How to make GK work with Beta DS rule

[STTAB]

I don't think that GW will drop the concept of the beta DS rule, but I'm sure it'll be scaled back. Changing it to the player that goes first means they save face on the rule but balances going first/second.

 

I'd bet money that's how it'll go.

[Panzer]

I assume they'll do something like increasing the range of turn 1 deep strikes to more than 12" instead of having to drop in your own deployment zone. That would reduce alpha strikes a lot due many dropped units having a rapid fire range of 12" and not being able to even declare a charge against a unit more than 12" away but it wouldn't be as restrictive as the current form of the beta rule.

It would still be quite a nerf to armies like GK and BA tho.

[Bartali]

I kind of like what TTT stated they would do. 30 Inceptors Stavex1, double swords x9 they jump first turn and then you gate in a GMNDK up with First to the Fray. Going to be running that with two Fire Raptors I think. Tons of anti-chaff/horde with 30 storm bolters and the four quad heavy bolters from the Fire Raptors. Should make short work of most armies. Then you run the GMNDK with two of the psilencer cannon weapons for 24 more bolter profile shots and you can drop the stratagem to make it S5/-1/1 if necessary.

 

The problem with this of course is not getting shot to bits turn 1 if going second. I'm not sure if Interceptors are the way forward - you're paying more points again for a T4 1W 3+ body. I've seen some people suggest putting them in Rhinos but then that of course ups the cost further.

[Danarc]

Exactly. This is the problem. Now we have to pay more (750 points only the interceptors) and have less CP (1 instead of 4) to make the same suboptimal (but still the only one) tactics we had. This is not balance unfortunately. I think that this can't be the way, and we have to find another one to make GK work again. 

[kronapaints]

Hi all, new GK player.

 

I'm trying to build a 2000pt list with 3x 5-Man Strikes and 3x 5-Man Interceptors, BroCap, Draigo, GMNDK and 2x Lasbacks. 

 

Now we're trying to make GK work with Beta Strike rules, we're limited in elite slots. I've got space for a 5-Man Paladin squad or a Doomglaive...what would you guys take?

[Danarc]

Which kind of strategy would you use?

[kronapaints]

Which kind of strategy would you use?

 

Brocap, Interceptors, Strikes, Lasbacks start on the board in LOS if going first, in cover if going second. Draigo, GMNDK and potentially Pallys in the Warp/Teleport Strike.

 

Shunt Interceptors to key objectives and move up Strikes in Lasbacks. Gate Brocap to most key objective/where his buff bubble is most effective, maybe load up 2 Interceptor squads on less important objectives to draw the enemy so that they might expose a weak spot or over-extend and lose any mutual support. A feint, if you will . Deepstrike Dragio, GMNDK and Pallys turn 2 on enemy's weakest flank or where Interceptors/Strikes in Lasbacks have cleared chaff/screening for a decent landing zone.

 

I'd basically use the Doomglaive in the same way as the Pallys, really I'm just wondering what people's experiences are in terms of Doomglaive's efficiency and durability compared to Pallys. I know Doomglaives can't teleport strike but can be Gated but potentially I'd use a CP to teleport it in with Draigo and the GMNDK.

[Bartali]

Exactly. This is the problem. Now we have to pay more (750 points only the interceptors) and have less CP (1 instead of 4) to make the same suboptimal (but still the only one) tactics we had. This is not balance unfortunately. I think that this can't be the way, and we have to find another one to make GK work again. 

 

I think I'm going to stick with a battalion. Double GMNDKs, Strikes in Razors, 5-10 Interceptors etc. I'll probably get away with it in my meta but it's not something I'd dare take to a tournament

[Aothaine]

 

I think I'm going to stick with a battalion. Double GMNDKs, Strikes in Razors, 5-10 Interceptors etc. I'll probably get away with it in my meta but it's not something I'd dare take to a tournament

 

 

Just keep in mind that Interceptors that start on the board can use their shunt to get with 9" on the first turn. 

 

 

 

Sadly I don't think you can take two of the same weapon on a GMNDK, it states "This model may take up to two different weapons from the following:".

Would be cool though

 

 

Ohh dang. Thanks for the update. I almost don't want to use a GMNDK now. I wonder if a GM with Stormshield would be better to use here. having the 3++ save might actually be better going forward. I'll have to check into the codex later tonight.

 

 

Exactly. This is the problem. Now we have to pay more (750 points only the interceptors) and have less CP (1 instead of 4) to make the same suboptimal (but still the only one) tactics we had. This is not balance unfortunately. I think that this can't be the way, and we have to find another one to make GK work again. 

 

I'm really liking Rhinos. Take three Terminator squads and put them in orbit, take three Interceptor squads (10-man) and shunt them forward first turn, GM w/ Storm shield or GMNDK to gate up the board with the Interceptors. Let the Interceptors do their work and drop in with the terminators to rough up the juicy insides and cap objectives. You can easily fit this into a Battalion and get 8 command points. Pretty decent imho. 

[Helycon]

 

 

 

I think I'm going to stick with a battalion. Double GMNDKs, Strikes in Razors, 5-10 Interceptors etc. I'll probably get away with it in my meta but it's not something I'd dare take to a tournament

 

Just keep in mind that Interceptors that start on the board can use their shunt to get with 9" on the first turn.

 

 

Sadly I don't think you can take two of the same weapon on a GMNDK, it states "This model may take up to two different weapons from the following:".

Would be cool though

 

Ohh dang. Thanks for the update. I almost don't want to use a GMNDK now. I wonder if a GM with Stormshield would be better to use here. having the 3++ save might actually be better going forward. I'll have to check into the codex later tonight.

 

Exactly. This is the problem. Now we have to pay more (750 points only the interceptors) and have less CP (1 instead of 4) to make the same suboptimal (but still the only one) tactics we had. This is not balance unfortunately. I think that this can't be the way, and we have to find another one to make GK work again.

I'm really liking Rhinos. Take three Terminator squads and put them in orbit, take three Interceptor squads (10-man) and shunt them forward first turn, GM w/ Storm shield or GMNDK to gate up the board with the Interceptors. Let the Interceptors do their work and drop in with the terminators to rough up the juicy insides and cap objectives. You can easily fit this into a Battalion and get 8 command points. Pretty decent imho.

Grand Masters aren't allowed a Stormshield. Only Draigo has one, or an Index Librarian.

[Soder]

No stormshields for GKs :(

Only way to get a 3++ is by using the sanctuary psychic power or the 2CP stratagem Heed the Prognosticars (which is technically a +1 to your saving throw)

 

Edit: Lol you beat me to it!

[Aothaine]

 

Grand Masters aren't allowed a Stormshield. Only Draigo has one, or an Index Librarian.

 

 

No stormshields for GKs

Only way to get a 3++ is by using the sanctuary psychic power or the 2CP stratagem Heed the Prognosticars

 

Edit: Lol you beat me to it!

 

Good lord I have a lot to learn about Grey Knights. That is just silly that the GM cannot take a storm shield. They both just have a 4+ invlun. Well.. there is almost zero reason not to take the GMNDK now. Goodness. Well, unless you're running Draigo.

[sirk]

I think DS strategy is not viable anymore. With just a +1 on starting roll and no guarantee to go first we can't leave too much in reserve and eating two full fire phases, and I think Interceptors in bulk are just too expensive for what they bring.

The strategy I'm testing is trying to maximize Gate, doing so by porting the largest amount of points in a strategic position for firing and being a melee threat next turn.

I'm playing

Battalion

- GM in dreadknight
- GM
- 5 strikes
- 7 termies
- 6 termies
- hurrincanes land raider

Vanguard (space marine)
- techmarine
- 3 venerable lascannon/autocannon dread

Gameplan is offer only hard targets on turn1 while doing a still relevant fire phase. 7 termies + GM inside LR gated in the best position, dreadknight full boosted on saves, dreaddies as far away as possible, possibly in cover with techmarine, strikes hidden somewhere, other termies in DS.
Usually LR explodes turn 1 but the unit inside manages to stay relevant next turn, together with termies in DS.

I've played it a couple of times, both times spending 5-7 command points just to boost first turn fire (at least 2 on LR, 2 on dreadknight for +1S/-1AP, 1 on venerables reroll). It's far below the previous alpha strategy but it kinda worked until now. I'm open to ideas, critics and suggestions.

[Panzer]

Mass Inceptors might not the way to go but I still think at least one bigger unit is useful to cover some ground turn 1.

[STTAB]

Ok.

 

outrider;

 

Draigo

 

5 interceptors

5 interceptors

10 interceptors

 

2 apothecary w/hammer

 

Airwing;

Storm hawk interceptor

2 storm raven

 

Battalion; (militarism tempestus)

 

Tempestor Prime. Warlord, Master of command, relic, laurels.

 

Tempestor prime. Relic Kurovs squilla

 

5 scions

5 scions

5 scions

 

Flyers plus Draigo start on field. Interceptors plus apothecaries in ravens.

 

All scions in reserve. Kurovs squilla does not need to be on the board to work (grand strategist does)

 

If one drops, the interceptors can still shunt and the apothecary is protected by being a charachter.

 

Turn 1, all flyers move as close as possible to enemy lines and shoot. Draigo gates and gives rerolls.

 

Turn 2 the interceptors disembark 3", move 12", shoot (could position for charachter kill), charge and tie up backfield stuff. Apothecaries try to get to tanky things, Draigo moves and charges.

 

No need for re-roll charges since you are closing the distance turn 1.

 

Interceptors get to keep their shunt for a big reposition later.

 

Scions drop where needed, either offensively or for objectives. Laurels of command allows order stacking which can make them dangerous. Warlord can stay in reserves to protect him and still get CP recycling.

 

I have it as 1759 point GK and the rest in scions. Plan really needs first turn or both/one raven to survive going second. I know it won't fit for the mono guys but the scions are essential for CP. I like the idea a f slingshoting the interceptors through the lines as an assassination force.

[jeffersonian000]

I don’t like that the teleporting supersoldier army starts on the board while the merely human shock troops grav-shute in. Thematically it should be reversed. Damnit GW for F’ing even that up. /sad face

 

SJ

[Corvus Fortis]

It's far below the previous alpha strategy but it kinda worked until now. 

 

 

If you managed to do something with fielding GK Terminators in a Land Raider, you've must played in a superfriendly meta. Idk, what you played against, but even mediocre lists has to deal with this relatively easy. Many lists can both kill\cripple LR and what was in it pretty easily.

 

Turn 1, all flyers move as close as possible to enemy lines and shoot. Draigo gates and gives rerolls.

 

 

And if you don't have the first turn? If SRs are down, you are not going anywhere. Charge after shunt will be unreliable. And if you lose 700 pts of your list turn 1, everything else will go down fast.  And there are still a lot of armies with Auspex Scan-type abilities.

 

The very fact that GK now forced to take 15-25 interceptors shows that FAQ doesn't work right. 

[Danarc]

 

The very fact that GK now forced to take 15-25 interceptors shows that FAQ doesn't work right. 

 

Even 15-25 interceptors don't work right. :(

[STTAB]

Yup. Not great but it's the best I can think of to stick to the way I want to play, fast and mobile. Could drop the stormhawk, apothecaries and run 2*8 man interceptor and 1*7 man interceptors in 3 storm ravens.

 

I really like the stormraven slingshoting the interceptors. A rhino could do similar, moving 12, smokescreen plus D6 advance, next turn disembark 3 and move 12.

 

On turn 2 the interceptors could have covered 27+D6" to get behind enemy lines.

*above is for 2*8 and 1*7 in 3 ravens.

[STTAB]

Also, if you are going 2 or 3 storm ravens then the sky shield landing pad might be a good idea for the 5++. Would 3 fit?

[Aothaine]

Going with flyers in GK is really really risky and a bad idea imho. We are already an elite army. Crippling it with flyer units doesn't help at all. If you really want to get into the enemy lines first turn just run the following:

 

GMNDK (First to the Fray with Gate)

3 units of 10 man Interceptors

 

This comes out to just over 1000 points. Then you fill the rest of the list with 2 GMNDKs, three 5-man strike squads and 1-3 Dreadnoughts. It will be tight. You might only get two dreadnoughts in. Also, take the Doomglaive Dreadnoughts from FW, or venerable Dreads with Lascannons + Fist or double autocannons.

 

Edit: I am not sure if the Venerable Dread can take double autocannons or a lascannon lol! I have not even considered it yet in most of my lists. You could also think about taking apothecaries with hammers... but meh... they don't really fit in this list imho. The dreadnoughts will help create more targets for your opponent's anti-tank and ensure either GMNDKs or dreadnoughts reach their lines.

[Helycon]

Going with flyers in GK is really really risky and a bad idea imho. We are already an elite army. Crippling it with flyer units doesn't help at all. If you really want to get into the enemy lines first turn just run the following:

 

GMNDK (First to the Fray with Gate)

3 units of 10 man Interceptors

 

This comes out to just over 1000 points. Then you fill the rest of the list with 2 GMNDKs, three 5-man strike squads and 1-3 Dreadnoughts. It will be tight. You might only get two dreadnoughts in. Also, take the Doomglaive Dreadnoughts from FW, or venerable Dreads with Lascannons + Fist or double autocannons.

 

Edit: I am not sure if the Venerable Dread can take double autocannons or a lascannon lol! I have not even considered it yet in most of my lists. You could also think about taking apothecaries with hammers... but meh... they don't really fit in this list imho. The dreadnoughts will help create more targets for your opponent's anti-tank and ensure either GMNDKs or dreadnoughts reach their lines.

FW Dreads need a delivery system. The best one is...a Stormraven. So there is that ;) . Since they're amazing in CC, as they don't get a penalty to hit with their weapon, you want them there as soon as possible. A Stormraven isn't a bad investment either. Their shooting is amazing and they can clear a dropzone with ease. Or you can equip them anti tank. Whatever works for you. Their main issue is, that your opponent will focus the crap out of them, not more so due to being unable to DS, leaving those GMNDK far away or in reserve. That's generally why people recommend getting more of them, to increase the threats. If you go first, they can wreak havoc though!

 

Most people go with Vendread with twin las and Missle Launcher for a backline beasty. They can wreck stuff with Astral Aim. You CAN still take a dread with two twin autocannons, but it's an index option, so they don't get psychic powers, which is a loss to the codex version you simply don't want as GK. 

 

Apothecaries fit in a lot of lists, they're just brilliant! Healing Draigo or Voldus is just fantastic. Having just the one is easy to fit into a list, since they're not THAT expensive. 

[Danarc]

Going with flyers in GK is really really risky and a bad idea imho. We are already an elite army. Crippling it with flyer units doesn't help at all. If you really want to get into the enemy lines first turn just run the following:

 

GMNDK (First to the Fray with Gate)

3 units of 10 man Interceptors

 

This comes out to just over 1000 points. Then you fill the rest of the list with 2 GMNDKs, three 5-man strike squads and 1-3 Dreadnoughts. It will be tight. You might only get two dreadnoughts in. Also, take the Doomglaive Dreadnoughts from FW, or venerable Dreads with Lascannons + Fist or double autocannons.

 

Edit: I am not sure if the Venerable Dread can take double autocannons or a lascannon lol! I have not even considered it yet in most of my lists. You could also think about taking apothecaries with hammers... but meh... they don't really fit in this list imho. The dreadnoughts will help create more targets for your opponent's anti-tank and ensure either GMNDKs or dreadnoughts reach their lines.

With this kind of list there is no way to win. 1000 points on PA and only one GMDK (without sanctuary?) is the best way to loose all of them turn 1.

We have to think about a different type of lists.

[Corvus Fortis]

3 stormravens will not help. With 1k points invested just in them, you will be, most likely, losing on maelstrom. And a threat of being wiped because of FAQ Sudden Death. Any army now has good antivehicle. Our only unit that can stand heavy shooting is GMNDK. I used to bring 2 GMNDK and SR so my opponent cannot kill them all. And if they don't kill GMNDK they pretty much can wipe out all his army on their own. But now, because you cannot heed+sanctuary turn 1, GMNDK become way more vulnerable. 

 

By the way, new rule that says you lose all effects on units that "teleports" in any way affects Heed the Prognosticars too? The FAQ is only about modifying characteristics but HtP increses only roll itself. What do you think?

[Helycon]

3 stormravens will not help. With 1k points invested just in them, you will be, most likely, losing on maelstrom. And a threat of being wiped because of FAQ Sudden Death. Any army now has good antivehicle. Our only unit that can stand heavy shooting is GMNDK. I used to bring 2 GMNDK and SR so my opponent cannot kill them all. And if they don't kill GMNDK they pretty much can wipe out all his army on their own. But now, because you cannot heed+sanctuary turn 1, GMNDK become way more vulnerable.

 

By the way, new rule that says you lose all effects on units that "teleports" in any way affects Heed the Prognosticars too? The FAQ is only about modifying characteristics but HtP increses only roll itself. What do you think?

3 Stormravens is not as easily dealt with for most armies. They will generally die when you take them alone, but stripping that many wounds at -1 to hit and T7 is not happening very often. They have a massive threatrange and with Hurricane Bolters you can easily clear for drops. Take some anti tank to kill those dangerous units and make sure they can't simply kill the remaining ravens as easy. If you use PAGK inside of them, they won't die. If they kill one of them, they spill their guts, so boots on the ground will rarely be an issue, unless you miss unloading them.

 

Stop seeing bears know the road all the bloody time and just play some games!