Spring FAQ is out and it's bad news

[dakkamasta]

 

I don't think the rule will stay the way it is when it becomes official. The smite rule changed considerably from the Beta version and that affected far less components of the game than this does. By all means send your feedback to GW to let them tweak it but the sky is by no means falling yet.

Well they removed the -1 per additional attempt for two armies, big deal. They left the idiocy of not allowing two different psykers to cast the same power in the same turn. What happens if only one or two powers you have available are worth the risk? Why is it more balanced to allow multiple uses of a mortal wound dealing power than multiple uses of a power that only increases the attacks by one or adds a 5++?

 

The issue is not smite spam but mortal wounds spam. Mortal wounds are simply too good for the cost of some units that are able to spam them. That is where they should have made a change. Or remove them altogether.

 

 

More than that, they changed it from a -1 to cast to increasing the warp charge value. This is a significant difference as it means 11+ will always do D6 wounds and it also means your smite doesn't become easier to deny due to not being -1 (E.g. after 2 smites you require a 7. You roll a 9. Your opponent must still deny on a 10 rather than a 9 which is how it was in Beta).

 

My point is not about Smite specifically. My point is that some people were playing the Beta Smite rules for quite a while and when they became official they changed it significantly whilst still addressing the issue of Smite spam by armies with cheap psykers. I personally think the current Smite rule is perfect and I often bring 3 Neurothropes in my Tyranids lists.

 

The Reserve rules are not official yet. No one can force you to play it outside of a tournament. Wait it out and give constructive feedback to GW.

[Morticon]

A little bit underwhelmed with the changes, but will defs be giving feedback. 

I think it's nerfed things that needed to be nerfed, but we got taken down a peg or eight in the process, and really didnt need to be.  

A few of the tricks are gone too.  (Meph wings pod anyone?)

 

I agree with Brother_Bs assessment, i think its a massive buff for guard and gunline heavy armies.  Also, the "soup" detachment change is nigh useless - at least in my meta.  Nobody I know plays mixed detachments because all the buffs you get now are from single detachments. They needed to ding multi-detachments of different factions, not multi-faction detachments (if that makes sense).  This was only an issue for index days -its not anymore. 

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

[Jolemai]

It means the Reiver shenanigans are legal, no?

[BluejayJunior]

A little bit underwhelmed with the changes, but will defs be giving feedback. 

 

I think it's nerfed things that needed to be nerfed, but we got taken down a peg or eight in the process, and really didnt need to be.  

 

A few of the tricks are gone too.  (Meph wings pod anyone?)

 

I agree with Brother_Bs assessment, i think its a massive buff for guard and gunline heavy armies.  Also, the "soup" detachment change is nigh useless - at least in my meta.  Nobody I know plays mixed detachments because all the buffs you get now are from single detachments. They needed to ding multi-detachments of different factions, not multi-faction detachments (if that makes sense).  This was only an issue for index days -its not anymore. 

 

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

I think it's actually even better. You measure diagonally base-to-base to determine if it's within 12" to declare the charge or over 9" for deepstrike. But then ignore the vertical distance and only measure the horizontal distance to determine the charge distance/movement. So Reviers and anything with fly can pull the deepstrike and charge shenanigans. 

[toaae]

YOU might like it, but this is a game where 2 people need to enjoy the game.

In all my games, I've never had an issue where my opponents didn't feel like they had a chance. One good turn of charging wasn't ruining my opponents fun. Fall back isn't a fun rule for assault armies, where the change for that? Isn't it about two players, and that rule is as uninteractive as they come.

 

Deep strike wasn't killing the game. If a few units were, they should use the flexibility datasheets gave them and fix those units, not make huge, fundamental changes to a rule that affects so many different armies.

[dakkamasta]

Here's a thought. What would you guys think if the rule was:

 

"Units arriving from reinforcements on the first game turn cannot arrive in the enemy's deployment zone" - The rest of the rule being the same as it is written.

 

This could balance it somewhat as T1 charges are still possible, but the player receiving the charge can at least plan for it and due to the 9" rule it forces the units to land somewhere around the mid-field. It also allows shooty units from reinforcements to still have a chance to shoot but the opponent can use clever deployment to keep their juicier targets towards the back and out of range. To top it off, scouting units can still be used to severely gimp an alpha strike.

 

The reason I think this could work is because it evens the playing field of horde vs elite armies in regards to alpha strikes. Currently when I play Tyranids or Guard, I have no problem flooding my entire deployment zone with units to cut off any means of deep striking in. Top that off with scout sentinels or sporocysts and now the midfield is a no-go zone as well. It's the elite armies that are suffering the most from these alpha strikes because they simply don't have enough table presence to stop it. This change would at least give them a chance to position their units in a way that the most vulnerable ones are safe from a T1 alpha strike.

 

What do you guys think?

[The4thHorseman]

 

 

Here's a thought. What would you guys think if the rule was:

 

"Units arriving from reinforcements on the first game turn cannot arrive in the enemy's deployment zone" - The rest of the rule being the same as it is written.

 

This could balance it somewhat as T1 charges are still possible, but the player receiving the charge can at least plan for it and due to the 9" rule it forces the units to land somewhere around the mid-field. It also allows shooty units from reinforcements to still have a chance to shoot but the opponent can use clever deployment to keep their juicier targets towards the back and out of range. To top it off, scouting units can still be used to severely gimp an alpha strike.

 

The reason I think this could work is because it evens the playing field of horde vs elite armies in regards to alpha strikes. Currently when I play Tyranids or Guard, I have no problem flooding my entire deployment zone with units to cut off any means of deep striking in. Top that off with scout sentinels or sporocysts and now the midfield is a no-go zone as well. It's the elite armies that are suffering the most from these alpha strikes because they simply don't have enough table presence to stop it. This change would at least give them a chance to position their units in a way that the most vulnerable ones are safe from a T1 alpha strike.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I mean its MUCH better than the current Beta Rule. But I still think making it Only a MAXIUMUM of HALF of units in Reserve can DS in Turn 1, with Reserves as normal from T2 on, still Keeping the Half Points on Table and Half Points in Reserve Ruling, but dropping the Power Level portion.

[BluejayJunior]

Here's a thought. What would you guys think if the rule was:

 

"Units arriving from reinforcements on the first game turn cannot arrive in the enemy's deployment zone" - The rest of the rule being the same as it is written.

 

This could balance it somewhat as T1 charges are still possible, but the player receiving the charge can at least plan for it and due to the 9" rule it forces the units to land somewhere around the mid-field. It also allows shooty units from reinforcements to still have a chance to shoot but the opponent can use clever deployment to keep their juicier targets towards the back and out of range. To top it off, scouting units can still be used to severely gimp an alpha strike.

 

The reason I think this could work is because it evens the playing field of horde vs elite armies in regards to alpha strikes. Currently when I play Tyranids or Guard, I have no problem flooding my entire deployment zone with units to cut off any means of deep striking in. Top that off with scout sentinels or sporocysts and now the midfield is a no-go zone as well. It's the elite armies that are suffering the most from these alpha strikes because they simply don't have enough table presence to stop it. This change would at least give them a chance to position their units in a way that the most vulnerable ones are safe from a T1 alpha strike.

 

What do you guys think?

That was my same thought for an alternate rule. 

[dakkamasta]

Yea I forgot to mention that. The Power Level rule is really clunky as it can be exploited by taking a specific number of models per unit. If they wanted to balance it in that way, it should have been just:

 

"Up to 50% of the total points value of your army can be placed in reinforcements"

 

This way people can't abuse the system by adding 5 power level with 1 extra intercessor for example. Also as a matched play rule I don't see why they didn't use points to balance the 50% rule as that's what matched play uses. It means players have to consult 2 different point systems when writing 1 list which is just tedious.

[Quixus]

Here's a thought. What would you guys think if the rule was:

 

"Units arriving from reinforcements on the first game turn cannot arrive in the enemy's deployment zone" - The rest of the rule being the same as it is written.

It is better than the current rule, but I still think the onus should be on the opponent to secure his deployment zone. It is not that hard.

[Ishagu]

 

Why are BA worse in other departments? What's stopping them from Running Hellblasters, Sicaran Venators, etc?

Because we do not get things like ignores cover (IF) or -1 to hit outside 12" (RG).

No, but those don't get a unit arriving from reserve on turn two and charging into the enemy as effectively as BA.

[Panzer]

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

It actually says you ignore the vertical distance, not the horizontal distance. ;)

However then they clarify that you don't ignore it completely but rather measure diagonally. So yeah nothing really changed for FLY charges since diagonally to a unit 10" below and 1" away is basically the same as the 10" vertical distance anyway. Setting your unit up >9" away still requires a 9" charge, even if you placed them on top of a very high ruin. :P

 

It means the Reiver shenanigans are legal, no?

It's written differently than the FLY stuff so it was never illegal to begin with and doesn't get touched by anything written in any of the FAQs. ;)

[BluejayJunior]

 

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

It actually says you ignore the vertical distance, not the horizontal distance.

However then they clarify that you don't ignore it completely but rather measure diagonally. So yeah nothing really changed for FLY charges since diagonally to a unit 10" below and 1" away is basically the same as the 10" vertical distance anyway. Setting your unit up >9" away still requires a 9" charge, even if you placed them on top of a very high ruin. 

I disagree. It says that you measure diagonally from base-to-base to be within 12" to declare the charge, but the charge move ignores vertical distance. They are separate statements and measurements. Otherwise, the FLY isn't ignoring the vertical distance. That is the way that I read it. 

[Quixus]

 

 

Why are BA worse in other departments? What's stopping them from Running Hellblasters, Sicaran Venators, etc?

Because we do not get things like ignores cover (IF) or -1 to hit outside 12" (RG).

No, but those don't get a unit arriving from reserve on turn two and charging into the enemy as effectively as BA.

 

The issue is that gunlines can pretty much shoot whatever they want. If the opponentplaces his gunline appropriately it is a lot harder to get into melee with the units you want to eliminate first.

[Deadnaughty]

 

 

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

It actually says you ignore the vertical distance, not the horizontal distance.

However then they clarify that you don't ignore it completely but rather measure diagonally. So yeah nothing really changed for FLY charges since diagonally to a unit 10" below and 1" away is basically the same as the 10" vertical distance anyway. Setting your unit up >9" away still requires a 9" charge, even if you placed them on top of a very high ruin. 

I disagree. It says that you measure diagonally from base-to-base to be within 12" to declare the charge, but the charge move ignores vertical distance. They are separate statements and measurements. Otherwise, the FLY isn't ignoring the vertical distance. That is the way that I read it. 

Indeed. the rule seems quite clear. 

[Panzer]

 

 

Also, strange side-note, i think some may be misinterpretting the jump movement rule - nothing has really changed - they say you dont measure horizontal distance, but go on to say you move along the diagonal - in short, you're not moving along the base, then up the perpendicular- you're moving along the hypotenuse. There's no change to this in gameplay. Its a simple clarification. 

It actually says you ignore the vertical distance, not the horizontal distance.

However then they clarify that you don't ignore it completely but rather measure diagonally. So yeah nothing really changed for FLY charges since diagonally to a unit 10" below and 1" away is basically the same as the 10" vertical distance anyway. Setting your unit up >9" away still requires a 9" charge, even if you placed them on top of a very high ruin. 

I disagree. It says that you measure diagonally from base-to-base to be within 12" to declare the charge, but the charge move ignores vertical distance. They are separate statements and measurements. Otherwise, the FLY isn't ignoring the vertical distance. That is the way that I read it. 

 

 

Fair enough! I didn't think about seperating measure distance and charge distance in my thought process. So only my first sentence had any meaning ... oh well. :D

[Charlo]

Seen some stuff alluding to no warptime or wings of sang/ similar ability when you deepstrike a unit?

 

Anyone got the reference for this?

[Silverson]

does anyone have an address where we give feedback to these beta testing rules?
 

[BluejayJunior]

Seen some stuff alluding to no warptime or wings of sang/ similar ability when you deepstrike a unit?

 

Anyone got the reference for this?

It's in the main rulebook FAQ. 

"Q: Can such a unit move or Advance for any other reason e.g. because of an ability such as The Swarmlord’s Hive Commander ability, or because of a psychic power such as Warptime from the Dark Hereticus discipline, or because of a Stratagem like Metabolic Overdrive from Codex: Tyranids, etc.? A: No."

[Semirhagge]

Are we mixing up “reinforcements” with “tactical reserves”. Because there is a huge difference. And it was brought to my attention that the FAQ about not using Warptime/Wings after a DS is in the Reinforcements section of the BRB FAQ, not Tactical Reserves.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

TL;DR

 

Lots of jumbled emotions.

 

First thoughts:

 

Deepstrike has gone back to previous editions. A solid answer For the Deepstrike debacle is first player turn you can't Deepstrike. Therefore if you go second you should be able to counter Shooty lists if you are an assault based army.

 

Biker Scouts are going to be meta if all beta rules stay in place.

 

Always played Fly as discounting vertical movement with charges so just reaffirmed that.

 

More base CPs is only beneficial. Dual wielding plasma pistols is back so yay.

 

Not a fan of terrain ruling, but will adjust accordingly.

 

Most other things aren't specifixally BA related so I'll leave that out.

[Damon Nightman]

TL;DR

 

Lots of jumbled emotions.

 

First thoughts:

 

Deepstrike has gone back to previous editions. A solid answer For the Deepstrike debacle is first player turn you can't Deepstrike. Therefore if you go second you should be able to counter Shooty lists if you are an assault based army.

 

Biker Scouts are going to be meta if all beta rules stay in place.

 

Always played Fly as discounting vertical movement with charges so just reaffirmed that.

 

More base CPs is only beneficial. Dual wielding plasma pistols is back so yay.

 

Not a fan of terrain ruling, but will adjust accordingly.

 

Most other things aren't specifixally BA related so I'll leave that out.

What happened with dual weilding plasma?

[Panzer]

Are we mixing up “reinforcements” with “tactical reserves”. Because there is a huge difference. And it was brought to my attention that the FAQ about not using Warptime/Wings after a DS is in the Reinforcements section of the BRB FAQ, not Tactical Reserves.

 

All Tactical Reserves are Reinforcements as well tho. Tactical Reserves is just the part that talks about units that get set up somewhere else than on the board during deployment so they can arrive as reinforcements.

 

Page 215 from the Rulebook:

 

TACTICAL RESERVES

Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many

units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit,

in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as

reinforcements.

 

[Quixus]

Deepstrike has gone back to previous editions. A solid answer For the Deepstrike debacle is first player turn you can't Deepstrike. Therefore if you go second you should be able to counter Shooty lists if you are an assault based army.

Unfortunately not:

Furthermore, in matched play games, any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a player’s first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player’s deployment zone (even if its ability would normally let it be set up anywhere).

A player still gets a first turn even if he goes second. What you meant would have to be "the first player's first turn".

[BluejayJunior]

 

Are we mixing up “reinforcements” with “tactical reserves”. Because there is a huge difference. And it was brought to my attention that the FAQ about not using Warptime/Wings after a DS is in the Reinforcements section of the BRB FAQ, not Tactical Reserves.

 

All Tactical Reserves are Reinforcements as well tho. Tactical Reserves is just the part that talks about units that get set up somewhere else than on the board during deployment so they can arrive as reinforcements.

 

Page 215 from the Rulebook:

 

TACTICAL RESERVES

Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many

units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit,

in Reserve, etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as

reinforcements.

 

 

Yeah, Tactical Reserves are set up as reinforcements.