Preparing for the Worst: Dealing with the new FAQ

[Sea-People]

First off some disclaimers: Overall I like the direction the FAQ is bringing the game. I appreciate that GW has taken time to address issues that appear to be problems.

 

I also think that their deepstrike ruling is poorly thought out and has more holes in in that swiss cheese shot by a machine gun. That's a discussion for another thread though.

 

What I want to talk about here is how we can modify our lists to deal with these changes. I think that our main focus should be on clearing out all of their chaff turn one so that our assault elements can deep strike in and do the business.

 

Here is an example list I am working towards in the next month or so. I think it illustrates what we need to accomplish in this new meta.

 

Battalion + Vanguard Detatchment (Total of 9 CP)

 

HQ

Captain Smash. Slamguinius, The Slamguinor, Smash:cusser, Heatseeking Missile, many are his names. (Jump Pack, Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer) Relic: Angel's Wings, Warlord Trait: Artisan of War

 

Mephiston

 

Chaplain (Jump Pack)

 

TROOPS

4x Tactical Squad (meltagun)

 

DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

4x Razorback (Twin Assault Cannon)

 

ELITES

2x Death Company (10 man, 2x powerfist)

Terminator Assault Squad (all Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield)

 

TOTAL: 1831. Plenty of points to play around with at either 1850 or 2000 points.

 

 

TACTICS

 

The Chaplain, terminators, and death Co. all start in deepstrike. Everything else is on the board. This gives us 54 Power on the board and 53 in reserve (come at me GW). Deploy on the line. This list wants to go first, but can probably survive going second fairly well.

 

TURN 1

Move EVERYTHING up to the center of the board. I personally would not disembark anybody yet. Focus all the assault cannons on clearing the enemy chaff away. They can't screen if they are dead! Nothing important is exposed to the enemy yet. If they kill a razor or two, hopefully they have already done their job.

 

TURN 2

Depending on circumstances, drop in everything or at least 1 unit of death Co. and the terminators. Disembark everybody and continue moving up the board. perhaps keep the razorbacks stationary, but I think this list really wants to be in the enemy's face to force target saturation. With enough chaff likely cleared from turn 1 we will likely be able to deep strike with impunity wherever we wish and get at least one charge off. Mephiston and Capt. Smash will likely be in threat range of something important as well. I included terminators because even if they don't get a charge off after landing, they are sturdy, and if the enemy shoots at them, they aren't shooting at other important targets. Target saturation and all that.

 

From this point onwards, grab objectives, clear stragglers, etc. It's going to depend on the situation.

 

Obviously the list and tactics can be improved or tweaked in many ways, but I think this is a good example of how we can deal with the myriad changes from the FAQ. The way forward looks like focusing our first turn on clearing out chaff, so that on turn two we can deliver the hammer blow from above.

 

It's not perfect, but its a start. Let's try and overcome this the way Sanguinius intended!

[brother_b]

Good topic, one I was going to start as well. 

 

In my games I've generally fielded a shooty army that has elements that can move upfield, supported by a scout screen and often times some armor.

 

I've then tended to have 1-2 units of jump troops, and 1-2 jump characters. I usually brought my forces in turn 2 anyway, unless I had to deal with some hidden shooty units, or I had a chance to score some points.

 

With the new dex that's no longer an option. I'm thinking I'll have to basically either use DC with the strat to get up field fast, or possibly deploy my stormraven more aggressively, even though that still limits me to a turn-2 delivery of assets.

[DemonGSides]

I'll probably go back to running 3 stormravens with a group of dudes in each.  Fly em up field and hide em if possible.  Then Drop dudes and commence the slaughter.

[Xenith]

Overall, this pushes things back towards previous editions where deepstrikers came on from T2. It was never an issue then, and if the rule had been this way from the start, we wouldn't have the uproar we do now.

 

In all, I agree with the changes, especially with the charge from deepstrike option, even though it hurts my armies and benefits gunlines. I think they're better for the game.

 

Deepstrike and shoot anywhere on the table returns us to the Eldar null deploy lists of 4th ed that started 100% off board, and used 2 Autarchs to bring in all units T2 on a 2+. The highly mobile firepower coupled with the opponent losing a turn of shooting was massively powerful and pretty much broke the game.

 

Remember that while we lose something, most, if not all other armies lose something too - check out their relevant complaint threads.. Now we need to protect the units on the board, while prepping the deep strike. 

[Panzer]

Yeah but previously you didn't have to place your units more than 9" away from any enemy unit. Ususally you'd just take the risk or aim for ~7" space from other units so you had some security. Or just take Drop Pods and don't care where exactly it lands lol.

I still remember that there was barely any unit actually deep striking last edition except for Marines with Drop Pods because it was just not worth the gamble of when your unit comes and whether it'll land where you want it. ^^

[dread05]

Maybe its the time for assault terminators in a land raider to shine? :P

[Panzer]

Dunno, Landraider are still super expensive for what they do. I think I'd rather take more Terminators instead and walk them up the board. :D

[Charlo]

It's strange, because I can't help but feel this "BIG" FAQ was actually kinda small and that really is just a bit of a test bed for when we get the real picture - Chapter Approved.

 

I think we'll see things like Land Raiders get cheaper, new Drop Pod rules and other such things around then.

[Panzer]

Yeah, ignoring the beta rule about deep strikes I can't really think of anything that has much of an impact. The FLY charge clarification is nice but that's it.

[Xenith]

Yeah but previously you didn't have to place your units more than 9" away from any enemy unit. Ususally you'd just take the risk or aim for ~7" space from other units so you had some security. Or just take Drop Pods and don't care where exactly it lands lol.

I still remember that there was barely any unit actually deep striking last edition except for Marines with Drop Pods because it was just not worth the gamble of when your unit comes and whether it'll land where you want it. ^^

 

Agree. In general, deepstrike was really not worth it. You land and get shot off the board. It had some use in 5th with Heroic Intervention at the end of 7th with the Golden Shower formation, but that's about it. 

 

The best tactic was to deepstrike into/behind cover to avoid being shot, and we're in the same place as we are now. 

[Ushtarador]

Yeah, ignoring the beta rule about deep strikes I can't really think of anything that has much of an impact. The FLY charge clarification is nice but that's it.

 

There were some huge changes for competitive list (0-3 limitation of datasheets, no more warptime/quicken on deepstriking units, poxwalker farm removed), but it's true that it didn't change much for non-cutthroat games - which is good I think

[Panzer]

Hah, forgot about the warptime thing already.

The 0-3 limitation is only for tournaments tho, so I don't really care about that one. It hits only few top lists anyway. :P

[TheFinisher4Ever]

IMO, the biggest problem for assault armies is the change to charging into ruins. I'm really struggling to see how an assault army can fit in todays meta when your opponent can stop you from charging solely by putting all of their infantry on the upper floor of ruins.

[Panzer]

That's honestly not even a change, just a clarification. However if your opponent puts ALL their infantry in ruins and never moves it, he should probably lose on objectives anyway.

[Xenith]

IMO, the biggest problem for assault armies is the change to charging into ruins. I'm really struggling to see how an assault army can fit in todays meta when your opponent can stop you from charging solely by putting all of their infantry on the upper floor of ruins.

 

Have you tried shooting them a little first to clear some space?

 

Even if they remove models from the back, you can still fly over them and engage. 

[Spagunk]

You can't shoot them when half your army is already dead and the other half are out to lunch. ;)

[Panzer]

You can't shoot them when half your army is already dead and the other half are out to lunch.

 

In that case you already lost anyway so why bother with the guys in the ruins. ;)

[STTAB]

Pre FAQ I was dabbling with listbuilding a BA detachment.

 

If you gotta survive turn 1 shooting without deepstriking then starting with your JP company ancient with the standard of sacrafice for a 6" 5+++, unit of 10 JP VV with 5 storm shields screening in front getting 3++/5+++ and charachters with jump packs behind.

 

A formation like this could advance up 12+D6" or 12"+3D6 charge turn 1 and be very resilient and hold space for a turn 2 death company drop, charging 3D6 while they move another 12" and charge.

[Spagunk]

 

You can't shoot them when half your army is already dead and the other half are out to lunch.

 

In that case you already lost anyway so why bother with the guys in the ruins.

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/132/thatsthejoke.jpg

[Panzer]

 

 

You can't shoot them when half your army is already dead and the other half are out to lunch.

 

In that case you already lost anyway so why bother with the guys in the ruins.

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/012/132/thatsthejoke.jpg

 

 

[Spagunk]

In all seriousness, the issue exists and just blowing it off is kind of unfair to people. It's a problem for someone and that is enough NOT to dismiss their concerns.

[durdle-durdle]

So one of the guys at my legs is saying he believes if any piece of your base can be placed on the level of the ruin, you can put it there. Meaning the opponent would have to cover the entirety of the level and be hanging off a bit so you can’t clip the edge of the level. But if you can touch even .000001” of the level, your model is there.

 

Is that right?

[BluejayJunior]

That's not how I read the rule. I would say that you have to be able to place your model in a way that it can physically stay there without any assistance.

[durdle-durdle]

So then you couldn’t make a charge into mildly rocky terrain?

 

Like clearly that’s okay, but the raw does having the very edge of your base on the very edge of a ruin level count as being a valid placement or not? Because if not, it creates some wonky interactions with what is and isn’t a valid placement. I think rai, it’s probably not meant, but raw, it’s the only way I can see to make close combat units not worthless in any sort of cityscape.

[Sea-People]

Yeah that ruling is in a really weird spot right now. On one hand you shouldn't be unassailable by standing on a rock. On the other, should a riptide that can fit 1mm of its base on a level be considered in combat? I'm not sure what the right answer is to be honest.

 

"Sure I can't assault since I can't put a model on the upper level, but if any of your models fall over they die."