Doom Herald Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 So, Warp Time no longer affects deep strike units. Considering their point cost, when you consider the lightning claws, is there any useful application of Warp Talons now, other than dropping them on a locus of rage? I love the unit but don't want to have to field a Khorne Daemon dettachment to make them usable without being a CP drain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaia Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I'm in the exact same boat. I'll follow this thread to see if anyone can come up with any worthwhile uses for them, because I'm drawing a blank. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
techsoldaten Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Arriving turn two is so much of a problem they need to be removed from lists? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 It has nothing to do with not hitting first turn. It's got to do with the fact that their "no overwatch" ability only turns on when they charge from deep strike. . . and without Warp Time, there's no way to improve their chance of charging. They can't take Icons, so you can't even use an Icon of Wrath on them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 The only other thing I can come up with is Nurgle Warp Talons in a Gnarlmaw field, but those got a point increase of 70% per Gnarlmaw... this FAQ has me wondering what is going on in their heads... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akrim Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Yeah without Warp Time I think they are probably busted pretty bad. Needing a 9" charge on arrival I believe (and Im no Mathhammer guru) - they're looking at a 27.76% chance? Not sure what a CP Reroll would change that to but still not great. They typically dont survive the shooting phase if they dont reach assault on arrival. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057591 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Yeah.... Like, they'd only really have a place in my Khorne Daemonkin forces. Â Which sucks, 'cause I wanted to have some in my Emperor's Children forces. Oh well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaia Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Well. It was definitely an indirect nerf to Warp Talons. I don't think that they were a problem unit for anybody. And Warp Time had been an auto-take since the Index IMO, so I'm okay to see the power taken down a peg so that I'll try more of our other (very good) powers. However Warp Talons were leaning pretty hard on Warp Time as a crutch. I think that Warp Talons rules themselves are the root problem for them. Â They have the fly keyword, which is great for something that can fall back and shoot, but Warp Talons are melee only, they don't even have grenades. So they don't get the full benefit of the rule they are paying for. Â The Iron Father did an excellent job explaining why Warpflame Strike (their special rule) isn't very good without help making the charge. Â I think the best fix for Warp Talons would be to bake that help into their datasheet. Â 1) Probably the easiest. You can allow them to purchase Icons. Â 2) Give them a unit specific stratagem to charge with 3d6 or something. Â 3) Ammend Warpflame Strike to give them +2" to charge in the turn they arrive. Â 4) Give them a special rule to play up their role as hunters and assassins. Let them set up on the table no more than 3" away from an enemy unit. Maybe have this tied to a unit chosen before the start of the game. Â Â As for now I guess I might start them on the table as an escort for a flying Nurgle Daemon Prince so I can keep them shrouded with Miasma of Pestilence and still benefit from the summoned Poxbringer I was using to buff them pre-FAQ. I'll try it out and see if it's worth it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Khorne-marked near a Herald of Khorne is the best we’ve got for making the charge out of DS now, I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057649 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gederas Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Khorne-marked near a Herald of Khorne is the best we’ve got for making the charge out of DS now, I think. It's the only thing we've got now.  Which means anyone not running World Eaters or a non-cult Legion is kind of boned :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterstrider Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 The Warp Talons Warpflame Strike special rule (for no overwatch in a turn in which they deep strike) should just be active anytime they charge, effectively turning them into Banshees. That'll give them a use on the table. Deploy them in cover, move 12", Warptime another 12" and then charge the enemy frontline to try and hold up some shooting until your forces can get into position. Otherwise they will become a shell accessory. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5057716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketzer Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Sorry, but where does it say "no warptime on a unit that appeared via deepstrike"? The FAQ is a bit hard to work through and it looks like i missed it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5058082 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Abaia Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Sorry, but where does it say "no warptime on a unit that appeared via deepstrike"? The FAQ is a bit hard to work through and it looks like i missed it. It was added to the Index: Chaos FAQ as well as the one for the Core Rulebook. You may have to clear your browser cache as it looks like they were updated after most of the Codexes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5058088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stross Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 FAQ Index: Chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5058090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketzer Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Found it. Thank you. @ Topic - okay, that sucks. Like Magpie Knight said the poor Warptalons could need some rule adjustment. I like the idea of masterstrider - Warpflame Strike on every charge. I always found them lacking some punch and this would fit them nicely. But as they are: not worth their points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5058102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Ok guys, we already have a generic post about the FAQ, lets take the discussions there while I work out how to merge the topics from my phone... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346308-are-warp-talons-worth-it-anymore/#findComment-5058233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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