Palwatch Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 You can be 'set up' without arriving from reserves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeltaRange Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I'm super pumped for this change. It's going to make the game a ton more fun to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAetherick Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 From the newly updated codex space marines FAQ: Q: Can the Auspex Scan Stratagem be used to shoot an enemy unit that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, for example, when using a teleport homer? A: Yes. I believe you can only can only use auspex on units arriving as reinforcements/reserves so unfortunately RaW I think this limits our turn 1 upon wings of fire as well. They Grey knight forum is discussing how it affects their gates of infinity and shunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palwatch Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Hopefully. Certainly might mean I have to think more about what I'm doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeltaRange Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Going to have to disagree with you here Palwatch. The rules says: "Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere)." If you are using Upon Wings of Fire, you're leaving and then arriving on the battlefield. So if that's on your first turn, you're deploying in your deployment zone. Strike from the Shadows happens BEFORE the game, not during Turn 1, that's the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thHorseman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Yup. Melta has it right. Another nail in the BA coffin. And we had such high hopes this edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendent Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 From the newly updated codex space marines FAQ: Q: Can the Auspex Scan Stratagem be used to shoot an enemy unit that is removed from the battlefield and then set up again, for example, when using a teleport homer? A: Yes. I believe you can only can only use auspex on units arriving as reinforcements/reserves so unfortunately RaW I think this limits our turn 1 upon wings of fire as well. They Grey knight forum is discussing how it affects their gates of infinity and shunts. Auspex Scan used the term "set up this turn" which can (and is) being argued is different from "arriving." There's also the argument that stratagems take precedence over core rules as they're intended to be able to modify them. To me this seems pretty obvious but apparently it's a lot more contentious than I'd have thought. Basically the FAQ needs an FAQ because GW wasn't quite careful enough with their verbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed72 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Keep in mind that these are Beta rules! As we have seen, they are constantly working on balance from feedback :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palwatch Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I'll wait for clarification. Again it's only beta. No one us being forced to play it yet. Forgive me for trying to see some positive here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subsided Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 It's a beta rule.. a very bad beta rule. Just don't use it. In fact seeing how my group used the Smite beta rule and it STILL changed is even more reason not to use it until an official release. Shooting has always been the deciding factor for games in my neighborhood. Charging only gave a free shooting phase as well as a chance (I swear I fail 8/10 changes) to fail anyway. Don't over think it. Just pretend it's not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeltaRange Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Let's see how this actually ends up working out. I think it's really positive, even for Blood Angels. Plus, a bunch of Eldar points costs went up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ornithologist Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I'm surprisingly okay with the half the Power level on the board thing (though I forget how much they jump from 1 to 2 models for our good units) And I even see what they wanted when they wrote up the beta Deepstrike rule.. But man is it ever awful execution of it. I would be okay with the deep strike rule if it were outside the opponents Deployement zone, rather than in your own deployement zone. Rule s is makes a first turn deepstrike objectively worse than just deploying normally. Finally, I know the way My Meta deals with Beta Rules, I'm stuck with them. On the Plus side, I suppose I can start playing hardmode gunline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 All of a sudden I think six man intercessors squads are going to be a very valuable thing, along with six man scouts squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thHorseman Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I guess I could bring a nasty FW knight to occupy an opponent for 1 turn. Then just play as pre FAQ at the start of T2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Love the new rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bremon Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Vanilla update shows that Hellfire Shells and Flakk Missile get two shots off with a cherub; that’s been a point of contention in discussions I’ve seen so, at least that benefits us, and the additional CP help us as well. No update to our FAQ regarding Killshot Baal Preds clarifications, etc. though. I don’t think the DS rules hurt us that much. Doesn’t hurt me anyway. I usually DS turn two, and first turn is used to shred chaff and blow up big stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 All of a sudden I think six man intercessors squads are going to be a very valuable thing, along with six man scouts squads. Why 6-man out of interest? I run 2 each of both Intercessors and Scouts and they are great, I am just curious what it is about 6 in a squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subsided Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 All of a sudden I think six man intercessors squads are going to be a very valuable thing, along with six man scouts squads. Why 6-man out of interest? I run 2 each of both Intercessors and Scouts and they are great, I am just curious what it is about 6 in a squad? It brings the PL of the entire unit up so you can have more in reserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedzilla Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 All of a sudden I think six man intercessors squads are going to be a very valuable thing, along with six man scouts squads. Why 6-man out of interest? I run 2 each of both Intercessors and Scouts and they are great, I am just curious what it is about 6 in a squad? I think he means because the power level will double but the points cost does not increase too much. Leaving more power level deployed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 The rules on Deep Striking will hurt us to some extent but it gives us more reason to use Forlorn Fury and UWOF (even if not on T1). I must admit I am glad of the changes to some extent, so many games end up being an escalating war of Reserves. Time for something different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedzilla Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 So does Gift of Foresight still stack with Black Rage? I would think so, since they aren't multiple rolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kappel Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I have read, and re-read the Upon Wings of Fire Stratagem now. I think we still can use this to make our turn 1 charge. If we can, it is massive. Then Bood Angels are almost a top of the food chain army. Remember that because the unit is still set-up, and therefore can be shot at, if your opponent takes first turn, I actually think it is as GW intended. Your opponent has the change to redeploy, shoot and do other stuff before you attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Gift of Foresight specifically states that it works in conjunction with the black rage, so I would say that’s a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin777 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 All of a sudden I think six man intercessors squads are going to be a very valuable thing, along with six man scouts squads.Why 6-man out of interest? I run 2 each of both Intercessors and Scouts and they are great, I am just curious what it is about 6 in a squad? I think he means because the power level will double but the points cost does not increase too much. Leaving more power level deployed Exactly that. 18 points for an additional five power level during deployment seems like a pretty good sell to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kappel Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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