. Heretic Astartes, regular Astartes, Guard, (my other three armies) all have additional HQ choices they can bring without losing their chapter tactics or regimental doctrines. Astartes and Heretics can bring Lords, Sorcerer/librarians, techpriest, and lieutenants/aspiring champions. Guard have a host of named characters, commisars, Company commanders, and Primaris Psykers.

 

We have Archons and no named Archons.

 

Raiding Force was cool and thematic for the week it lasted, but I don't see why I would take it over a battalion anymore. It's going to count as three detachments, and at that point I'd rather get a battalions worth of kabal/cult/coven units or a spearhead/etc.

I thought the limit was 2 per detachment. 

[micahwc]

I'll double check but I thought it said "per army" not per detachment. Just checked, it limits the total number of detachments in your army and the "the number of times a player's army can include a particular datasheet". You can get 4 of the same datasheet at 2,000 points so I guess you could still go with 2 battalions at 2000 without losing your obsession; but your third detachment would have to have one of the other HQ choices leading it.

 

Edit:

 

I guess overall I'm in favor of it as it prevents spamming non-troops and puts a hard limitation on Supreme Command detachments.

[Calyptra]

The Codex errata all seems pretty reasonable to me. Pain engines getting Fly is a bit of a surprise.

 

When I head over to the Dark City I'll find out if the reaction to the ossefactor clarification is "some people are upset or disappointed" or "a great wailing and gnashing of teeth."

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I'll double check but I thought it said "per army" not per detachment. Just checked, it limits the total number of detachments in your army and the "the number of times a player's army can include a particular datasheet". You can get 4 of the same datasheet at 2,000 points so I guess you could still go with 2 battalions at 2000 without losing your obsession; but your third detachment would have to have one of the other HQ choices leading it.

 

Edit:

 

I guess overall I'm in favor of it as it prevents spamming non-troops and puts a hard limitation on Supreme Command detachments.

 

The unit per army limit is 1-1000 points up to 2 per army, 1001- 2000 up to 3 per army, 2001-3000 up to 4.

 

This really hurts DE. In order to have two different Kabal battalions you have to use Drazhar as your 4th HQ at the standard 2k points. Armies like DE with limited choices and/or a subfaction problem will struggle with this. Similar problems arise if you want to play 2 Cults, or 2 covens unless you use a special character to bail you out.

 

I am disappointed with that restriction.

 

Gunline armies with lots of options are the winners of this FAQ.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Keep in mind those changes to the multiple units is BETA rules only, not yet in effect. Same with the deep strike rules, you don't have to play with those rules yet. 

 

Changes to battalion cp on the other hand is in effect and a bit of a bummer, I liked running 3 patrols because it gave me extra cp, but now I don't think I'll use it as much anymore. 

[shaun03]

Yeah, hinder us with the restrictions, and it all ready causing rule lawyers bitching about special characters still counting as regular characters because of key word. So fill the spot. 

 

The osserfactor just make sense this way 1 and 1 only. People were acting like it was choom from 30k.

 

Clearing up the void raven bomb was spot on.

 

Adjustment to CP, hurts the raiding party for competitive play, but you can still build CP farm list with cheep warriors, or jump on 100 Wych train. 

 

 We got Flying talos.

 

Still some time until we got what FW is doing with reaper and Tantalus

[Slips]

The Datasheet restriction is a bit lame but I can see where its coming from due to a few outlier armies having 6+ of the same unit *cough*Flyrantspam*cough* but bumping up the limit by 1 at 2k+ should be sufficient.

 

In regards to my DE army, all it really does is, once implemented, I have to sub out a single unit of Scourges since my current 2k list has 4x 5 Man Squads across 2 Detachments.

 

Otherwise, my Double Battalion of 1 Kabal and 1 Cult army just got 4 free CPs. So I can't complain.

 

Labyrinthine Cunning was nerfed a bit but hey.

 

Otherwise, I don't think DE is being affected by these changes all that much unless you were running armies that had 3+ of the same datasheet; a ruling that is still in Beta so subject to change.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

Shaun it is a Data Sheet restriction not a key word restriction. So the special characters are okay.

 

Flying Talos are cool. And it makes sense too.

[shaun03]

Shaun it is a Data Sheet restriction not a key word restriction. So the special characters are okay.

 

Flying Talos are cool. And it makes sense too.

 

Missed that, it was tough to read with all the petty crying going on. 

[Withershadow]

The Codex errata all seems pretty reasonable to me. Pain engines getting Fly is a bit of a surprise.

 

When I head over to the Dark City I'll find out if the reaction to the ossefactor clarification is "some people are upset or disappointed" or "a great wailing and gnashing of teeth."

I am so done with that forum. Initially I thought it was a good source for Drukhari info, but there are like 5 decent project blogs and maybe 1 guy posting battlereports where he repeatedly beats up on the same slow friend. The rest is an even split between the salty hipsters who complain about every damn thing (like not being the “exclusive” army anymore, or the ossefactor, because a potentially endless stream of mortal wounds is totally only worth 7 points!), or a bunch of failed ESL students who are still confused why flayed skull transports don’t buff the occupants. Waste of time.

 

Anyway, the FAQ is pretty great. Raiding Parties are still a way to play that no one else has, and is a good way to bring a variety of models at low point levels. The fact that we now have an even better option is not a bad thing.

 

Labyrinthine Cunning got pared back but so did every other similar ability.

 

The no 1st turn deep strikes helps us more than hurts us, because we are very fast and don’t have great bubblewrap options.

[shaun03]

The changes to ds, are going to shake up the competitive seen pretty hard, I think GW went a little over the top after  LVO were BA was just dropping and smashing everything turn 1.  

 

But yeah were benefit from this greatly, we don't have waste points on useless screens. Bubblewrap choices no longer need to throw away units.  

 

I think they went in right direction with limiting the soups list. 

[micahwc]

I think the deep strike benefits us more than hurts us, we can still get a turn 1 charge without it. Now there will be less armies getting a turn 1 charge and it fits the Drukhari raiding nature.

[Withershadow]

 

Aside from the "Big FAQ", the first Errata for the Codex has arrived too, granting the Talos & Cronos <FLY> among a couple of other clarifications.

 

I feel like the main thing that's happened is the stealth-nerf to Raiding Force. Before it was a slightly better use of 3 HQs and 3 Troops units to take them as 3 patrols for the +4 CP, but now that battalions gain 5CP rather than 3, the value of Raiding Force is now inferior unless you wish to run Kabal, Cult and Coven at once.

So it's not really nerfed.

 

It's like you're eating ice cream that you really like, and then someone puts a cake on the table, and folks are all like, "this ice cream tastes like :cuss now!"  Having a new great option doesn't make the old one bad. It's still a great little piece of flavor that allows you to bring some variety in small games. I'll take it over combat squads or whatever.

[Halandaar]

 

So it's not really nerfed.

 

It's like you're eating ice cream that you really like, and then someone puts a cake on the table, and folks are all like, "this ice cream tastes like now!"  Having a new great option doesn't make the old one bad. It's still a great little piece of flavor that allows you to bring some variety in small games. I'll take it over combat squads or whatever.

 

 

Well no, but to continue your analogy, Pain Cake with a Scoop of Coven used to be worse value than the brand new Drukhari 3-Scoop Sundae. Now it's better, and that new thing isn't as attractive any more.

 

I agree that it's still a perfectly decent way to get all 3 flavours on the table and still be rewarded, rather than penalised, for doing so.

[Calyptra]

I would just like to chime in to state my appreciation of the phrase "pain cake with a scoop of Coven."

 

I really like the increased CPs for Brigades and Battalions. It's a little disappointing that the Raiding Force, being among other things an alternate Battalion for our multiple keyword army, didn't receive a corresponding increase. I think the concern might be that "3 scoop" armies would be on uneven CP footing compared to other factions, but I have absolutely no idea if that's the case.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I can only imagine that if this is brought out from Beta, then the Dark Eldar will receive some compensation to the Raiding Force in the next Chapter Approved, even if just to bring the CP's up to par.

[Withershadow]

Well, the patrol in this example still has the advantage of fewer and stronger units, and you can have two different obsessions for the Kabals. Cost is 2CPs.

[Halandaar]

It's probably okay as-is; essentially you're spending a CP (versus the 5 from battalion) to gain access to 3 Obsessions rather than 2, and it's still 4 more CP than any other force running 3 Patrols would get. It gives you a bit more flexibility in which bonuses you want on which units.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Pre-faq I was running 3 patrols plus an outrider, what I'll probably do now is a battalion, outrider and maybe a patrol if I want to fit in a small coven force. Not really a big deal I think, yeah it would be nice if raiding force still offered more CP but I don't have a big issue with just shifting things around a bit to get a couple more cp. 

[Calyptra]

The Raiding Force, while more restrictive than a Battalion, is still the least restrictive way to have access to all the units in the codex (without giving up Obsessions).

 

The increased CP for a Battalion (which I think is a good thing) is arguably encouraging Dark Eldar players to run spammier armies for the CP benefit.

 

The question we have to deal with when making an army is, "How do I include the various units in my codex in the same army without giving up my Obsessions or losing CPs?" If my army is 3 HQS and 3 Troops, I lose either a CP or my Obsessions to opportunity cost unless those HQs and Troops are all using the same datasheet.

 

It's not the end of the world. It's just annoying, and it feels like it's rewarding less diverse armies, which I don't think was their goal.

[WarriorFish]

Given the composite nature of DE, I'm thinking that chasing the CPs may be a bad idea. Unless you're stacking really heavy on a Kabal for example (though I can't see anyone going big on the other two?) it might be hard to do anyway. At least not without sacrifices in versatility. I think it's better to go for the DE build, make the most of the Obsessions and have a good theme to your army :)

[Calyptra]

There's always that risk, when explaining your thoughts on the Internet, of sounding a lot more worked up about something than you actually are.

 

My armies are based first on lore and theme (and what's painted) and then I try to come up with something viable from there. I'll get out lot more out of my game experience from playing a fluffy, thematic army than I will from an extra CP.

 

I love the way the new book is structured in part because I was writing army lists like that anyway.

 

So it's fine. They can keep that extra CP. Maybe I wasn't even going to spend it. Maybe I didn't even want it. It's FINE. I play Dark Eldar; losing out on a CP isn't going to stop me. (Except maybe from winning. But that's also fine.)

[Withershadow]

I am thinking about going heavy with Wych cult, actually.

 

I got 30 Wyches and 18 Reavers.  That's a battalion of Strife and a Red Grief Outrider.  Warlord's detachment could be either Black Heart Ravager/Razorwing spearhead, or Flayed Skull Kabal battalion.  If the Kabal is Flayed Skull, the Raiders would probably come from them too.