STTAB Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 We'll, it'll be a thing for a bit, maybe forever. Probably not impossible to make a working list. Not the thread for complaining about it. There is a thread in the beta rules section for discussing the rule. My initial thoughts on a GK tactic that wouldn't be too terrible; I'm thinking you would need Draigo and a pile of Razorbacks with interceptors in each one for your drops. Interceptors can ride in rhinos/Razorbacks when most fast infantry can't. Turn 1 move up, shoot screens with autocanons, degrade big stuff with lascannons. Make space for a landing zone. Turn 2. Interceptors disembark and move up to 12" for some bolter shooting and charging, Draigo gates up to get as close as possible and reserves drop. Turn 3 your drops keep shooting, moving, chopping and your interceptors can stick with them if opponent castles or can shunt out to take on spread out units or objectives. What have you guys been thinking to make GK work? You do now have extra 2 command points for a battalion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Well, my groups trying to keep me playing, and the only thing I could think off was Interceptors in Razorbacks as well. Mix of Cheap THB Razors and the more expensive TLC for a bit of shooting. Stick 6 interceptors in a Razor, and have 15" first turn movement. Save any shunts for turn 2 onwards. Not a great list, and I'm still struggling trying to make it effective, and with this we're limited to three units of 6 Interceptors (/sigh) and have a harder time getting a Battalion, which is way more important now. So I donno. Edit; This is something I've just thrown together. Not Pure GK I know... Battalion Primaris Captain, MC Stalker Primaris LT, MC Stalker Scout x5 Scout x5 Scout x5 Dev x5, Cherub, HB x4 Outrider GMNDK, Sword, H Psy Interceptor x5 Interceptor x5 Interceptor x5 Razor THB Razor THB Razor TLC Supreme Command SC on Dawneagle SC on Dawneagle SC on Dawneagle SC in Allarus, Praetorian Plate The Allarus SC is only unit in Reserves, and should be able to DS into CC from enemy turn 1 off of a Dawneagle. Interceptors move up with Dawneagles, Scouts screen at the front and try to soak some Smites. Have access to Hellfire shells for a cheeky 2+ hit, 1d3 MW shot, twice in one round using the Cherub. BMNDK stomps up the board with Heed and Sanctuary for as long as possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danarc Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Since I read the first time the FAQ I was wondering about a working GK list. Till now the first list proposed miss CP. Interceptor can't be a good answer because their detachment gives us 1 CP. And we need CP especially now that tach army has 5 points for battalion and already had more CP then us. Nevertheless My idea is make a list (talking of a GK only list) with 2 or 3x venerable dread with GM or GMDK in cover and out of LOS (only one). spam of purgators with brocap 15 PAGK with draigo and interceptor. fill with razor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060398 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Which is directly contradicted by the recent SM FAQ entry. Oh GW. Perhaps GK *do* need a FAQ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 Lol. Just bought a 2nd hand scimitar jetbike for cheap, was thinking about modeling a PAGK with halberd to ride it as a counts as SC on Dawneagle... Either that or covert to Sammael on Sableclaw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060426 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 I don’t think the intention of GoI, da Jump, and other redeployment stratagems was to limit their use as a deep strike mechanic; rather I believe the FAQ blurb in question was only meaning to describe how they are affected in regards to moving and shooting modifiers, not treated outright as a deep strike deployment. It is almost frustratingly vague, and a simple FAQ update would fix it (cough, cough GW), but RAI/reasonable interpretation it doesn’t prevent DS outside our deployment zone. http://www.runekappel.com/Filer/figurer/IMG_3457.PNG Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060468 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danarc Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 EDIT: ninjed. Yes that is the screen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Mytre Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Doesn't actually say that they can be used as normal, might just mean that you can use the power to redeploy a unit back into your deployment zone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvus Fortis Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Okay, at least some good news. So what now? Draigo, 3xstrikes, 3xInterceptors, stormraven/razorbacks, venrdeads and some stuff in reserves to support this t2? Even less variation, even less effectiveness. I'm afraid, monoGK are officially dead if beta-rules confirmed as they are. The worst thing about all this is that GK needs a strong allied force, unlike, say, Custodes. In the end, instead of supporting GK, this allies are supported by GK. And, thanks to Daemonic incursion, they are useless against daemons. So why not to support this force by something better than GK? Playing gunline with razrorbacks is not worth it - we do not have reroll to wound, -1 to hit or 4++ like other powerful gunline lists. No cheap screen too. The only idea I come-up with is double stormraven with draigo gating to support it. At lest, 48 bolter shots can kill some screen. If you do not have turn 1, shake hands and go home. Maybe, gating land raider crusader has more value now? Take some acolytes and hide them to ensure you don't get a wipe. Put in paladins with falchions, banner, draigo. Try to hide landraider, if possible, or at least give it cover. Turn 1 gate it, make a hole in enemy screen. Turn 2 go out and charge. Will this work good? I doubt it. Just don't have any ideas how to work with a toolbox, that becomes more and more limited with every update. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danarc Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Doesn't actually say that they can be used as normal, might just mean that you can use the power to redeploy a unit back into your deployment zone. I disagree. The question wasn't Can I use that power or ability. Because of course that you can. That isn't a question. The question, even not explicit, was related to the applicability of the FAQ to the power and ability. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Its still directly contradicted by the SM auspex scan faq answer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helycon Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 It's still a win. You can get 4 units up the board very quickly now, which is great! Clear it for the T2 drop. GK are now one of the few armies with the capacity to have units within rapid fire range in T1. Please take it a something positive for a change! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted April 19, 2018 Author Share Posted April 19, 2018 Sorry @Helycon, I don't understand. Please explain? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060671 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 It's still a win. You can get 4 units up the board very quickly now, which is great! Clear it for the T2 drop. GK are now one of the few armies with the capacity to have units within rapid fire range in T1. Please take it a something positive for a change! The question isn't whether it's something good. The question is whether we can believe that facebook answer since it contradicts an official answer in the just released FAQ to a related question. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helycon Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Sorry @Helycon, I don't understand. Please explain?It seems like they're telling us, that you can use Gate of Infinity and Shunt to displace just outside of 9" of enemy models. Which means that 3 units of Interceptors can Shunt close to the enemy, and Gate of Infinity can do the same with a 4th unit. That's pretty great compared to other armies. I do agree it would be nice if that could be added to the beta rule though. Since it's still beta, it doesn't belong in the FAQ just yet. I'll check which auspex scan comment you're referring too though. May have missed that. Edit: I'm not sure how it contradicts it? It just states two situations when you can use it. One is before the battle' actually starts. You can't use it then. In any other case, you can. It just clarifies it doesn't just work when coming in from reserves/teleportariums/manta strike/webway portals etc., but also when displacing. This just happens in a different turn. Doesn't seem vague to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060699 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Auspex scan effects reinforcements. It confirms that using teleport homers or redeploying is reinforcements. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helycon Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Auspex scan effects reinforcements. It confirms that using teleport homers or redeploying is reinforcements. I'll agree that it's a wording issue, yes. It does make sense though, since it really is just units appearing there. They take some time materialising, and that's the scan doing its job. Doesn't matter where they come from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Auspex scan effects reinforcements. It confirms that using teleport homers or redeploying is reinforcements. I'll agree that it's a wording issue, yes. It does make sense though, since it really is just units appearing there. They take some time materialising, and that's the scan doing its job. Doesn't matter where they come from. That's the fluff explanation, yes. Doesn't help at all when trying to figure out rules tho. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5060967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Mytre Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Was posted on dakka, apparently on the 40k FB page but got deleted: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1530/727042.page#9939700 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5061399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 No worries, it didn't get deleted: https://www.facebook.com/1575682476085719/photos/a.1576243776029589.1073741828.1575682476085719/2013246645662631/?type=3&theater Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5061458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TauFish Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 If DaJump works, then do does Gate. GK finally get a buff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5061530 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 If DaJump works, then do does Gate. GK finally get a buff Yes Shunt and Gate are good to go. Between getting an exclusion clause for Smite and this I'd say GK came out of the Big FAQ relatively unscathed. As relative power is all that really matters that puts them in a marginally better position. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5061562 Share on other sites More sharing options...
STTAB Posted April 20, 2018 Author Share Posted April 20, 2018 That is good news. I only completed 22 interceptors and voldus before I changed tac from mono GK to GK and Dark Angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5061589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweetcurse Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 Feels less like a beta rule and more like easing us into a bad change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5061617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waking Dreamer Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 We'll need builds that can have half the army's power level survive Turn 1 enemy shooting. Strong gunline armies look to become stronger since they don't have to worry as much against alpha-strikes anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/346399-how-to-make-gk-work-with-beta-ds-rule/#findComment-5061856 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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