FAQ impact: the case for Intercessors?

[Angel of Solitude]

Ok, so please let me preface this by saying that I am a player of limited experience, so I am fully expecting to be helpfully corrected by the more experienced players out there!

 

My limited experience has so far taught me the following principles for list design:

1. Aim for a battalion to get the +3 CP instead of +1 CP (Outrider/Vanguard)
2. Fill your troop choices with scouts, as they are the cheapest and offer the Concealed Positions ability which allows you to restrict alpha strike damage.

So, the impact of the FAQ has done two things:

1. Made it more important than ever to build a battalion detachment (now +5)
2. Reduced the need to focus as much on alpha strike denial at deployment

 

This second point for me raises the question of whether a different troop choice - specifically Intercessors - could be a more viable option now. That extra distance you get from infiltrating scouts is partially offset by the increased 6" range on the standard weaponry, which is also now AP-1. Plus you get a bit more durability too, as you have 2W per model instead of 1 and a 3+ instead of 4+.

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

[Helycon]

Intercessors were never a bad choice. They're quite cost effective for what they bring. Scouts are still great. You can make them even better, by now spreading out T1, to deny even more area, whilst your troops advance up after the scouts. I'm sure scouts will be the staple in most Adeptus Astartes armies due to being cheap to fill a Batallion, and the forward positioning options.

[breng77]

Intercessors were always a fine choice.  You will still want a few scout squads though otherwise you will lose to Alpha Legion or Raven guard that get first turn.

[sneakybamsen]

You are right that the need might seem smaller for alpha strike denial, but from turn two, even though it's no longer alpha striking, they can land where they want to as long as they are more than 9" away from your models, so you're still prone to getting locked in, especially with a greenwing element (hellblasters, devastators and intercessors trying to screen). The thing is that scouts hinder your opponent from getting close t1, even if he can no longer deep strike as before. They might charge your scouts, and that will give them some inches, but they won't go unhindered directly for your firebase, which we quite frankly need to handle tough targets. Inceptors with plasma do well at that, but they too suffer from the change to alpha strikes, even though alpha striking is far from the only way to use deep strikers, but no doubt hellblasters are better. So scouts importance is not dimished by the FAQ, but you can try to push them a bit further out, as you will not have anyone landing in your deployment zone turn one.

[Angel of Solitude]

Thanks for all of the advice. I think I am going to experiment with running some Intercessor squads and see how I go.

[SnakeChisler]

If you run a Brigade 3 scouts & 3 Intercessors you can be so far in front points wise by turn 2 it makes it very hard for your opponent to win a progressive mission.

 

Add deep strike elements such as Rievers or inceptors to harry backfield objectives or bikes with thier speed move and you can tie your opponent in knots as he tries to get points on the board.

 

I've also dabbled with the ancient as the warlord with foe-smiter and the target character trait, it's great for getting at general characters such as cryptek apothecary, pain boy, big me etc...

 

We've introduced no recurring formations in our group so no double battalion, it was mostly to get people away from spamming, but decent brigade lists are achievable and fun.

 

You can get Azreal Sammael and Talon master in with a bit of squeezing, the thing that tends to get hit though is heavy support though spamming bolter fire through bikes and aggressors makes up for the slack.

[march10k]

So we're basically saying that tactical squads are dead?  I was thinking of 2x5 scouts out in front and 1x5 tacticals on the flank as the bubble wrap on my firebase.  Two reasons for tacticals over intercessors:  I already have them, and I can give them a plasma cannon so they can contribute something more than just intercepting melee attackers.

[RayJ]

I don't think tactical squads are dead, but you need to be seriously leveraging that special or heavy weapon option very well. They don't compete well with intercessors on any other metric, other than being able to ride a vehicle.

 

The intercessor's strength is its ability to survive and attack (in melee) as if it is twice the size of a similar tactical squad. Double durability without double the profile is quite valuable, as it plays in terrain to more effect.

[SnakeChisler]

So we're basically saying that tactical squads are dead?  I was thinking of 2x5 scouts out in front and 1x5 tacticals on the flank as the bubble wrap on my firebase.  Two reasons for tacticals over intercessors:  I already have them, and I can give them a plasma cannon so they can contribute something more than just intercepting melee attackers.

The range of intercessors bolt rifles makes a big difference that extra 6" seems not that important but it certainly doesn't feel like that on the battle field, the grenade launcher is a useful thing and I give my sgt's power swords. 3 attacks is pretty useful so at 95 points your 10 wounds tends to stick around for 2/3 turns even when being pressured. 5 models is also a lot easier to put into cover.

 

Rievers with grapnel launchers are a similar thing they get in the opponents backfield and set in terrain suck resources from the main battle.

 

The other thing is your not doing moral checks very often on 5.

 

Tactical squads I still use when I break out the razorbacks, plasma combi-plasma + assault cannons and off we go, and pop in a chapter champion for assault backup * 3. I've got some Las Plas which are fun to use as well. Pretty useful against more elite type armies and those with a lot of light vehicles.

 

Having a tac squad sat there with a single heavy weapon is sooo 7th ;)

[Phaeton]

Intercessors are definetly a good choice. They are sturdy and cheap. Tough line infantry. For my battalion troops choices I plan to use two 5-man Intercessors squad and one 5-man scout squad with shiper rifles.

[Deadman Wade]

I find all three troops choices equally viable. Scout snipers and Intercessors are cheap, tacs are more expensive. Intercessors are good camping unit who can benefit from rerolling 1s cause they usually don't need to move, and even 5 man squad can tank some anti-infantry shots.

Scouts can target characters, cause mortal wounds, deny deep strike and infiltration areas and need no HQ to support them.

Tacticals are good at taking objectives late game, cause you need more models to take them from other troops, and they also can ride inside a transport.

I usually take one tac squad in Rhino and 2 sniper scouts or 2 intercessors.

[Berzul]

I must say, I am a fan of Tactical Squads.

 

On the one hand, I do not like Primaris because I am a purist bastard that likes to spoil his own fun.

On the other, I can get a good area denial with marines most of the time, anyway.

 

Scouts are cheaper, spread out the same, and can go beyond your deployment zone. That makes them awesome.

 

But I rearely make my area denial outside my own deployment anyway, and for that, tacticals have better armor for not THAT much of a cost.

Also, I like to run at least one squad of combi plasma + plasma gun each time. The squad itself often gets overlooked as it is small and seeingly inconsequential. But you get to the 12 inch range, pop up weapons of the Dark Age and BOOM!! You can blast through almost anything!!

[march10k]

 

So we're basically saying that tactical squads are dead?  I was thinking of 2x5 scouts out in front and 1x5 tacticals on the flank as the bubble wrap on my firebase.  Two reasons for tacticals over intercessors:  I already have them, and I can give them a plasma cannon so they can contribute something more than just intercepting melee attackers.

The range of intercessors bolt rifles makes a big difference that extra 6" seems not that important but it certainly doesn't feel like that on the battle field, the grenade launcher is a useful thing and I give my sgt's power swords. 3 attacks is pretty useful so at 95 points your 10 wounds tends to stick around for 2/3 turns even when being pressured. 5 models is also a lot easier to put into cover.

 

Rievers with grapnel launchers are a similar thing they get in the opponents backfield and set in terrain suck resources from the main battle.

 

The other thing is your not doing moral checks very often on 5.

 

Tactical squads I still use when I break out the razorbacks, plasma combi-plasma + assault cannons and off we go, and pop in a chapter champion for assault backup * 3. I've got some Las Plas which are fun to use as well. Pretty useful against more elite type armies and those with a lot of light vehicles.

 

Having a tac squad sat there with a single heavy weapon is sooo 7th

 

 

LOL, I like the plas, combiplas, power weapon setup.  Nice and vicious coming out of a razor.  Scouts are definitely awesome for being able to deploy *during normal deployment sequence* in the neutral zone, but of course they have to be your first drops or else your opponent will put his guys there first, denying you the location  you wanted for the firebase.  Problem with the scouts is, they don't really do much after that, other than get cut down.  That's why I like the 5 man single heavy weapon option for bubble wrapping the flank of the firebase.  It can drop later in the deployment sequence, has better armor, and with the heavy weapon, can contribute some offense.  That, to me, is worth a few extra points.  Scouts in your deployment zone are pointless.

 

 

I find all three troops choices equally viable. Scout snipers and Intercessors are cheap, tacs are more expensive. Intercessors are good camping unit who can benefit from rerolling 1s cause they usually don't need to move, and even 5 man squad can tank some anti-infantry shots.

Scouts can target characters, cause mortal wounds, deny deep strike and infiltration areas and need no HQ to support them.

Tacticals are good at taking objectives late game, cause you need more models to take them from other troops, and they also can ride inside a transport.

I usually take one tac squad in Rhino and 2 sniper scouts or 2 intercessors.

 

Scout snipers...better take at least ten if you take any (you are taking ten, I think).  Even ten will struggle to bring down elites choice characters, and forget HQ characters.  I prefer naked scouts.  20 points cheaper, and since they're deployed in the neutral zone forward of my firebase, they're going to die on turn one anyway.  40 points for a 50/50 shot (depending on who gets first turn) at one round of shooting just doesn't work for me.  If you're using scouts as snipers being protected by other units, then it makes sense to pay the 4ppm.  But mine are primarily bubble wrap.  So no rifles, no heavy bolter, just pistol and knife.

[Burias-Drak'shal]

WHat are people equipping there squads of intercessors with?

[RayJ]

Mine are typically 5-man with power sword and grenade launcher. They hold objectives well, and can hold their own for equal points in a fight. If they can hold an objective from cover, they'll be a solid nuisance almost all game.