Thoughts on Black Templars changes over the years

[Dark_Jober]

Greetings brothers!

Now with 8th Edition I started to buy, build and paint some Black Templars again, so I'm reading many fluff, new and old, and I have some questions for the veterans...

 

My main sources are Armageddon, Black Templars' codex and the C:SM.

I didn't read the BT's novels, but I read some pieces in wikis and forums. I will read the books if I can find them in Spanish and if I have time for reading!

 

I don't want to talk about the brutal changes in our fluff, I want to talk about some details I found in the units and try to find some answers.

 

1) Codex Armageddon: Neophytes were included in Crusader Squads and Bikes Squads, so we had the Tactical and Biker Squad with our own flavour. Nice. In the other hand, Assault Squads couldn't recruit Neophytes, because their role is really dangerous.

Okay, we rolled the Scouts and Scout Bikes Squads into "Crusader Squads" (afoot and "mounted" versions).

 

When the codex: BT was released the Neophyte Bikers were suddenly removed...

What were your thoughts in that moment? Was it a bad change? Did they watch battle? or were they removed because they were useless?

 

2) Codex Black Templars: High Marshal Hellbrecht's Retinue. (pag44)

A command squad with Initiates, it is clear that they are veterans but no Sword Brothers (pag33), that can be confirmed by reading the entry and comparing with the other Elite options (all named with "Sword Brethern" title).

 

Then, in the High Marshal's rules, he allows to take up to 5 Neophytes in the Command Squad, and one of them can be upgraded to Standard Bearer and carrying the Fighting Company Banner.

 

That unit seems rare, because the veterans (not SB) can fight alongside their Neos, but... an Apotecary, the Company Champion, the Sergeant... did they have neophytes? They are not SB but they aren't (normal) Initiates.

Did the BT players use this squad configuration? Was it a bad change when the unit disappeared when we were rolled into Vainilla codex?

 

3) When first time rolled into the Vainilla Codex, Neophytes (Crusader Squads) suddenly learned how to use a Holy Bolter... From Shotgun or Bolt Pistol+CCW, to use the always loyal Bolter. What do you think about that? Was it an Heresy or was it well accepted by BT's players?

In this point I'm not talking about Neophyte Squads (Scouts Squads), that is a long history.

 

4) Codex Black Templars: White shoulder pad with Red Trim is marked as "Assault Squad" (pag50), but then this scheme can be found in the Bikers and Attack Bikers. But not in Land Speeders...

Many times I think about the red trim... if BT organization is much more flexible than Codex Astartes' one... why those Initiates were separated with a colour? They must be assigned to a squad or mini-fighting force, and then repainting their shoulder pad... that made me think about:

"Assault Black Templars" could be similar to DA's Ravenwing, and Sword Brethern could be the equivalent to Deathwing...

 

 

Thanks for reading!

 

[redmapa]

I never used the Neophyte in Helbrecht's command squad because I dislike the current Scout model and I have never heard of anyone using it, it was an expensive unit to begin with so I dont think anyone did. 

 

I think something to keep in mind for all these questions is that fluff tends to have a lot inconsistencies and that includes paint schemes, I mean if you look at our old codex only Command Squads had Sergeants despite the overall leader of the Crusade being right next to him, it was a bit silly in my opinion.

 

Regarding our shoulder pad colors I think the old version was a bit incomplete because as you said there are a lot of other units that are in a similar role as Assault marines but only they get a special marking, I think the current SM codex made that a bit more uniform where the "Close Support" elements are red trim/white pad and that covers all units whose role is to support advancing elements like Land Speeders, bikes or assault marines.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The Neophyte Bolter thing may just have been because they were so rare a model. Pre-plastic scouts there were only two variant poses of scout miniature with boltguns. Literally two. Compared to various amounts of the others.

[Canadian_F_H]

Pretty sure neophytes could take bolters in codex armageddon.

 

Also the biker crusader squad was a cool idea.

 

The fact that we had power weapons and storm shields in our assault squads at armageddon was really cool to imo.

[Dark_Jober]

Regarding our shoulder pad colors I think the old version was a bit incomplete because as you said there are a lot of other units that are in a similar role as Assault marines but only they get a special marking, I think the current SM codex made that a bit more uniform where the "Close Support" elements are red trim/white pad and that covers all units whose role is to support advancing elements like Land Speeders, bikes or assault marines.

 

Yeah, "Close Support" category is nice, because it is easier to identify the units, Reivers are Elite instead of Fast Attack but it is coherent painting them as "Assault", because they are "Close Support". So I will be painting my Inceptors and Reivers with red trims.

I think Aggressors could be Close Support, but they are tagged as "Fire Support", so no red trim for them.

 

 

 

Pretty sure neophytes could take bolters in codex armageddon.

 

Also the biker crusader squad was a cool idea.

 

The fact that we had power weapons and storm shields in our assault squads at armageddon was really cool to imo.

Nope, Neophytes could only take Bolt Pistol and CCW or Shotgun, no bolter for them in Armageddon.

 

I really like the Biker Crusader Squad idea, the problem is that if we recover that unit, it will be a normal bike squad, so we should buy the first 3 Initiates and then adding neos... I'm not sure if anyone is running medium size squads, or only deploying 3-4 bikes.

 

Storm shields in assault marines seem a nice addition, maybe the first generation of "Vanguard Vets"?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

My fire support marines have black trim, one red pad, one black pad and white crosses. The fluff is they are initiates who have chosen to specialise in heavy weapons deployment and have therefore joined the Longbow Brethren.

[Dark_Jober]

My fire support marines have black trim, one red pad, one black pad and white crosses. The fluff is they are initiates who have chosen to specialise in heavy weapons deployment and have therefore joined the Longbow Brethren.

 

Really interesting.

I'm using one Devastator Squad, so I assembled one "Dev Sargeant" with Signum (I want to respect the WYSIWYG), I painted it as a SB and I say he was so skilled in their initiate stage in the FauxDevs squads that when he was rised to SB was selected for  commanding the best Initiates equipped with the best heavy weapons as a specialized unit... maybe he prefers to use his chainsword, but his duty is commanding my most skilled gunners... and I really love them.

[Sete]

Games Workshop FB page just shared a "Show us your Warlord" post.

 

Funny thing is the 3 warlords they show is Yarrick, Ghazzy, and Helbrecth.

 

This summer an Armaggedon Omnibus is going to be released aswell.

 

I might be reading way too much into it...

But we have that Primaris Lieutenant fighting a khorne Daemon artwork, Helbrecth and Grimaldus have new artwork...

[Honda]

This summer an Armaggedon Omnibus is going to be released as well.

 

 

What's this supposed to be about?

[AlmightyWalrus]

The cheeky Brother in me wants to respond with "Armageddon".  

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

My fire support marines have black trim, one red pad, one black pad and white crosses. The fluff is they are initiates who have chosen to specialise in heavy weapons deployment and have therefore joined the Longbow Brethren.

 

Really interesting.

I'm using one Devastator Squad, so I assembled one "Dev Sargeant" with Signum (I want to respect the WYSIWYG), I painted it as a SB and I say he was so skilled in their initiate stage in the FauxDevs squads that when he was rised to SB was selected for  commanding the best Initiates equipped with the best heavy weapons as a specialized unit... maybe he prefers to use his chainsword, but his duty is commanding my most skilled gunners... and I really love them.

 

 

My 'Sergeants are still painted as Sword Brethren, the whole plan means I can mix and match my models really easily, so the Sword Brethren are all painted alike, the regular initiates painted alike and the Heavy Weapons alike, that way each squad just combines the elements in any way I want. So I can run 4 Longbow Marines and a Sword Brother as a Devastator Squad, or a 3 initiates, 1 Longbow and 1 Sword Brother as  MSU shooty crusader squad, I even sometimes experiment with Devastator Squads without all 4 heavy weapons to have heavier MSUs.

[Sete]

 

This summer an Armaggedon Omnibus is going to be released as well.

 

What's this supposed to be about?

August black library Armaggedon omnibus, stories about the 3rd war of Armaggedon.

 

War for Armaggedon

 

Space Marines from multiple Chapters unite alongside Titan Legions and the Astra Militarum to defend the world of Armageddon from ork warlord Ghazghkull Thraka.

 

In the bleak 41st millennium, the planet Armageddon is on the cusp of annihilation. The strategically vital hive world has captured the attention of infamous ork warlord Ghazghkull Thraka, and when the Astra Militarum and whole Titan Legions prove unable to halt the invasion, it is feared that both the planet and the wider sector will be lost to the greenskins. But the Imperium refuses to succumb and unleashes the Space Marines - genetically engineered warriors who thirst for naught but blood and victory. But can even this alliance of mankind's greatest warriors hope to turn the tide against Ghazghkull and his endless ork horde? This high-octane omnibus contains the classic novel Helsreach by New York Times bestselling author Aaron Dembski-Bowden, alongside four novellas and a host of short stories by some of Black Library best-known authors, including Guy Haley, Nick Kyme, Chris Wraight and Josh Reynolds.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

So, is this a compilation of existing material or new stories mixed in?

[Marshal_von_Speer]

 

 

This summer an Armaggedon Omnibus is going to be released as well.

What's this supposed to be about?

August black library Armaggedon omnibus, stories about the 3rd war of Armaggedon.

 

War for Armaggedon

 

Space Marines from multiple Chapters unite alongside Titan Legions and the Astra Militarum to defend the world of Armageddon from ork warlord Ghazghkull Thraka.

 

In the bleak 41st millennium, the planet Armageddon is on the cusp of annihilation. The strategically vital hive world has captured the attention of infamous ork warlord Ghazghkull Thraka, and when the Astra Militarum and whole Titan Legions prove unable to halt the invasion, it is feared that both the planet and the wider sector will be lost to the greenskins. But the Imperium refuses to succumb and unleashes the Space Marines - genetically engineered warriors who thirst for naught but blood and victory. But can even this alliance of mankind's greatest warriors hope to turn the tide against Ghazghkull and his endless ork horde? This high-octane omnibus contains the classic novel Helsreach by New York Times bestselling author Aaron Dembski-Bowden, alongside four novellas and a host of short stories by some of Black Library best-known authors, including Guy Haley, Nick Kyme, Chris Wraight and Josh Reynolds.

 

 

Isn't that a re-release? Pretty sure there already existed an "Armageddon Omnibus"