New Feedback Mail to GW

[Danarc]

Did someone see the twitch game between GK and DG? BR?

[Holier Than Thou]

I saw a bit of it, GKs were 9-6 down on VPs after turn 2 but were about to get charged by Mortarion, a GUO and a Daemon Prince. I didn’t see anything after that but can only assume they were going to get wrecked.

[Danarc]

I'm writing here because the topic is the same. Nothing for us in the BIG FAQ (as we knew) and we are waiting for CA. Talons of the Emperor postponed to the new Year. We have two possibilities.

1) some point drop. Minor changes for some units.

2) not huge but big changes to units, rules, stratagems and cost. Good synergy with Talons of the Emperor (and this is the reason of the delay).

 

What do you think?
Unfortunately, I think it will be the first one. :'(

[newdigitalGK]

I'm writing here because the topic is the same. Nothing for us in the BIG FAQ (as we knew) and we are waiting for CA. Talons of the Emperor postponed to the new Year. We have two possibilities.

1) some point drop. Minor changes for some units.

2) not huge but big changes to units, rules, stratagems and cost. Good synergy with Talons of the Emperor (and this is the reason of the delay).

 

What do you think?

Unfortunately, I think it will be the first one. :'(

I'm going to have to agree, I'm just used to disappointment. It seems the only thing GW does in a big way is the nerf bat (we are still feeling it from 5th edition). At best I expect some point drop and minor changes at best. Nothing game changing and GW patting themselves on the back for a job well done while we shelf our armies.... again...

[techsoldaten]

 

I'm writing here because the topic is the same. Nothing for us in the BIG FAQ (as we knew) and we are waiting for CA. Talons of the Emperor postponed to the new Year. We have two possibilities.

1) some point drop. Minor changes for some units.

2) not huge but big changes to units, rules, stratagems and cost. Good synergy with Talons of the Emperor (and this is the reason of the delay).

 

What do you think?

Unfortunately, I think it will be the first one. :'(

I'm going to have to agree, I'm just used to disappointment. It seems the only thing GW does in a big way is the nerf bat (we are still feeling it from 5th edition). At best I expect some point drop and minor changes at best. Nothing game changing and GW patting themselves on the back for a job well done while we shelf our armies.... again...

 

 

Reverse wishlisting, I guess we could call this despairlisting.

 

I'm the opposite, expecting big changes in Chapter Approved. Here's my logic why this will happen:

 

1) Looking at the Big FAQs, 40k has been moving consistently in the direction of limiting the advantages of going first. Removing T1 deep strikes and the new cover Stratagem are ways of making the game more satisfying for both sides.

 

2) These changes favor shooty armies. Some 8th edition armies depend on deep striking early in the game, especially GK.

 

3) The design team stated GK get a second look in CA after the other Codexes are released. Given they have demonstrated a willingness to make big changes, I can't imagine they aren't going to address a problem they've already admitted having.

 

4) The way they are going to address the problem will be consistent with that of the Big FAQ. In other words, they are going to look at the impact the FAQs and use that to influence the rules.

 

So far, most of the major changes to 40k have heavily favored gunlines, and GK are supposed to be an elite, close combat force. They need to get across the board, but they can't rely on deep strike in the early game. Additionally, several of the things that make them special are problematic, especially in the current game context.

 

What I expect is:

 

a) Psychic powers get revamped, Baby Smite goes away. This could include taking powers from the generic Space Marine Codex. That would put them on-par with Thousand Sons.

 

b) Some mechanic is added around Nemesis Force Weapons making it worthwhile to take something besides falchions. Getting back Parry would make certain units a lot more serviceable.

 

c) Heavy Weapons get a boost.

 

d) They get something to offset the Daemon comeback Stratagem. Anything.

 

e) They remain an elite close combat army and units still cost about the same, they just get a little tougher. I don't think GW wants there to be a GK renaissance because they want to sell more Primaris models. But I also don't think they want such an ugly problem on their hands anymore.

[Corvus Fortis]

First of all, glad to see forum back online.

 

BIG FAQ struck us again with beta-rules cutting some exploits like taking 6 interceptors on table. Now we need to use points. New stratagem not that helpful for us because low CP count and 32 loyal are still our best friends. From the other hand, it is more benifical for us to give opponent first turn, because we cannot alphastike and won't shoot whole armies in cover.

 

I see several scenarios in CA.

 

1) Exaggeratedly bad. Gamedesigners actually really lost a lot to GK in 5th edition as Eldar and all the changes will be like -1 point to purifiers and +20 points to GMNDK. I still want to belive all our nerfs are coincedence;

 

2) Based on what we have. We could already see some rumors and changes in KT. So, price reduction for DS units already in rumors. In KT strikes are 1 point cheaper and psycannon is cheaper than psilencer, while falchions are 1 point. Also, we do d3 damage on high roll with Psybolt and always d3 to demons. Probably, we will see something like that. Maybe, psybolt ammunition and psychic onslaught will go to 1 CP;

 

3) Realistc wishlisting. If gw will pay some real attention to GK, we can get more psychic powers, like access to librarius for Librarians and Voldus. Or some psychic powers from previous editions. New GK-specific stratagems (most of wich won't be useful as any. I am more and more sure that we play GK not the way GW see them). Special rule changes to make work units like purgators or purifiers.  Relic and WT updates;

 

4) Pure wishlisting. Exception from beta-rules. Rites of teleportation back. Psyhic Pilot back. Cheap terminators. A lot of reworked rules. +1 attack to all units. Characters go from baby-smite to normal, like TS now. And lots of other stuff that I told in other feedback threads, I don't remember myself.

 

Personaly, I feel GK will be merged with SM codex, like BT, in an edition or two. I'd like to see united inquisitorial codex, but almost sure that won't be happening.

[newdigitalGK]

 

 

Reverse wishlisting, I guess we could call this despairlisting.

 

I'm the opposite, expecting big changes in Chapter Approved. Here's my logic why this will happen:

 

1) Looking at the Big FAQs, 40k has been moving consistently in the direction of limiting the advantages of going first. Removing T1 deep strikes and the new cover Stratagem are ways of making the game more satisfying for both sides.

 

2) These changes favor shooty armies. Some 8th edition armies depend on deep striking early in the game, especially GK.

 

3) The design team stated GK get a second look in CA after the other Codexes are released. Given they have demonstrated a willingness to make big changes, I can't imagine they aren't going to address a problem they've already admitted having.

 

4) The way they are going to address the problem will be consistent with that of the Big FAQ. In other words, they are going to look at the impact the FAQs and use that to influence the rules.

 

So far, most of the major changes to 40k have heavily favored gunlines, and GK are supposed to be an elite, close combat force. They need to get across the board, but they can't rely on deep strike in the early game. Additionally, several of the things that make them special are problematic, especially in the current game context.

 

What I expect is:

 

a) Psychic powers get revamped, Baby Smite goes away. This could include taking powers from the generic Space Marine Codex. That would put them on-par with Thousand Sons.

 

Some mechanic is added around Nemesis Force Weapons making it worthwhile to take something besides falchions. Getting back Parry would make certain units a lot more serviceable.

 

c) Heavy Weapons get a boost.

 

d) They get something to offset the Daemon comeback Stratagem. Anything.

 

e) They remain an elite close combat army and units still cost about the same, they just get a little tougher. I don't think GW wants there to be a GK renaissance because they want to sell more Primaris models. But I also don't think they want such an ugly problem on their hands anymore.

 

 

So what I honestly expect?

- Smite remains the same 

- Maybe psybolt turns into a psychic power instead of a strat where the previous start would be changed to allow you to cast twice.

- Heavy Weapons get reworked, maybe making them assault instead of heavy would be the most likely scenario IMO 

- Point reductions to some units. It's heavily dependent if the generic SM model gets a point reduction. If we get one they get one and vice versa the only excepts would be purifiers they could get a point reduction without cascading into point reductions across the imperium model line.

- More SM models allowed to be GK's IE primarus. This is a bit more outside the box and people will say it's not in the lore etc etc but it wouldn't be the first time GW does something like this

What I don't think will happen

- Access to generic SM powers. seriously if this happens I'll change my name and live on the street. This is straight up wishlisting IMO

- Changes to Toughness or most stat lines, the only exception to this would be purifiers

- Full revamp of psychic powers. GW precedent is adjusting current psychic powers or adding powers at best. Full revamp is again wishlisting IMO

 

Even my expectations are teetering on the edge of wishlisting. I've have high expectations with each GK codex release and update since 5th and I've gotten no favors just a random bone thrown and called done. It's great GW said they are taking another look at GK's but I would advise asking for the stars and settle on that grey cloud hanging above our heads and hope it has a silver lining. 

[techsoldaten]

So what I honestly expect?

- Smite remains the same 

- Maybe psybolt turns into a psychic power instead of a strat where the previous start would be changed to allow you to cast twice.

- Heavy Weapons get reworked, maybe making them assault instead of heavy would be the most likely scenario IMO 

- Point reductions to some units. It's heavily dependent if the generic SM model gets a point reduction. If we get one they get one and vice versa the only excepts would be purifiers they could get a point reduction without cascading into point reductions across the imperium model line.

- More SM models allowed to be GK's IE primarus. This is a bit more outside the box and people will say it's not in the lore etc etc but it wouldn't be the first time GW does something like this

What I don't think will happen

- Access to generic SM powers. seriously if this happens I'll change my name and live on the street. This is straight up wishlisting IMO

- Changes to Toughness or most stat lines, the only exception to this would be purifiers

- Full revamp of psychic powers. GW precedent is adjusting current psychic powers or adding powers at best. Full revamp is again wishlisting IMO

 

Even my expectations are teetering on the edge of wishlisting. I've have high expectations with each GK codex release and update since 5th and I've gotten no favors just a random bone thrown and called done. It's great GW said they are taking another look at GK's but I would advise asking for the stars and settle on that grey cloud hanging above our heads and hope it has a silver lining. 

 

 

 We will see, won't we?

 

All we know for certain is the design team does try to address problems with the game and they are aware of the woes of Grey Knights players. Everything else is speculation until CA hits.

 

But it would be really surprising if they kept baby smite. I can kind of picture the mind of the designer who originally wrote the rules, thinking GK would be OP in the new meta before anyone had played the game. I'm sure this seemed like a good idea at the time.

[Holier Than Thou]

I’ve said it before every FAQ and before Chapter Approved 2017, and I’m going to say it again because I’ve not been wrong yet .

 

Grey Knights will be effectively ignored in Chapter Approved. Grey Knights will be effectively ignored in future FAQs. Grey Knights will be effectively ignored until Games Workshop eventually just stop supporting them. Everything they have done with Grey Knights since their 5th Edition Codex has stunk of a mix of misplaced bitterness and total lack of interest, like someone else said, it’s as if someone on the design team got stomped by GKs in the 4-5 month period they were very strong before 6th Edition launched and they’ve never got over it.

 

I would love to be proved wrong but I guarantee, Chapter Approved will come and go and Grey Knights will still be a stinking hot mess at the bottom of the pile and we’ll be getting told “Wait for the Spring FAQ, Games Workshop will fix them then.”

 

Even look at Kill Team. Yes, our rules are more within the middle ground for that rather than right at the bottom, but look at the support we get. Kill Team Starter Box? No. Special Kill Team Dice? No. New Commander Figure? No, just a model from our bog standard box. Everything they do for us is the bare minimum.

[Beams]

I don't think anyone got a new commander.r they are all repackages.

[Holier Than Thou]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+1916896873

 

Here’s a link to the Commanders section of the GW website, you’ll see that there are specific Kill Team Commander sets with cards and what-not. You’ll also see that Grey Knights are not provided with an option. We get nothing.

[Icosiel]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+1916896873

 

Here’s a link to the Commanders section of the GW website, you’ll see that there are specific Kill Team Commander sets with cards and what-not. You’ll also see that Grey Knights are not provided with an option. We get nothing.

 

Yeah, but they only made boxes for eight factions. I'd hardly count that as a slight against Grey Knights.

[Holier Than Thou]

 

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/searchResults?N=3281529261+1916896873

Here’s a link to the Commanders section of the GW website, you’ll see that there are specific Kill Team Commander sets with cards and what-not. You’ll also see that Grey Knights are not provided with an option. We get nothing.

 

 

Yeah, but they only made boxes for eight factions. I'd hardly count that as a slight against Grey Knights.

It’s everything combined. Codex - dreadful copy-paste job. FAQs and Chapter Approved - Grey Knights constantly overlooked or further nerfed. Even something as stupid as Twin Plasma Cannons being more expensive than for anyone else yet never being amended. Start Collecting Sets for nearly every faction but not Grey Knights. Kill Team sets for several factions, but not Grey Knights. Even the Faction Focuses before 8th was released, Grey Knights got a single paragraph in the last one that they just squeezed 4 other factions in together.

 

Bare minimum every time.

[Trevak Dal]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bring back Matt Ward. He writes goofy CS Goto levels of fluff, but his codexes are powerful and functional. If we could have the 5th edition codex we would sodomize our enemies with the zeal only Slaanesh worshipers know.

 

Eldar/chaos eldar/yanari are great because Phil Kelly is still around being champion of the knife ears.

[Danarc]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bring back Matt Ward. He writes goofy CS Goto levels of fluff, but his codexes are powerful and functional. If we could have the 5th edition codex we would sodomize our enemies with the zeal only Slaanesh worshipers know.

Eldar/chaos eldar/yanari are great because Phil Kelly is still around being champion of the knife ears.

I strongly agree.

 

And I don’t want to believe in holier’s thesys, but the clues are quite clear.

[Corvus Fortis]

IDK, why GW fears GK to be powerful by a slightest bit. Why do they overestimate every unit for being a psyker? Like 5th edition GK were the worst thing that happened to 40k. And eldar let to have so much powerful stuff "just because they are mostly t3".

 

I really feel GK to be merged into another book at some point. And pray, it will be Inquisition, not Space Marines.

[techsoldaten]

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Bring back Matt Ward. He writes goofy CS Goto levels of fluff, but his codexes are powerful and functional. If we could have the 5th edition codex we would sodomize our enemies with the zeal only Slaanesh worshipers know.

Eldar/chaos eldar/yanari are great because Phil Kelly is still around being champion of the knife ears.

I strongly agree.

 

And I don’t want to believe in holier’s thesys, but the clues are quite clear.

 

 

We may be witnessing the first case of 40k related Munchausen syndrome by proxy happening right here in this forum.

[Trevak Dal]

Matt Wards books had power to them. To deny that is to deny reality. I would take power and dumb fluff than irrelevance.

[Shinkosh]

While I would love to see some power back in the Grey Knight, something that made us feel anything like what the fluff portrays them like, lets not all immediately be willing to make a deal with the devil just yet.

 

The last time that happened, Grey Knights ended up wearing Sisters of Battle like a fashion accessory.

[Holier Than Thou]

Why can’t we have both? Good rules and good fluff? It’s not hard.

[Chronos Darkhelmet]

But in any case, where should I sign to bargain good fluff and terrible rules with the worst BG ever and awesome power level? :D

[Corvus Fortis]

You can, at least, forge fluff of your own force as you wish. With rules that is more complicated...

[Captain Coolpants]

GK are dead.

[Panzer]

About as dead as Tyranids used to be and now they're back. ;)

[Corvus Fortis]

But Tyranids were not the most broken thing in the whole history of 40k and shouldn't be constantly nerfed to prevent them from becoming good accidentally!